How are us nubs supposed to learn ?

[Vanquishedfo]

There are very few consumables in this game that are used so seldom it doesnt make sense to carry them all the time. Not sure what you were missing for "X" quest, but chances are your missing that for a whole bunch of quests.

Believe it or not, vets were not born with DDO quest information ingrained in their brains. They had to run a quest a few times as well before they "knew it".

The DDOWiki has pretty complete details on just about every quest int he game. What mobs to expect. Basic walk throughs. Worth a read.

there have been plenty of quests that I spent a rediculous amount of time in the first few times through. 300+ Minute Crucible comes to mind.....

Smeones got to swim through that? Thats impossible!

Whats sad is you say that without also explaing how **** poor that is from a content design perspective. No sane developer makes content with the idea oh first time it will be brutal but once they lnow it then its cake. Yet that describes DDO with disturbing accuracy. Unless your a child with no responsability outside of a few chores and schoolwork, or a troll in thier mothers basement then normally you dont sit down at the computer with more then an hour here or there to have some fun. No content in this game should ever be so time consuming that HOURS are the operative word when discussing potential time investment.

This ofcourse is what the crowed who condemns others with cries of oh you dont want challenge, you want easy loot etc dont grasp. Its never about anything else then time. My time must always equal what I want to do when its MY TIME. If I log into a lvl XX character I want to be able to go play any content in that lvl range solo or in group as my whim dictates, and recieve full experiance,loot, and a sense of progression for my time investment. Overly randomized loot, time intensive poorly designed and concieved challenge with high risk of instant failure, or worse beyond all measure a long time investment with a risk of complete failure and no gain is not a game, its a time sink. Games are about fun. Time Sinks are about wasiting your life.

So DDO stop being a time sink already and remember your roots. Pretty much any content that can be played through first time with no knowledge of the quest in under an hour is good challenge. Anything past that is a FAIL that needs to be reworked.

I just pray my latest investment to show support to turbine for the upcoming expansion doesnt proove to be a waste if the content is completely useless to me. epic 21-25 should be completely solable for a fresh lvl 20 with common chests loot on its max difficulty. anyone over geared should learn that overkill just means less challenge.

[ainmosni]

Whats sad is you say that without also explaing how **** poor that is from a content design perspective. No sane developer makes content with the idea oh first time it will be brutal but once they lnow it then its cake. Yet that describes DDO with disturbing accuracy.

disagree, i struggled learning content for a LONG time before certain quests became second nature. i learn content more easily now because my toons are better equipped to power through content, i have a more thorough understanding of game mechanics (and therefore know how to react to most situations even in new content), and run with better people, many with similar or better knowledge about the game. all that took time to develop. get better gear, learn the game, exchange ideas with others, crush content, rinse, repeat. and i play way too much to be healthy. for most people the learning curb to uberness takes years, some people will play for years and still never reach powergamer status. not saying that's a bad thing, they probably enjoy the game far more than i do.

[Neon_Budz]

epic 21-25 should be completely solable for a fresh lvl 20 with common chests loot on its max difficulty. anyone over geared should learn that overkill just means less challenge.

The reason that there are varying degrees of dungeon difficulty upon quest entrance is to provide an acceptable level of challenge to ALL players.

If as you propose, end game content was easily completable at its hardest settings by a solo toon levels below the actual quest level, then the entire game would be FUBAR.

Should a lvl 20 be able to solo a lvl 20 or lvl 21 quest on casual? Yes. Level 25? No. On Elite? Only the most well prepared and skilled players.

Elite difficulty settings do more than just raise the level of the quest. It also scales damage and mob numbers, trap DC and mob CR far above a comparable level quest on normal. While both may be a lvl 20... for example, a lvl 18 quest run on Elite to make it lvl 20 is more challenging than a level 20 quest run on normal. This is working as intended and provides the player base with needed incentives to perpetuate playability, offer continuing challenges between releases of new content.

[Infant]

Whats sad is you say that without also explaing how **** poor that is from a content design perspective. No sane developer makes content with the idea oh first time it will be brutal but once they lnow it then its cake. Yet that describes DDO with disturbing accuracy. Unless your a child with no responsability outside of a few chores and schoolwork, or a troll in thier mothers basement then normally you dont sit down at the computer with more then an hour here or there to have some fun. No content in this game should ever be so time consuming that HOURS are the operative word when discussing potential time investment.

