Tempest Assassin

[bilbojr]

Have been speaking to a friend a lot recently about this build, I think he made one (and hasn't been around lately) so I wanted some input from you guys. Is it viable? Good dps? Competent at multi-tasking?

Goals: Dual Khopesh, WF self sufficiency, Trap & Locks (some), Good DPS

* Just got WF, I KNOW they are excellent casters and would like to use them elsewhere *

Concerns:
Tight on feats (reason for fighter lvl)
Enhancement pre-req's use a lot of points
Stats used correctly?
Should I take more DR feats/enhacements?
WF Healer Friend enhancements?

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Warforged Male
(1 Fighter \ 7 Rogue \ 12 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 330
Spell Points: 140 
BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 17
Will: 4

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             17                    24
Dexterity            14                    18
Constitution         16                    20
Intelligence         14                    16
Wisdom                6                     6
Charisma              7                     8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               2                     9
Bluff                -2                     1
Concentration         3                     5
Diplomacy            -2                    -1
Disable Device        6                    26
Haggle                2                    22
Heal                 -2                    -2
Hide                  6                    23
Intimidate           -2                    -1
Jump                  7                    12
Listen                1                     1
Move Silently         6                    28
Open Lock             6                    27
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                2                     3
Search                6                    26
Spot                  2                     3
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                3                     5
Use Magic Device      2                    22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Ranger)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant


Level 10 (Ranger)


Level 11 (Ranger)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Ranger)


Level 14 (Ranger)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Elemental


Level 18 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Ranger)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Improved Hide I
Enhancement: Improved Hide II
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
Enhancement: Warforged Damage Reduction I
Enhancement: Warforged Damage Reduction II
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack I
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack II
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack III

Thanks in advance for the assistance!



Edit:
Forgot Bluff? - what should I put in there?
Don't have Monk.

Would like to improve this build, not really change the race unless the build really sucks

[Grailhawk]

Human would be better then WF a bonus feat and human versatility Damage boost while using hast boost at the same time is going to be more dps than anything WF offers.

I would Splash monk instead of fighter but fighter can work.

If you did through the exploiter thread http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=168687 I'm sure you can find a lot of talk about this kind of build.

[bilbojr]

Human would be better then WF a bonus feat and human versatility Damage boost while using hast boost at the same time is going to be more dps than anything WF offers.

I would Splash monk instead of fighter but fighter can work.

If you did through the exploiter thread http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=168687 I'm sure you can find a lot of talk about this kind of build.

I figured human would be nice, I just want to use WF because I now own it.
Do not have Monk, should have noted that.

Have read a lot of that thread, not all 50 pages though! I have a 20 Ranger now which is why I am thinking of TR or just make a new one. Tempest 3 was kinda unimpressive to me. I like the idea of dual khopesh with sneak attack.

Made a few notes on the bottom of OP.

[Alex301]

I can never quite understand dps builds with heavy rogue splashes. A significant portion of your dps will be coming from sneak attack damage, in which case you'll want to play like a rogue to utilise it. If you're playing like a rogue anyway though, why not go full rogue for even more damage?

That said, the build looks about as viable as any other ranger heavy build. I'd personally drop haggle for bluff, balance or diplomacy. Drop the fighter critical accuracy; you shouldn't need it. I'd also drop dexterity III in favour of some more toughness enhancements or skill enhancements if you feel you need them. I'd also drop the WF damage reduction enhancements. There are quite a few DR items around anyway and more health is always good.

[bilbojr]

I can never quite understand dps builds with heavy rogue splashes. A significant portion of your dps will be coming from sneak attack damage, in which case you'll want to play like a rogue to utilise it. If you're playing like a rogue anyway though, why not go full rogue for even more damage?

That said, the build looks about as viable as any other ranger heavy build. I'd personally drop haggle for bluff, balance or diplomacy. Drop the fighter critical accuracy; you shouldn't need it. I'd also drop dexterity III in favour of some more toughness enhancements or skill enhancements if you feel you need them. I'd also drop the WF damage reduction enhancements. There are quite a few DR items around anyway and more health is always good.

I really want a dual wielder, as it seems my Ranger does decent damage for my first character, first life, 28pt build. From my limited experience and reading the forums: Tempest is best for dual wielding. Khopesh is best dps weapon in game. Add those to sneak attack and I thought it might be a tremendous dps build. Maybe it is good in theory and not in practice?

