Please, save some SP potions...

[Airgeadlam]

...on your non casting toons, so you can reimburse at least once in a while to the people healing your raid (and even to some casters as well).

It's sad when a raid is done and people are too quick to loot and ask for named items and what not, but noone asks for a pot count. There's no need to bank 50+ potions on your casters, pass some to melee and be nice to those blue bars.

I'm writing this right after a ToD, and no, I was not on the casting side.

[knightgf]

No.

I will not.

[LordRavnos]

I keep a few on all toons to reimburse if needed, but a nice normal smooth run, I will not reimburse unless it was my fault the healer needed to dip into the SP pot stash. I have 3 healers myself and I never expect to get pots back since many people are cheap, and I try to use cheaper easier to obtain scrolls as much as possible as well. When I do get a few pots I am always pleasantly surprised and thank them, but usually return what I did not use so they can pass it on to someone else.

[TheDearLeader]

Ummm...yeah, I don't keep them on my Melees, either.

I used to - and then they kept going kaboom mid-combat. Even with arrows in my quiver, back of inventory, front of inventory, middle of inventory, surrounded by pots, etc.

Putting a Major on a Melee is asking for punishment. I have the 90 second attention span necessary to swap after the raid and mail pots to the blue bars involved, if I so deem necessary.

[Airgeadlam]

Putting a Major on a Melee is asking for punishment. I have the 90 second attention span necessary to swap after the raid and mail pots to the blue bars involved, if I so deem necessary.

Well, you know what I meant.

[Xeraphim]

Shared Bank.

Put them there.

Pull the stack out and separate it for the healers once the raid is done.

Sometimes the healers leave before I can hand them pots, which means they are saved for a later healer than dumps them into their blue bar to keep the raid going. If they are really nice about things, they see the pots in the Unconfirmed tab int heir mailbox. If they are well known metagamers, I typically try not to worry about it as they generally tell me "No dude, save those. I use the Store pots. Don't worry about it." anyway.

It also helps to use Turbine Store pots on your blasters and save the majors for refinancing.

Important note: If you pull one in a chest and are going straight to another quest, take the time to detour to the bank to put the delicate bottles in the shared bank. They might just mean a success in the distant future that rewards your character with that aggravatingly elusive piece of loot you have been chasing for 6 months.

[SemiraLynn]

I save the sp pots to reimburse my own blue bar characters myself. I don't think I have ever asked for pots after having to drink some to pull a raid through, even raids that didn't deserve to be pulled through. To me it's part of being a caster. I stockpile pots to make sure all of my casters (FvS, Cleric, Wizard, Sorcerer, Bard, Arty...so I need my stockpiles) never run out. That way I can enter a raid and not have to debate whether I need to drink or not depending on party quality and supply. If I can save the raid, I drink up.

[NaturalHazard]

Ummm...yeah, I don't keep them on my Melees, either.

I used to - and then they kept going kaboom mid-combat. Even with arrows in my quiver, back of inventory, front of inventory, middle of inventory, surrounded by pots, etc.

Putting a Major on a Melee is asking for punishment. I have the 90 second attention span necessary to swap after the raid and mail pots to the blue bars involved, if I so deem necessary.

This why I dont keep em on my melee's.

[hecate355]

It sounds like plain old trade is only way and that not having potions ready at hand is something terminal.

Well its not, there is mail system, you can always send those pots after your group break or any given moment later.

Why stress so hard about pots physical location then?

[NaturalHazard]

It sounds like plain old trade is only way and that not having potions ready at hand is something terminal.

Well its not, there is mail system, you can always send those pots after your group break or any given moment later.

Why stress so hard about pots physical location then?

ive done this or even given them plat after to *buy* the pots, they are normally up on the ah on our server for 13k plat or even less so a give about 13k for a pot used, but if they use multiple I expect most of the rest of the party to help out as well not just me to foot the bill alone. Unless I stuffed up somehow and cost all those pots.

