Standard Sorcerer Builds

[Isharah]

A list-type guide for your mainstream sorcerer. IP. Input welcome especially regarding WF sorc builds. Thanks all.

NOTE: Potentially obsolete by release of Menace of the Underdark.

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Build Information
Savant and Spell Selection
Key Gear and Helpful Links

Race Selection

Recommended for first-time casters: Human or Warforged

Self-sufficiency
1. Warforged - can repair self all throughout, high potential HP, has inherent racial immunities
2. Half-elf - can scroll-heal self at end-game, moderate potential HP, has access to healing amp enhancements, possible early access to cures from selected dilettante
3. Human - can scroll-heal self at end-game, moderate potential HP, has access to healing amp enhancements
3. Drow - can scroll-heal self at end-game, lowest potential HP among the three

DCs
1. Drow - highest attainable Charisma in the game with +3 tome
2. Human - highest attainable Charisma in the game with +4 tome, extra feat usable for secondary spell focus
3. Half-elf - highest attainable Charisma in the game with +4 tome
3. Warforged - lowest attainable Charisma in the game

Versatility
1. Human - extra feat
2. Half-elf - dilettante availability
3. Warforged
4. Drow

Half-elf Dilettante
1. Paladin - up to +5 bonus to saves (dependent on Charisma score)
2. Barbarian - up to +20 bonus to HP and access to +1 Constitution (class enhancement so this stacks with human adaptability)
3. Cleric - early access to cure and raise dead scrolls [prerequisite note: 13 Wisdom at character creation]
4. Monk - up to +20% Improved Recovery (healing amplification) [prerequisite note: 13 Wisdom at character creation]

Alignment

Not very important.

Suggested
Neutral, to be able to use Stability items.
Chaotic Neutral, for less damage from monsters.

Avoid
Good alignments.

Skills

Need

1. UMD (for Human and Drow) - allows self-healing at later levels
2. Concentration - allows you to cast while taking damage

In case you have extra skill points

1. Balance - survivability
2. Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate - for role-specific builds
3. Haggle - utility
4. Jump

Ability Increases

All in Charisma.

Feats

Fleshie Nuker
Level 1 - Toughness/Mental Toughness or some feat of your choice (human)*
Level 3 - Empower
Level 6 - Maximize
Level 9 - Spell Focus: Evocation/Conjuration (check your savant requirements)
Level 12 - Greater Spell Focus: Evocation/Conjuration
Level 15 - Heighten Spell
Level 18 - Spell Penetration

Fleshie Nuker with Cross-school Specialization
Level 1 - Toughness/Mental Toughness or some feat of your choice (human)*
Level 3 - Empower
Level 6 - Maximize
Level 9 - Spell Focus: Evocation/Conjuration (check your savant requirements)
Level 12 - Spell Focus: *your choice of school*
Level 15 - Heighten Spell
Level 18 - Spell Penetration

Standard warforged
Level 1 - Toughness
Level 3 - Mental Toughness or some feat of your choice*
Level 6 - Maximize
Level 9 - Empower
Level 12 - Spell Focus: Evocation/Conjuration (check your savant requirements)
Level 15 - Heighten Spell
Level 18 - Spell Penetration

Advanced Build: 40 UB DC Necromancer Sorc
[suggested prerequisite: at least 2 wizard and 1 sorcerer past life, arcane augmentation item, HP green steel, +3 Cha tome for 40 DC]
Level 1 - Empower/Mental Toughness or some feat of your choice (human)*
Level 3 - Past Life: Arcane Initiate (active wizard)
Level 6 - Maximize
Level 9 - Spell Focus: Necromancy
Level 12 - Spell Focus: Evocation/Conjuration or Past Life: Arcane Prodigy (active sorcerer), check your savant requirements
Level 15 - Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
Level 18 - Heighten

Advanced Build: 41 UB DC Enchanter Sorc
[suggested prerequisite: human, at least 2 wizard and 1 bard past life, arcane augmentation item, HP green steel, +4 Cha tome for 41 DC]
Level 1 - Empower/Spell Focus: Enchantment
Level 3 - Past Life: Arcane Initiate (active wizard)
Level 6 - Maximize
Level 9 - Past Life: Musical Prodigy (active bard)
Level 12 - Spell Focus: Evocation/Conjuration or Past Life: Arcane Prodigy (active sorcerer), check your savant requirements
Level 15 - Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
Level 18 - Heighten