This ofcourse is what the crowed who condemns others with cries of oh you dont want challenge, you want easy loot etc dont grasp. Its never about anything else then time. My time must always equal what I want to do when its MY TIME. If I log into a lvl XX character I want to be able to go play any content in that lvl range solo or in group as my whim dictates, and recieve full experiance,loot, and a sense of progression for my time investment. Overly randomized loot, time intensive poorly designed and concieved challenge with high risk of instant failure, or worse beyond all measure a long time investment with a risk of complete failure and no gain is not a game, its a time sink. Games are about fun. Time Sinks are about wasiting your life.

So DDO stop being a time sink already and remember your roots. Pretty much any content that can be played through first time with no knowledge of the quest in under an hour is good challenge. Anything past that is a FAIL that needs to be reworked.

I just pray my latest investment to show support to turbine for the upcoming expansion doesnt proove to be a waste if the content is completely useless to me. epic 21-25 should be completely solable for a fresh lvl 20 with common chests loot on its max difficulty. anyone over geared should learn that overkill just means less challenge.

This is your opinion. You should realize that there are plenty of people on these forums and in game who have quite the opposite opinion.

For example concerning this statement:

"epic 21-25 should be completely solable for a fresh lvl 20 with common chests loot on its max difficulty."

Many people would probably say: "epic 21-25 should be playable for a fresh lvl 20 with common chests loot on its 2nd lowest difficulty.", which is, IMHO, a much more reasonable approach.

Infant

[danotmano1998]

epic 21-25 should be completely solable for a fresh lvl 20 with common chests loot on its max difficulty. anyone over geared should learn that overkill just means less challenge.

Interesting opinion!
I couldn't disagree more.

Please re-read your quoted sentence above. You can't possibly be saying you want to solo epics at the highest possible difficulty with a newly capped character, can you??

[Bowser_Koopa]

So just to set the stage, I am against every "noob" "nub" "newb" "casual" "f2p'er" "casual vet" "powergamer" or whatever they call themselves feeling entitled to being "shown" everything in this game. And by entitled I mean ripping into myself or other people when they demand (not ask) that the vet crowd take time to show them a raid/quest when they have put zero effort into doing it themselves.

Now in addition to that let me say I am someone who if I see genuine interest and effort being put into something a quest/raid/build whatever I will generally help that person if they ask. And I am also someone who has asked for insight on things, but I never say "do it for me" I show I've tried, what I've tried why I tried it etc and then ask what am I missing here.

So on to the meat of the thread, how do noobs or whatever they call themselves learn. There are several ways, either try it yourself and potentially fail, join a group and let someone know it's your first time or your looking for advice on the quest, join the group say nothing but be very observant of the group or use the numerous resources for ddo to build a foundation for what you will eventually have as knowledge for the quest. DO NOT however expect that anyone will stop and teach you just because your new, some people don't want to teach and that is there choice some people are terrible at teaching and some are great. Also look to your guildmates that is what your officers and leaders are there for. But Bowser not everyone is in a guild, well that is your choice too.

So in conclusion learn however you yourself best learn, either by doing, by observing, by reading or by never learning and expecting others to do things for you. But do NOT expect that anyone has to show you or teach you anything. Be thankful to those people that DO write various guides and take their own time to make it easier for noobs, vets, elitist and everything in between.

Bowserkoopa,

Still glad not all bosses in this game wear a sign saying hit me here to win

[Orratti]

Whats sad is you say that without also explaing how **** poor that is from a content design perspective. No sane developer makes content with the idea oh first time it will be brutal but once they lnow it then its cake. Yet that describes DDO with disturbing accuracy. Unless your a child with no responsability outside of a few chores and schoolwork, or a troll in thier mothers basement then normally you dont sit down at the computer with more then an hour here or there to have some fun. No content in this game should ever be so time consuming that HOURS are the operative word when discussing potential time investment.

This ofcourse is what the crowed who condemns others with cries of oh you dont want challenge, you want easy loot etc dont grasp. Its never about anything else then time. My time must always equal what I want to do when its MY TIME. If I log into a lvl XX character I want to be able to go play any content in that lvl range solo or in group as my whim dictates, and recieve full experiance,loot, and a sense of progression for my time investment. Overly randomized loot, time intensive poorly designed and concieved challenge with high risk of instant failure, or worse beyond all measure a long time investment with a risk of complete failure and no gain is not a game, its a time sink. Games are about fun. Time Sinks are about wasiting your life.