[Forzah]

Always keep about 30 on my barbarian. Note however that pot usage is usually due to bad spell point management (i.e. using a mass cure while its safe and a cleric has his aura on; or not using scrolls; or using mass heal when everyone still has more than 70% HP). If it's due to other circumstances, sure, I'll refund, but I'm not going to pay back pots for bad play.

[Uska]

Ummm...yeah, I don't keep them on my Melees, either.

I used to - and then they kept going kaboom mid-combat. Even with arrows in my quiver, back of inventory, front of inventory, middle of inventory, surrounded by pots, etc.

Putting a Major on a Melee is asking for punishment. I have the 90 second attention span necessary to swap after the raid and mail pots to the blue bars involved, if I so deem necessary.

This is what I do if I feel they deserve one I mail it later.

[stoerm]

No.

I will not.

This is why I TR'd my cleric soon after capping. A couple PUG raids is all it took to see how expensive and thankless it is to play a divine at end game.

[Nerthus]

This is what I do if I feel they deserve one I mail it later.

This.
Also at the end of the raid I ask in the party chat how many pots/scrolls were used. Just to remind to other people how costly can be to heal in some raids, hoping that someone else will do the same.
I don't want the divine classes to be affordable only by vets and/or exploiters.

[Mistycball]

/ signet

i havent any caster toon but signet.

[Koowluh]

Always keep about 30 on my barbarian. Note however that pot usage is usually due to bad spell point management (i.e. using a mass cure while its safe and a cleric has his aura on; or not using scrolls; or using mass heal when everyone still has more than 70% HP). If it's due to other circumstances, sure, I'll refund, but I'm not going to pay back pots for bad play.

Uhm, my aura is up all the time, and I like to think I manage my SP pretty well. This sounds like you are blaming me for everyone running off without taking the time to get healed up in my aura?

It takes about 6 seconds to heal everyone in the group for at least 44 hp (22 hp a tick each 3 seconds). 30 seconds later and everyone has over 200 hp back without doing a thing, without spending a single SP.

Can you at least wait half a minute to get yourself healed up instead of blaming it on bad SP management?

I can understand that my aura is insufficient in intense situations, but waiting in front of a door, waiting for a trapmonkey to disarm a trap, waiting before you click the big baddy to start his/her monologue will save quite a bit of HP --> SP --> pots.

I'd love to switch to a (mass) heal scroll by the way, but if everyone can't even stand still for 10 seconds, why bother?

I may be misunderstanding you here though... I'm not one to blamestorm quickly.

[Forzah]

Uhm, my aura is up all the time, and I like to think I manage my SP pretty well. This sounds like you are blaming me for everyone running off without taking the time to get healed up in my aura?

It takes about 6 seconds to heal everyone in the group for at least 44 hp (22 hp a tick each 3 seconds). 30 seconds later and everyone has over 200 hp back without doing a thing, without spending a single SP.

Can you at least wait half a minute to get yourself healed up instead of blaming it on bad SP management?

I can understand that my aura is insufficient in intense situations, but waiting in front of a door, waiting for a trapmonkey to disarm a trap, waiting before you click the big baddy to start his/her monologue will save quite a bit of HP --> SP --> pots.

I'd love to switch to a (mass) heal scroll by the way, but if everyone can't even stand still for 10 seconds, why bother?

I may be misunderstanding you here though... I'm not one to blamestorm quickly.

It was more meant like this:
IF I see the healer play poorly THEN no refund.
Otherwise, yes.

And yes, there are many really poor healers, regardless of people running off.

[Mrmorphling]

Pots in a normal ToD means either a terrific party or an unwise SP managment as with a semi competent tank (meaning non negative heal amp) and a scroll mastery 2+ healer scroll healing should really be enough with the occasional heal to top it off (for Horoth) and a slightly more intensive duty for Suulo but still well within 1k SP and 30-50 scrolls.

