Legic - Pale Master Survivor

[budalic]

You're kidding, right?

In most situations, a PM casts 1 4th level spell and doesn't need any other healing whatsoever.
In those where they do need, they can cast Negative Energy Burst, which is a little weaker than Recon, but not much, while they are still getting their ticks of 30-80 HP every 2 seconds. Plus, they can wear the Demon Consort bracers without risking a negative level (WF are affected), gain an Inflict Light Wounds every time they get hit, and gain temporary HP from lich form (or 25% stacking miss chance from Wraith form).

Recon is strong, yes, stronger than NEB, even, but definitely not stronger than all the healing tools a PM has combined, and definitely not more mana efficient. When you add scrolls to the mix, they're close, but scrolls aren't exactly cheap.

The one place WF win-out is when there is outside divine healing available that can't be changed to Harm, or when you really want to be benefiting from Mass Cures or Mass Heal.

The two end up being pretty even once everything is considered, with the PM being better in some situations and the WF better in others.

Yeah, PM has better mana efficiency, that's true. But you can't deny that spamming recon is gonna see you through some stuff you wouldn't survive on pale. Negative energy burst is atrocious. It has long casting time, leaving you exposed/nonshieldblocking. Death aura is amazing, true, but still even using Lesser Death Aura + Death aura + Neb isn't gonna heal you as well, while being less sp efficient.

I'm not speaking about normal situations here, but about stuff like shieldblocking epic Lailat - which wf can do without displacement and come out with more sp left after the battle because of more torc procs.

EDIT: I was speaking about eDQ1, where it's practical thing to do.

[CrankVulcan]

What wizards do you see anywhere that give up any amount of Int for more HP?

Oh...besides you?

It is impossible to have everything in one character. Impossible.

Their is no shortage of human/drow max DC PMs on my server. I try to solo everything I possibly can because frankly I'm disgusted with the pugging scene.

My build goals? Survivability. Not survivability in quests but survivability in high end raids when the lag monster almost wipes a group. It's where I find the most fun in the game.

This is the best i could come up with(at the time) that could retain survivability and have a secondary purpose in group scenarios. I mentioned that this build would sacrifice certain things... The build works well for me.

[Valiance]

Yeah, PM has better mana efficiency, that's true. But you can't deny that spamming recon is gonna see you through some stuff you wouldn't survive on pale. Negative energy burst is atrocious. It has long casting time, leaving you exposed/nonshieldblocking. Death aura is amazing, true, but still even using Lesser Death Aura + Death aura + Neb isn't gonna heal you as well, while being less sp efficient.

I'm not speaking about normal situations here, but about stuff like shieldblocking epic Lailat - which wf can do without displacement and come out with more sp left after the battle because of more torc procs.

EDIT: I was speaking about eDQ1, where it's practical thing to do.

Well I can deny that spamming recon is "gonna see you through some stuff you wouldn't survive on a pale" because it's just not true. I have played both types of arcanes extensively and trust me the fully geared PM is actually more survivable.

A fully geared PM gets the following for "DR" (assuming incoming dmg of 50):

DR
9 Super DR- Boon to Undeath (Actually heals you if you take less than this amount)
3 SemiSuper DR- Bracers of Demon Consort (10% chance of 30 hp)
3 SemiSuper DR- Lich Form (same as above)
1.2 SemiSuper DR- Conc Opp
10/5/5 regular DR- (Demon Queen gloves 10 piercing, 5 dr from axe/hammer block shield)
10 shld reduction (imp shield mastery with large shield with 0% spell failure from enhancements)

31.2 (36.2 pierce) “standing” DR
27 Shield blocking w/Hound shield

58.2 effective DR while shield blocking (63.2 pierce)

A WF non PM arcane can get some of this but loses out on 15 of "super DR". I call it super because this is much better than DR in that it will actually heal you if you take less dmg than your total DR at the time.

Your example is perfect in that the DQ hits you about 4 times at the same time. If she hits you for 50 points a swing and you are shield blocking not only will you not die her attack will actually HEAL you, not to mention you will proc insane amounts of mana from torc/con op.

On top of that craziness you get your Death Aura and Lesser Death Aura healing, PLUS you get Neg energy burst if by some crazy chance you start to fall low on hp.

V

[budalic]

A WF non PM arcane can get some of this but loses out on 15 of "super DR". I call it super because this is much better than DR in that it will actually heal you if you take less dmg than your total DR at the time.

Your example is perfect in that the DQ hits you about 4 times at the same time. If she hits you for 50 points a swing and you are shield blocking not only will you not die her attack will actually HEAL you, not to mention you will proc insane amounts of mana from torc/con op.