Haggle is just because I enjoy the economy part of the game too. I do need to get some more into Bluff.

DexIII is a bit expensive, maybe even DexII. I only used the skills (hide and ms) to pre-req assassin.

For the WF DR enhancements, they stack I think so I thought any added DR would be nice. These are expensive as well.

What do you think about the healing amp line? Worth it?

Thanks for the input, Alex.

[unbongwah]

Tempest is best for dual wielding.

Tempests have fallen in the DPS ranks since the PrE got nerfed (along with TWF in general) way back in Update 5. In particular, Tempest I builds like the Monster have fallen out of favor since then. Right now I'd guess the best DPS dual-wielders are pure fighters or maybe a specialized multi-classed build like Blitz (although they too have fallen a bit with the fix to barb PL); or a pure rogue for max sneak atk DPS.

Khopesh is best dps weapon in game.

That's still true.

Add those to sneak attack and I thought it might be a tremendous dps build. Maybe it is good in theory and not in practice?

The issue, if you want to call it that, which Alex301 points out, is that a decent amount of DPS from these rogue 7-based builds comes from sneak attacks; but of course the more rogue levels you have, the more SA DPS you do, with the logical conclusion being if you're trying to max out your SA DPS, you ought to be a pure rogue.

For me the appeal of rangers is all the free feats (esp. getting TWF chain without worrying about DEX pre-req), the skill pts, the spells, Favored Enemies, etc.

For the WF DR enhancements, they stack I think so I thought any added DR would be nice.

WF DR only stacks with other sources of WF DR: i.e., Adamantine Body (which cancels out Evasion, so don't take it), Improved DR feats (which you don't have room for), DR enhs (which as you said are expensive), and the FvS LoB capstone (which obviously this build won't have).

What do you think about the healing amp line? Worth it?

Unless you're making a WF capable of Self-Repair (or run with a static group with an arcane who can keep you Repaired), I definitely think Healer's Friend is worth taking, at least initially. Once you're able to UMD Repair wands & Reconstruction scrolls well enough to keep yourself alive, you may be able to drop it.

[BladeTricks]

WF Healer Friend enhancements?

Yes, please take all 3 ranks AND get healing amp gear (may save 6AP and only take 2 ranks if your gear allows it). 50% healing amp on a WF toon that can't reconstruct itself is just ugly. You'll be the scourge of all the divine toons on your server. :P

[Alex301]

I really want a dual wielder, as it seems my Ranger does decent damage for my first character, first life, 28pt build. From my limited experience and reading the forums: Tempest is best for dual wielding. Khopesh is best dps weapon in game. Add those to sneak attack and I thought it might be a tremendous dps build. Maybe it is good in theory and not in practice?

Haggle is just because I enjoy the economy part of the game too. I do need to get some more into Bluff.

DexIII is a bit expensive, maybe even DexII. I only used the skills (hide and ms) to pre-req assassin.

For the WF DR enhancements, they stack I think so I thought any added DR would be nice. These are expensive as well.

What do you think about the healing amp line? Worth it?

Thanks for the input, Alex.

As umbongwa has pointed out, rangers have fallen far from the days when they used to be the DPS kings. The class is really not in a good state and desperately deserves a buff imo.

If you're looking to keep UMD and the ability to disarm traps then I'd consider full rogue or possibly 18 rogue/ 2 fighter. These are more dependant on sneak attacks but can achieve higher potential dps.

If you want higher base damage then the monster build, blitz or possibly the more unconventional 18 fighter/2 rogue, 18 barbarian/ 2 rogue or 18 barbarian/1 rogue/ 1 fighter are worth considering. The blitz and barbarian builds will hinder self healing as you can't use scrolls whilst raged though. There are many other dps builds with rogue abilities but those are some off the top of my head.

Dex II is a requirement for tempest II iirc so you'll have to keep that. 6 ap for Dex III isn't worth it though imo and would be much more useful with more toughness enhancements.

Healing amp enhancements are a must for a warforged. Even if you can scroll reconstruct, your healer will be looking after you most of the time. I'd definitely get the first one but the second and third are quite steep. They are a little better than they sound due to the way healing amp is calculated but still quite expensive after the first.