That said 50 is not a particularly safe threshold to stay at for a caster if you like trying new content before reading strategy guides... the first epic tries at both MA and LoB were pretty intensive and everyone was willing to chug to see what was up next....

So, in my opinion, i always ask for pot count after a party but i feel compelled to give some pot back only if those blue bars users are sensible as, just to make an example recently happened, i was on my AC tank in a hard ToD tanking Horoth (grazing hits, only hit on a 20) so i was mainly taking badge and spells damage (890 hp toon) well in the entire fight i never received a single heal neither scrolled nor casted i was healed by an endless stream of assorted MASS cure; the healer ended up chugging 4/5 pots, and only 4/5 because rest of the party was good). In that case i feel compelled to give advices at most but surely not majors...

[Airgeadlam]

Ok, ok, ok... Forget the physical location please, for that was not the point. Keep potions at bank or on your casters, or even on your mules or a friend or under the bed! It's not about giving back potions right after completing, is about asking if potions were used and if needed offer some back once in a while. It doesn't matter if you do it while still at quest or say "Hey, any pots used? I got one or two at bank, will mail later".

Related to the poor SP management... Well, I don't know about you all, but I had to learn how to. Maybe you were a twinked Vet the first day you step in DDO, knowing it all, but I wasn't. Do I use potions on a normal ToD? No. Taking as an example the previous ToD I did with my Favored Soul... No potions, no Bauble... actually I stopped using scrolls (used 15) for it was a waste of them and had plenty SP left at the end. So if you tell me that a ToD can be completed by doing this and that... already been there. But I still remember my first ToD, on the tank, after being told a million times about Horoth's desintegrate hitting for 500 and whatnot, I was really nervous and yes, NOW i know i was overhealing. Now. Back then I thought I was just doing the necessary. Took some time, practice and advice to learn. Sure, if you see the healer drank potions because never used heal scrolls, or used wrong spells, whatever... Explain them nicely that his performance can be improved if he just does this and this, good for you. But you can do both. If he never improves, then, well... You tried.

And if it's not the healers fault, but a bad pug (no dps, bad tanks, whatever) then MORE reasons to ask healers if they used something. And I see you coming "Oh, if the pug sucks then let raid wipe and be done"... Sure. You can do that when you have a stable grup/guild to run with. But honestly, are you telling me that if the healer stops healing the party saying "No using potions on you" and then comes the wipe... Those 10 people will look at things calm and reach the conclusion "Well, actually we sucked as group, wipe was deserved". Because I think it would be more like "Noob, he let me die. Cheap bastard who never drank a pot. I will tell how noob he is to my guild, and friends and channels and everything". And well, you read the forums. You know how fast are people to blacklist you, your guild and your mother if they can. So what? Two bad pugs and you are blacklisted by half server? Cool. The newbie (not noob) healer will drink the potion afraid of consequences.

As some people pointed out, people's overall behavior is the reason why I don't go with my healers to pugs (cept for normal shrouds or farming runs) unless I check the LFM and saw some known faces there.

[Airgeadlam]

That said 50 is not a particularly safe threshold to stay at for a caster if you like trying new content before reading strategy guides... the first epic tries at both MA and LoB were pretty intensive and everyone was willing to chug to see what was up next....

My first LoB (normal, on a pug stated as "learning run, need guide") I joined and used some potions. Never asked for reimbursement, and declined some offers. Why? It was a learning run, I chugged without knowing just to cast spells and see what was gonna happen and this and that.

My first epic WizKing? My undergeared FvS and a recently capped Wizzie friend, on a duo. I don't know, I drank like 20 potions trying to kill mobs on poor blade barriers and even heal spells, healing me via scrolls... So yeah, well, once in a lifetime you will drink a lot of pots on a single run. But that's it. Before LoB was out, when was the last time you needed an insane amount of potions anywhere?