Death pen

[~Quilny]

Ok has anyone suggested yet that death pen should only effect the person that dies? I mean 1 person being dumb shouldn't effect everyone right? Why not the person that dies get the -10% and everyone else still be at flawless same with hire person whos hire dies gets the -5%. This is a socail game and I love groupign with people but its hit or miss. I feel like everyday im gambling am I goign to get a decent good or Horrible player. I just listed 3 options and 2 werent bad you would think odds would be on my side . Anyways sigh just a idea let me know what you guys think love the feed back even the negitive.

[Robert4818]

Ok has anyone suggested yet that death pen should only effect the person that dies? I mean 1 person being dumb shouldn't effect everyone right? Why not the person that dies get the -10% and everyone else still be at flawless same with hire person whos hire dies gets the -5%. This is a socail game and I love groupign with people but its hit or miss. I feel like everyday im gambling am I goign to get a decent good or Horrible player. I just listed 3 options and 2 werent bad you would think odds would be on my side . Anyways sigh just a idea let me know what you guys think love the feed back even the negitive.

And if I die because the healer refuses to heal, or heals poorly, why should I suffer a penalty and he keeps full xp?

This is a team game, and the team lives and dies on its teamwork.

[Asmodeus451]

Ok has anyone suggested yet that death pen should only effect the person that dies? I mean 1 person being dumb shouldn't effect everyone right? Why not the person that dies get the -10% and everyone else still be at flawless same with hire person whos hire dies gets the -5%. This is a socail game and I love groupign with people but its hit or miss. I feel like everyday im gambling am I goign to get a decent good or Horrible player. I just listed 3 options and 2 werent bad you would think odds would be on my side . Anyways sigh just a idea let me know what you guys think love the feed back even the negitive.

And if I die because the healer refuses to heal, or heals poorly, why should I suffer a penalty and he keeps full xp?

This is a team game, and the team lives and dies on its teamwork.

i can see wher both are coming from here, but i have to agree with Rob.

D&D, and by extension DDO, is a team game.

[Saravis]

To be honest I'd be fine with them removing it altogether. It's an unnecessary system that just leads to idiotic drama.

People can start viewing deaths as valiant sacrifices as opposed to dimwitted screw-ups.

[freekay]

It's not a penalty. It's a bonus. The XP report even states it as such.

People need to shift their paradigms from seeing things in such negative ways. 10%, even to a 3rd lifer is easily recouped. Now with bravery bonuses and elite streaks, not being awarded the 10% bonus is even more inconsequential.

[redspecter23]

It's not a penalty. It's a bonus. The XP report even states it as such.

People need to shift their paradigms from seeing things in such negative ways. 10%, even to a 3rd lifer is easily recouped. Now with bravery bonuses and elite streaks, not being awarded the 10% bonus is even more inconsequential.

Glass half empty or half full? It doesn't change how much is in the glass. Calling it a bonus or penalty is just arguing how it's worded. The point is you get less xp if someone dies. Some people think it's the end of the world to lose that xp. Others don't care so much. I personally don't like tying your gained xp to how a flawless run, but I can see why others like it.

[DavionFuxa]

I would hate to make it so that if I die I lose experience. What if I'm running the suicide mission? Those guys doing the Puzzle in Xorian Cipher for example usually have a far easier time of it then us guys down here getting our asses handed to us by the 3 named skeletons and boneshriekers. For that reason I think it should effect the group.

I also think that if your group flawlessly runs a quest you should get a bonus to experience. Just like if you run a quest without killing anything (or only killing one monster) or whatever else you might do. It gives over-achievers and power-levelers something to aim for when running their characters.

However, the game is also advancing to the point where there is a disconnect between new players and older players. I wouldn't be against it being removed or the bonus reduced for the simple reason of encouraging older players to party with newer players instead of not doing so because they may cost them an extra 10% experience.

[EnjoyTheJourney]

If the flawless bonus was tied exclusively to players, then you'd see more players dragging mobs to the rest of the team after they get in trouble, to save their own bonus, even if they do it at the expense of their teammates. You'd also see more griefing if letting a teammate die, or assisting in their death, did not also penalize all team members.

The OP was clearly made with good intentions, but the outcome would be perverse.

/unsigned

[~Quilny]

Ok so there is no perfect solution to any problem. Im becomign very aware of this as i grow older. However Instead of people learning helplessness because of this can't we take baby steps in the right direction? (learned helplessness Pych term)

I love how peeps always blame healers :S I play more than just heals btw my main toon is 3 lives away form completionist. I think it helps having played a healer to know Fortt healign amp dr ac are good things.

Im not askign for the world im asking to not be penalized for grouping with newer people who don't know everything yet thats all. It might be too much of a request and for that i am sorry.

[Robert4818]

Ok so there is no perfect solution to any problem. Im becomign very aware of this as i grow older. However Instead of people learning helplessness because of this can't we take baby steps in the right direction? (learned helplessness Pych term)

I love how peeps always blame healers :S I play more than just heals btw my main toon is 3 lives away form completionist. I think it helps having played a healer to know Fortt healign amp dr ac are good things.

Im not askign for the world im asking to not be penalized for grouping with newer people who don't know everything yet thats all. It might be too much of a request and for that i am sorry.

Not really blaming the healer, just pointing out that a death penalty usually isn't just the fault of one person.

