Whirling Steel Strike

[QuantumFX]

Why not Rapier? Boom, instant elven monk ranger finesse builds. Scimitar is strong enough already.

Funny you should mention that. In P&P elves can use this feat to use scimitars while centered. (Keith Baker seems to be a big fan of the LOTR movies.)

[Dartwick]

I have a whirling strike toon(14fighter/6monk) - its a negative skill - its only good for the roleplaying flair.

[Dexxaan]

The opportunity cost for taking the feat line is greater than the gain, resulting in a negative dps potential relative to other options.

Only if Pure. And Pure anything is a negative (90% of the time) in DDO.

It needs some love, allow scimmie users to stay centred with it as well. Still would like be pretty poor, throw in a small double strike chance and it would be half decent i guess.

Scimmy's.... Doublestrike....

For pure monks it stinks, but mix it up nicely and there is positive gain.

Here's someone who has done his homework.

Why not Rapier? Boom, instant elven monk ranger finesse builds. Scimitar is strong enough already.

Rapiers....



Well why not Khopeshes? Why Not Monkey-Grip and Dual GreatAxes?

Monks Ladies and Gentlemen....cannot and should not displace Fighters and Paladins and Barbarians in the Bladed-DPS department. Simple really.



.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

Is not straight weapon damage DPS w/e. Its the TOTAL package of which WSS can be used to increase your dps when built for survivability (saves, healing amp, evasion, centered bonuses).

8 Shintao Monk/12 Kensai II with AP and Feats to take full advantage of WSS and L-Swords and HW use vs 100% fort opponents very fun and effective in 1-19 and the Epics I did, GREAT To Hit and Surviability, NOT max melee DPS when compared to Horc Barb, Pure Monk, TWF Khop Kensai but shines when balanced with SELF-SUSTAINING SURVIVABILITY

2 Fighter/6 Paladin/12 Monk Shintao II, with the following highlights Earth Stance 3, Divine Sacrifice, Fist of Iron, Paladin Smite Evil, and Triple Earth Finishers all increase crit multiplier with L-Swords (and HW!) by x3, x4 and x5 (rare but enough to notice)
AND EXCELLENT SELF-SUSTAINING SURVIVABILITY

Yeah NOT max ****** THF Horc Barb DPS thats a given...But VIABLE with attention to details

[Missing_Minds]

Add to it, there are the occasion when you are dealing with an NPC that has slashing DR. Zombies come to mind. It has already been stated you can use the swords to be metal DR much earlier than you could as a pure monk (assuming shinto or just adamantine)

I know, you can use kama's, but the long sword would be better, let alone you'd also have better reach, and better burst crits.

Emm... that reminds me. Ranger may be getting some dervish traits soon with the changes, such that it allows for full str in the off hand. I expect new multi builds being done in this flavor after it gets released.

Feralthyrtiaq, I'm currently doing a 12/6/2 FvS/Paladin/Monk elf build taking advantage of both FvS religion and Elf racial longsword loving.
I still whip out handwraps to deal with skeletons, oozes, and rusties.

[Ravoc-DDO]

Only if Pure. And Pure anything is a negative (90% of the time) in DDO.

Actually, it already starts at 1 monk level. The lower attack speed, the half STR mod offhand and the absence of tod bursted rings alone makes wraps better dps. And then there's also unarmed abilities such as touch of death, stunning fist & quivering palm that makes Whirling Steel Strike a joke. Keep in mind that the line costs 2-3 feats. That's 2-3 feats that could be spent towards a much more useful build.

Well why not Khopeshes? Why Not Monkey-Grip and Dual GreatAxes?

Monks Ladies and Gentlemen....cannot and should not displace Fighters and Paladins and Barbarians in the Bladed-DPS department. Simple really.

That's hardly an argument anymore. They already "displaced" rangers with Zen Archery & 10k arrows, even though having mostly melee abilities. But that's another discussion.

[NaturalHazard]

That's hardly an argument anymore. They already "displaced" rangers with Zen Archery & 10k arrows, even though having mostly melee abilities. But that's another discussion.