[Imatotalnoob]

Well I did the ranger multi with rogue on my first and second life on my main.
A few ways to go it I think.

You could Race to 12 ranger for max twf and all your feats are spoken for.
Max out fav enemy attack n damage, wf healing and wf dr( only if it stacks with invulnerability)
Then after splash the rogue to add that little kicker of dps with rogue haste boost.
After 12 u will be 2nd line dps to the barbs and fighters and any multi TR.

Don't get upset I say, embrace it.
Your ranger buffs will be maxed, but no fom, but you're a wf.
Change the dr stuff to boosting sneak damage and fav enemy.

Start your Dex lowish, max str, con and item up the char, int, wis.
The lordsmarch set upgraded is great for u, ts str, wis, char +6

The otherway is to go an exploiter build, see the other threads.


Cheers

[karl_k0ch]

I'll try to explain why a 12 Ranger/7 Rogue /1 X build can make sense.

The player wants to some benefits of playing a rogue (trap skills, UMD, SA damage, wand and scroll mastery) without having the full detriments: A lowish to-hit, bad damage against Undead and Elementals, low HP. In addition, a 11+ Ranger build is attractive to any new player who does not want to (or cannot) spend a tome to qualify for ITWF.

I see this build more in line of an exploiterish build (18ranger/1rogue/1 X), and a bit far away from 13 rog/6 X/1Y, or even pure rogue.

It offers more DPS against the arch-enemies of rogues than a pure or splashed rogue, and it offers more DPS against raid-bosses than an exploiter or pure ranger. The trade-off is, of course that you'll deal less damage against most unfortified trash mobs than a pure rogue.

Re: That build. I don't think that Warforged is particularly good for classes which have access to divine healing, but it's doable. But then you'll be able to reconstruct yourself/repair with wands.

[bilbojr]

Thank you all for the replies.

I think I am going to use a new character slot and test it out.. not TR into it. Not sure what I am going to do with my Ranger now, lol, had no idea what a past life was when I made it and seems to be one of the worst PL feats, oh well.

I am planning on being able to repair/reconstruct from UMD but I would be naive to think that I will not be grouping with divine healers so healing amp does make sense.

If you guys are on argo, look me up.. new toon starting soon

[Alex301]

Thank you all for the replies.

I think I am going to use a new character slot and test it out.. not TR into it. Not sure what I am going to do with my Ranger now, lol, had no idea what a past life was when I made it and seems to be one of the worst PL feats, oh well.

I am planning on being able to repair/reconstruct from UMD but I would be naive to think that I will not be grouping with divine healers so healing amp does make sense.

If you guys are on argo, look me up.. new toon starting soon

The build is certainly viable, just not optimal imo. But then i like to min/max. The builds i mentioned can still give you all the rogue abilities you want along with more health and higher dps in just about any circumstances. They do, however, come with their own drawbacks, e.g. a TWF WF barbarian would be a nightmare to heal :P

The ranger past life feat isn't very useful as ranged combat generally isn't very good. If you want a build that can really utilise it though then a f2p version of the Helves angel build (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=289591) might be worth a look. The build essentially combines many shot + slayer arrows + haste boost + power surge + IPS to do a ton of burst damage. While Many shot is on timer then the build can also do a lot of damage using melee weapons.

You'd have to go 12 fighter/ 6 ranger/ 2 rogue and use elf so you're losing a fair bit of damage compared to the original, but the build is still capable of some pretty ridiculous burst damage; especially when combined with improved precise shot to hit multiple opponents. By going 2 rogue instead of monk you could also fit in some rogue abilities as well. It's not WF but it's worth considering as a TR option imo.

Anyway, good luck with your new toon and all the best

[bilbojr]

Thanks again for all the help and information...

My progress right now is 6 Ranger/3 Rogue/1 Fighter... dps seems ok, especially when sneak attack delivers.

One thing I am having trouble deciding:
Is one extra d6 of sneak attack damage as valuable as an extra feat in my build?
Taking a 2nd fighter level for feat or 7th rogue level for an extra d6 of SA damage?
Feat versus 4d6 sneak attack (will have 3d6)

If fighter 2, I get 9 feats, so what to pick as it is already tight...