On top of that craziness you get your Death Aura and Lesser Death Aura healing, PLUS you get Neg energy burst if by some crazy chance you start to fall low on hp.

V

a) You didn't count in docent of defiance
b) It's easy to talk about stuff like that - try it in practice. Go to eDQ1, shieldblock her on pale - then get your friend with wf (or you go on wf in) and see him.

I'm not theorycrafting here - as you do - one of my friends TRed pale into WF because of that. If I wasn't so adamant on playing only humans, I might do it too. Pale master is awesome if you can survive on Death Aura. Once you need to use Negative Energy Burst, you are a big sucker.

EDIT: I must confess I didn't count in HoX shield, though. That might change stuff a little. Still, I didn't count it in on WF or divines either, so whatever.

[Valiance]

a) You didn't count in docent of defiance
b) It's easy to talk about stuff like that - try it in practice. Go to eDQ1, shieldblock her on pale - then get your friend with wf (or you go on wf in) and see him.

I'm not theorycrafting here - as you do - one of my friends TRed pale into WF because of that. If I wasn't so adamant on playing only humans, I might do it too. Pale master is awesome if you can survive on Death Aura. Once you need to use Negative Energy Burst, you are a big sucker.

EDIT: I must confess I didn't count in HoX shield, though. That might change stuff a little. Still, I didn't count it in on WF or divines either, so whatever.

Don't know what to tell you except for it's not theory. I've been solo'ing things for years in this game. Properly geared PMs are more survivable than WF. Crazy but true.

V

[CrankVulcan]

Properly geared PMs are more survivable than WF. Crazy but true.

V

I've combined the 2....

It's beautiful...Brings a tear to my eye....

[Valiance]

I've combined the 2....

It's beautiful...Brings a tear to my eye....

This would be true except once you switch to your DoD once you cannot go back to a docent that has Boon to Undeath. Boon to Undeath > Defiance in most situations so right now not a huge benefit to being WF. Once that is fixed however then you'll have something. (Too bad it's been bugged for like 1.5 years now).

V

[Teharahma]

Have the same thing planned for my wizard.
Only 1 less shield mastery feat and gearwise a little bit different

Ash2 SP Helm
Epic Torc
Litany
Epic Envenomed Cloak
Epic Lion-headed Belt Buckle
Rahkir's Ring
ConOp HP Gloves
Any boots
Con+1 ToD ring
Epic Bracer's of the Demon Consort
Epic Docent of Night/DoD
Magewright Spectacles
Epic Kundarak Warding Shield
And a various assortment of kamas, including ConOp.

[CrankVulcan]

Have the same thing planned for my wizard.
Only 1 less shield mastery feat and gearwise a little bit different

Ash2 SP Helm
Epic Torc
Litany
Epic Envenomed Cloak
Epic Lion-headed Belt Buckle
Rahkir's Ring
ConOp HP Gloves
Any boots
Con+1 ToD ring
Epic Bracer's of the Demon Consort
Epic Docent of Night/DoD
Magewright Spectacles
Epic Kundarak Warding Shield
And a various assortment of kamas, including ConOp.

Interesting...what did you take in place of the 2nd Shield Mastery? After this life I'll TR and replace the 2nd with Wiz PL...

[budalic]

Don't know what to tell you except for it's not theory. I've been solo'ing things for years in this game. Properly geared PMs are more survivable than WF. Crazy but true.

V

But you are theorycrafting. Because it isn't true. If Negative Energy Burst wasn't worst healing spell in game it would be true. But it isn't.

At any rate, bowing out of discussion - as far as I'm concerned, you can believe whatever the hell you want.

EDIT: Disregard what I have written here (and which is edited out now). It was petty and stupid.

[CrankVulcan]

But you are theorycrafting. Because it isn't true. If Negative Energy Burst wasn't worst healing spell in game it would be true. But it isn't.

Valiance is not saying the PM Neg energy burst is better. He is saying that PM is more survivable in general. When you count in all the False life procs, DR, and extra HP, the Neg energy aura becomes a SP efficient way to stay at full health. This applies to many situations including raid tanking scenarios.

This is NOT theory.


Reconstruct/Heal > Negative Energy Burst...

But in my personal opinion,

PM > AM

[CrankVulcan]

This would be true except once you switch to your DoD once you cannot go back to a docent that has Boon to Undeath. Boon to Undeath > Defiance in most situations so right now not a huge benefit to being WF. Once that is fixed however then you'll have something. (Too bad it's been bugged for like 1.5 years now).

V

It works now...