Didnt they also do that earlier with crit raged barbarians and kensai's?

[Ravoc-DDO]

Add to it, there are the occasion when you are dealing with an NPC that has slashing DR. Zombies come to mind. It has already been stated you can use the swords to be metal DR much earlier than you could as a pure monk (assuming shinto or just adamantine)

I know, you can use kama's, but the long sword would be better, let alone you'd also have better reach, and better burst crits.

Zombies are the only mobs that have DR/slash and happen to be crit immune already. As such, the higher crit range of longswords is rendered moot. The extra burst effects won't fully compensate wrap advantages. (Don't bother mentioning weaken undead; taking out the new silver flame bow each time you meet a zombie to take of 20% fort and then swapping back isn't going to contribute to higher dps).

As for metal DR, you can find such wraps at L1, fully customizable to you needs thx to Cannith crafting.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

There are 2 camps of thought and many many shades of grey in between...

In one corner Max ENDGAME melee DPS via TWF Khopesh/HorcBarbESOS

and in the other corner

75 to 90ish% of Max Viable ENDGAME melee DPS and Synergies that increase Self-Sufficiency and Survivability in a many "real world" game circumstances.

Playstyle, Game Experience, Gear, Personal Preference, Party Composition (Guild, Static, Friends etc) teeters the totter one way or the other.

/shrugs

[Missing_Minds]

Zombies are the only mobs that have DR/slash and happen to be crit immune already. As such, the higher crit range of longswords is rendered moot. The extra burst effects won't fully compensate wrap advantages. (Don't bother mentioning weaken undead; taking out the new silver flame bow each time you meet a zombie to take of 20% fort and then swapping back isn't going to contribute to higher dps).

As for metal DR, you can find such wraps at L1, fully customizable to you needs thx to Cannith crafting.

Could have sworn something else besides zombies has dr/slashing honestly. But they have pretty high DR, esp at the higher levels it is better to whip out kamas unless you actually have some pretty sweet looted or Mabar handwraps.

As for crafting. Such a thing is possible for established players, but NOT for those new. Baring Devil Assault, I don't know of any place that drops craftable threaded wraps.
And if you are thinking of just adding metaline, that requires lvl 100 divine crafting and mystic bottles. So not F2P craftable.

[Aesop]

How about an additional bonus incentive for more pure monks...


Whenever a Monk with Whirling Steel Strike gains a bonus to their Unarmed Damage (ie at 4,8,12,16,20) they also gain a 1% Double Strike bonus with Long Swords.


also I reiterate my previous Elven Benefit suggestion that got lost at the bottom of the previous page

Well I made a suggestion a while back about Elven Racial Enhancements that would help WSS.

Now with the new Enhancement System coming this won't work as written but here was the gist of what was there



Aerenal Ascetic
Requires Whirling Steel Strike and Aerenal Weapon Mastery 1

1. lvl 4. 2AP. +1 Damage and +1 Ki per Critical with Longswords while Centered
2. lvl 7. 2AP. +1 Attack and +1% Double Strike Chance with Longswords while Centered
3. lvl 10. 2AP. +1 Damage and +1 Ki per Critical with Longswords while Centered
4. lvl 14. 2AP. +1 Attack and +1% Double Strike Chance with Longswords while Centered
5. lvl 17. 2AP. +1 Damage and +1 Ki per Critical with Longswords while Centered

total +2 Attack, +2% Double Strike, +3 Damage, +3 Ki on Critical

Aerenal Sword Master
Cost: 4AP
Requires: Aerenal Ascetic 5 , Character level 20
Benefit: 3% Double Strike chance with Long Swords and Off Hand Long Swords use full Strength Modifier for Damage



all told it would give the character full off hand damage with Long Swords +2 Attack +3 Damage (plus the normal Racial Weapon Enhancements for another +2 Attack and +2 Damage so +4 Attack and +5 Damage) +5% Double Strike and +3 Ki on Critical Hits


That really only helps Elves with the feat though.

Aesop