[~Quilny]

sorry I know i am fightign a loosing battle but i cant help myself 4,378,500 is whata 3rd lifer needs so 10% of that is 437,800 Which you cna Imagine is a lot of quests to be run to make up for death pens. I also know it is not a pen but a Bonus you get for doing good. However once you have reached a certain point in the game it becomes expected. I have soloed and short manned alot because of this. I've also recieved tells from people asking to join or askign if there friend who is new can join which usually results in a pen. I don't want to be the bad guy by saying no you or you cannot come. It would be easier if they just did away with it or in my opinion FIX it. the peopel who say if I die everyone whould get pen are the people who like to take others down with them very very sad.

[Robert4818]

sorry I know i am fightign a loosing battle but i cant help myself 4,378,500 is whata 3rd lifer needs so 10% of that is 437,800 Which you cna Imagine is a lot of quests to be run to make up for death pens. I also know it is not a pen but a Bonus you get for doing good. However once you have reached a certain point in the game it becomes expected. I have soloed and short manned alot because of this. I've also recieved tells from people asking to join or askign if there friend who is new can join which usually results in a pen. I don't want to be the bad guy by saying no you or you cannot come. It would be easier if they just did away with it or in my opinion FIX it. the peopel who say if I die everyone whould get pen are the people who like to take others down with them very very sad.

Here's another example.

You are running a dungeon with a Rogue. He goes to disable the trap, and it blows up in his face.

Now, since the rogue failed his trap roll, everyone needs to try to navigate the trap. If someone fails that navigation they die.

So, why is it solely that person's fault because the rogue failed his trap roll?

If you are in a fight with a big boss, and your dps is using the wrong spells (for example, fireballs against a fire elemental). Now the guy isn't getting hurt fast enough, and the fighter dies because of the incompetence of the other caster. Once again, how is it the fighter's fault alone, when he died.

In the end, thats my point. DDO is a team sport, and yes, some people do die on their own, but more often than not there simply more to it than that.

[~Quilny]

Excuses are nails they are the nails that built the house of failure.

You cna make up all the examples you want but in the end its the players skill/build/choices that makes him live or die. Im not saying I never die and Im perfect. Im sayign people should get what they deserve.

[DavionFuxa]

Excuses are nails they are the nails that built the house of failure.

You cna make up all the examples you want but in the end its the players skill/build/choices that makes him live or die. Im not saying I never die and Im perfect. Im sayign people should get what they deserve.

The problem is, a players skill/build/choices can make his party mates die. This is a team game and a players choices don't just effect just himself.

[Talias006]

Excuse me while I lol all over that "excuses" tripe.

Really? "Excuses are nails..." and then "people should get what they deserve."

Be careful what you wish for.

[Robert4818]

Excuses are nails they are the nails that built the house of failure.

You cna make up all the examples you want but in the end its the players skill/build/choices that makes him live or die. Im not saying I never die and Im perfect. Im sayign people should get what they deserve.

And if a Rogue screws up a trap disable, and other people die because of it, then he should suffer that same punishment.

[Flavilandile]

Ok has anyone suggested yet that death pen should only effect the person that dies? .

Once upon a time the death penalty was a cumulative XP debt...
Once upon a time you could have up to +50% in quests if your party was several level below the quest level. ( cumulative with first time )
Once upon a time where wasn't the +10% bonus XP for no death.

All that has been removed in favor of the system we have now.

If you want to go back to the old system, I'm signing right now.
( as I find it way better than the Bravery thingie that makes everybody go elite when they know they can't do it )
Doing VON 3 with LVL 5/6 characters was fun, and even after 4/5 death you earned lots of XP.
Doing Tempest Spine at LVL 6/7 was even more fun. ( especially as not everybody had Feather fall )

if you want to change the way the 10% bonus XP for no death works, then not signed.
It's a bonus for the group to behave as a group, not an entitlement, put in to compensate the removal of the xp bonuses for doing quests way over your level.

[Meetch1972]

IMNSHO, If the death "penalty" bothers you so much, then only run with others who are similarly bothered by it. Don't run with first or second life hitch-hikers on your third life toon. Be elitist if you want to! Heck, solo elite streak if you're that good and want only one HP bar to watch.

If you don't want to be elitist, do what the rest of us do and take what comes.

There used to be more incentive not to die, but that was before I started (effective actual XP loss, anyone?) Ahh... mentioned in the above post.

The argument about losing 10% of all the xp up to the 4.3 million is flawed too - in that over all you'll probably only see a death in maybe half those runs. So more like 220k xp or 20 or so "ok" quests worth of "lost" xp - maximum... it's far more of an issue at the higher levels too.... edit: or is it?

[Uska]

no it shouldnt and it isnt a penalty its the loss of a bonus they are comepletely different things.

[Uska]

sorry I know i am fightign a loosing battle but i cant help myself 4,378,500 is whata 3rd lifer needs so 10% of that is 437,800 Which you cna Imagine is a lot of quests to be run to make up for death pens. I also know it is not a pen but a Bonus you get for doing good. However once you have reached a certain point in the game it becomes expected. I have soloed and short manned alot because of this. I've also recieved tells from people asking to join or askign if there friend who is new can join which usually results in a pen. I don't want to be the bad guy by saying no you or you cannot come. It would be easier if they just did away with it or in my opinion FIX it. the peopel who say if I die everyone whould get pen are the people who like to take others down with them very very sad.

Your using 10% of the total needed is a really really bad example and a complete falsehood and also takes all the wind out of the winds of your arguement.