* Switch out for one of the following later in the game:

1. Spell Focus: *your choice of school* (improve spell DCs)
2. Greater Spell Penetration (if your gamestyle calls for heavy use of such spells)
3. Past Life: *your choice* (active Wizard past life is a must if you have access to it)
4. Quicken (usually recommended for Warforged)
5. Skill Focus: UMD (as needed, if self-sufficiency is prioritized)

Some notes
- The active sorcerer past life is useful for leveling up (equivalent of Mental Toughness plus 10 charges elemental bolt) - it's a good feat to place in that extra slot.
- If you have a wizard past life and want more feats, you can opt to swap out your secondary Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus, Toughness, or Spell Penetration for it. Just make sure that you can still reach at least 300 HP unbuffed via items before you swap out Toughness.
- Advanced builds not recommended for toons not meeting the listed prerequisites.

Enhancements

Required

• Sorcerer *element* Manipulation VII (on savant element)
• Sorcerer Deadly *element* VI (on savant element)
• Sorcerer *element* Spellcasting VI (on savant element)
• Improved Empower II or Improved Maximize II (savant prereq)
• Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded II (savant prereq)
• Human Adaptability Charisma (for human only)
• Sorcerer Charisma III (or II, whichever leads to even Charisma)
• Racial Toughness II [not a requirement for advanced builds since they have no space for the toughness feat]

Tweaking (where your other AP might go)

• Sorcerer *element* Manipulation (on some secondary/tertiary element)
• Sorcerer Deadly *element* (on some secondary/tertiary element)
• Sorcerer *element* Spellcasting (on some secondary/tertiary element)
• Sorcerer Spell Penetration II
• Sorcerer Scroll and Wand Mastery III
• Human Improved Recovery II
• Human Adaptability Constitution
• Racial Toughness III
• Dilettante enhancements

[Isharah]

NOTE: Potentially obsolete by release of Menace of the Underdark.

Jump to:
Build Information
Savant and Spell Selection
Key Gear and Helpful Links

-------------IN PROGRESS-------------

Savant Selection

Some guidelines

• Highest single-target DPS at cap: Water
• Highest multiple-target DPS at cap: Air/Fire, depending on enemy
• Most efficient damage per SP score at cap: Earth

Suggested progression

Level 1 to ~15 - Fire Savant (secondary in acid/air)
Level ~15 to 20 - Water/Acid/Air Savant


Tips

• If you are a fan of high-end raiding, go water savant. This gives the highest DPS output versus raid bosses.
• If you solo a lot, going acid savant is good. This savant has perhaps the lowest DPS output but is very efficient in terms of SP usage.
• Air savant is very DC intensive. It is very good for level 20 mobs, but as you progress to epics and high-end raids, your DPS output will be muted by enemy saves. Don't take this savant at cap unless 1) you have very good gear and can get to roughly 42 DC on evocation; or 2) you don't intend to run quests that involve devils and other monsters that have evasion.
• There are many devils in end-game content, and devils are immune to fire. Before you decide on going fire savant, make sure that you know what kind of content you intend to run most -- if there are devils there, then pick some other savant.

Spell Selection

Must-haves for levelling

1. Buff/support spells (aside from repair spells to be taken by WF)

• Level 1: Nightshield, Jump, Expeditious Retreat
• Level 2: Resist Energy, Web, Blur (can use wands), Invisibility (can use wands/scrolls)
• Level 3: Haste, Rage, Displacement (at later levels when they last for more than a couple blinks of the eye)
• Level 4: Stoneskin, Dimension Door (subject to playstyle)
• Level 5: Protection from Elements (swap out later for a nuke spell)
• Level 6: Reconstruct (for warforged only), Greater Heroism (can use scrolls)
• Level 7: Otto's Sphere of Dancing (even if you have crappy enchantment DCs)
• Level 8: Otto's Irresistible Dance, Symbol of Death (subject to playstyle)
• Level 9: Energy Drain