Feats that are a must:
dodge
mobility
spring attack
khopesh

which leaves 5 remaining, 2 being fighter feats:

toughness
power attack
oversized twf
weapon focus: slash
greater weapon focus: slash
improved critical: slash
weapon specialization
greater weapon specialization

Feat swap:
I am taking toughness at least until getting my greensteel hp item level, then swapping. I do not gimp CON so I think my hp will be fine by that point and I am taking 2 CON WF enhancements and a +2 tome.

2 fighter feats:
weapon focus: slash (a pre-req for specialization)
weapon specialization (+2 damage)

which leaves 3:
power attack
improved critical
oversized twf

and leaves out:
greater weapon specialization
toughness (swapping)
greater weapon focus slash


Are these my best options for dps for this build?

bilbo

[unbongwah]

toughness
power attack
improved critical: slash

There are must-haves on any melee build. Don't swap out Toughness; between it & Toughness enhs, you will add up to 72 HPs to your build.

weapon focus: slash
greater weapon focus: slash
weapon specialization
greater weapon specialization

Weap Spec, GWF, and GWS are only available at ftr lvls 4, 8, and 12, respectively; so you won't be able to take any of them with only a single ftr lvl. And WF by itself is pointless.

I would probably take a couple of tactics feats, like Hamstring & Imp Sunder.

[78mackson]

I figured human would be nice, I just want to use WF because I now own it.

Great... but why don't you build something usefull instead? like sorcerer, wizard and, I doubt you have it, FvS. All great classes for WF.

The other posts above, that might seem bad... is actually good advise.

[ThePrincipal]

i would hold off on this build until the racial pres come out. Drow get tempest. Halfling get assassin. seems like you could go ranger 20 + halfing or rogue 20 + drow to get everything you like without multiclassing.

[yawumpus]

It's probably too late for your build, but I have to ask why you need that much intelligence. I guess if you want a more rogueish build you will need the skills, but a more rangerish build should emphasize strength and constitution and dump intelligence.

Maybe dump is too harsh (I think I was testing human ranger/rogue combos) but I'm pretty sure you can max out UMD/spot/search/disable with just 8 INT and that amount of ranger and rogue levels. Maybe I'm missing something (I've skipped assassin 1 for mechanic 1, so I have no idea if even level appropriate mobs can save vs. poison nevermind high level ones).

Also I'm not expecting hard information on enhancements till summer. That is enough to keep my ranger from being TR'ed, but I've heard plenty of players that TR fast enough to not care about that.

[masterzzan]

I would probably take a couple of tactics feats, like Hamstring & Imp Sunder.

SAP - - - the BEST feat an assassin can have!.
no save!!!.
hit and the target is stunned till it is hit again.since u have sa it take 30 sec before it end. and u can reuse sap in 15-20 sec. = u can sap kill to death as long as u don't miss.

iv known assassin that soloed quest by bluffing and sapping( slowly) the whole map (was RPG players).

i have used it as ninja spy with stunning fist(if there was more then one caster) to take control of the casters in a crowd of mobs. leave u the melee's to kill before going back to casters.

[Kmnh]

The 7th level of rogue gives you 1d6 of sneak attack damage , haste boost III, and likely other important enhancements. Don't drop it

I don't think the tempest is still worth the effort. Is 10% more offhand procs worth 3 feats? You could work stunning blow, sap, hamstring or other utility feats in instead.

Oh, and if you are not taking tempest II, it might be worth it to drop a level of ranger and take one more of fighter. I dont know, I didn't run the numbers.

[karl_k0ch]

I don't think the tempest is still worth the effort. Is 10% more offhand procs worth 3 feats? You could work stunning blow, sap, hamstring or other utility feats in instead.

Oh, and if you are not taking tempest II, it might be worth it to drop a level of ranger and take one more of fighter. I dont know, I didn't run the numbers.

Agreed.

It's worth noting that the devs are planning to be very light on feat requirements for PrEs, with the upcoming revamp.

Tentative plan for Tempest includes a single defensive line that requires Dodge and Mobility at various points, possibly Spring Attack. Many Tempest enhancements will only work when Two-Weapon Fighting, but don't strictly require any feats. You could probably be a terrible zero-feats TWF and still use a lot of Tempest TWF stuff, or the other enhancements that don't require TWF at all.