So DDO stop being a time sink already and remember your roots. Pretty much any content that can be played through first time with no knowledge of the quest in under an hour is good challenge. Anything past that is a FAIL that needs to be reworked.

I just pray my latest investment to show support to turbine for the upcoming expansion doesnt proove to be a waste if the content is completely useless to me. epic 21-25 should be completely solable for a fresh lvl 20 with common chests loot on its max difficulty. anyone over geared should learn that overkill just means less challenge.

It appears that you probably wasted your money. When you say remember your roots do you mean d&d or video games? Either way what your saying is incorrect.

D&D is supposed to be challenging whether you play as a single character or several. DDO has different difficulties to offer challenge to either size of group now even scaled so any size party can theoretically do any difficulty but not as autowin. D&D was never supposed to be autowin.

Video games were never supposed to be autowin. While playing Ms Pacman one quarter wasn't intended to give you hours of easy enjoyable fun. In fact it took quarter after quarter after quarter while you ran through the same maps over and over to return to the point of previous failure where you got another opportunity to overcome that point to reach the next point of probable failure. Video games were intended to be frustrating and each quarter you dropped in was a chance to overcome that frustration to be met by another and at the end of spending all of that money your reward was to gain a 3 letter title on a top 10 score list showing how awesome you were at something with no real useful merit.

If the game were as easy as you seem to want you could buy vip for a month run, breeze your way through all of the material in the game gathering the loot you wanted and then wait without paying until the next content came out that you would overcome in a day and then complain that vip subs need to come out in daily doses, after all why should you have to pay for a whole month when you only need access for the day it takes to overcome the content.

[zwiebelring]

Whats sad is you say that without also explaing how **** poor that is from a content design perspective. No sane developer makes content with the idea oh first time it will be brutal but once they lnow it then its cake. Yet that describes DDO with disturbing accuracy. Unless your a child with no responsability outside of a few chores and schoolwork, or a troll in thier mothers basement then normally you dont sit down at the computer with more then an hour here or there to have some fun. No content in this game should ever be so time consuming that HOURS are the operative word when discussing potential time investment.

This ofcourse is what the crowed who condemns others with cries of oh you dont want challenge, you want easy loot etc dont grasp. Its never about anything else then time. My time must always equal what I want to do when its MY TIME. If I log into a lvl XX character I want to be able to go play any content in that lvl range solo or in group as my whim dictates, and recieve full experiance,loot, and a sense of progression for my time investment. Overly randomized loot, time intensive poorly designed and concieved challenge with high risk of instant failure, or worse beyond all measure a long time investment with a risk of complete failure and no gain is not a game, its a time sink. Games are about fun. Time Sinks are about wasiting your life.

So DDO stop being a time sink already and remember your roots. Pretty much any content that can be played through first time with no knowledge of the quest in under an hour is good challenge. Anything past that is a FAIL that needs to be reworked.

I just pray my latest investment to show support to turbine for the upcoming expansion doesnt proove to be a waste if the content is completely useless to me. epic 21-25 should be completely solable for a fresh lvl 20 with common chests loot on its max difficulty. anyone over geared should learn that overkill just means less challenge.

You can see gaming as a serious hobby though. And as it is in sportive activities (which can be anything if the platform and response is given in public) there are people who are better and people who aren't that good at it and people who do it for the funsies. For those we have casual difficulty and the option of forming a group, the true and original thought of DnD. You claim going back to the roots and call out soloing stuff. Soloing was an achievement back in the days which was amazing.

Soloing waterworks elite at level with xp penalty in your neck...he. Permanently cursed in the harbor, hopefully there was a (willing) lvl. 5 Cleric in a tavern you could ask for Remove Curse. The root of DnD are different classes and there unique features put together for success. Step by step the original spirit of DnD vanished out of DDO. You complain about difficulty as it is now but well it was harder. Way harder. So hard that many people stopped playing. Right now, there is a really good balancing for many styles of play.

DDO is NOT daddling around. There are far cheaper and better games for that. Sometimes it is easier to just try other games.