2. Offensive spells

• All savants
  Niac's Biting Cold, Eladar's Electric Surge, Disintegrate, Finger of Death, Wail of the Banshee
• Fire savant
  Burning hands*, Scorch*, Scorching Ray, Fireball, Wall of Fire, Delayed Blast Fireball, Meteor Swarm
• Water savant
  Niac's Cold Ray*, Snowball swarm*, Frost Lance, Ice Storm, Cone of Cold, Otiluke's Freezing Sphere, Polar Ray
• Air savant
  Sonic Blast*, Electric Loop, Lightning Bolt, Ball Lightning, Cyclonic Blast, Chain Lightning
• Earth savant
  Acid Spray*, Melf's Acid Arrow, Acid Blast, Acid Rain, Cloudkill, Acid Fog, Black Dragon Bolt

* Swap out to something else after level 12
Spells highlighted in YELLOW-GREEN are your main offensive spells.

[Isharah]

NOTE: Potentially obsolete by release of Menace of the Underdark.

Jump to:
Build Information
Savant and Spell Selection
Key Gear and Helpful Links

-------------IN PROGRESS-------------

Key Gear

By level

• Level 1 -
• Level 2 -
• Level 3 -
• Level 4 - Cunning Trinket, Stalwart Trinket
• Level 5 - Voice of the Master, Mantle of the Worldshaper, Abishai Set, Unsuppressed Vibrant Purple Ioun Stone, Visor of the Flesh Render
• Level 6 -
• Level 7 -
• Level 8 -
• Level 9 -
• Level 10 -
• Level 11 - Minos Legens, Green Steel Accessories, Bracers of the Demon's Consort, Torc of Prince Raiyum-de II
• Level 12 - Green Blade, Green Steel Weapons, Ornamented Dagger, Staff of Arcane Power
• Level 13 - Litany of the Dead, Stormreaver's Napkin, Bracers of the Glacier, Ring of Thelis, Head of Good Fortune, Noxious Embers
• Level 14 - Dragonscale Robe, Staff of the Petitioner, Scepter of Mad Trickery, Skiver, Infused Chaosrobe/Docent
• Level 15 - Shard of Xoriat, Mindfury Symbiont
• Level 16 - Ornamented Dagger, Dragontouched Armor, Flameward
• Level 17 - Darkstorm Helm
• Level 18 - ToD rings, ToD belts, Xachosian Eardweller, Mysterious Bauble
• Level 19 -
• Level 20 - Bracelet of Madness, Epic Treasure Hunter's Spyglass

Cannith Crafting*

• Level 1 - Item of Invulnerability, Superior Inferno III Item, Superior Freeze III Item, Superior Erosion III Item, Superior Spark III Item, Superior Cacophony III Item, Superior Impact III Item, Item of Stability, Item of Command, Item of Concentration +3, Item of Lesser False Life, Item of Wizardry I
• Level 2 -
• Level 3 - Item of Greater Stability, Item of Persuasion, Item of Concentration +7, Item of Power III, Efficient Empower II Item, Efficient Maximize I Item, Superior Inferno IV Item, Superior Freeze IV Item, Superior Erosion IV Item, Superior Spark IV Item, Superior Cacophony IV Item, Superior Impact IV Item
• Level 4 -
• Level 5 - Item of Superior Stability, Blood Rage Item, Conjuration Focus Item, Transmutation Focus Item, Illusion Focus Item, Greater Illusion Focus Item, Evocation Focus Item, Enchantment Focus Item, Abjuration Focus Item, Necromancy Focus Item, Item of False Life, Item of Wizardry II, Item of Power V, Efficient Maximize II Item, Item of Good Luck +1, Superior Inferno V/VI/VII Item, Superior Freeze V/VI/VII Item, Superior Erosion V/VI/VII Item, Superior Spark V/VI/VII Item, Superior Cacophony V/VI/VII Item, Superior Impact V/VI/VII Item
• Level 6 - Efficient Metamagic - Maximize II
• Level 7 - Item of Concentration +10, Item of Improved False Life, Item of Wizardry III
• Level 8 -
• Level 9 - Item of Concentration +11, Item of Greater False Life, Item of Power IX, Item of Good Luck +2
• Level 10 -
• Level 11 - Greater Conjuration Focus Item, Greater Transmutation Focus Item, Greater Evocation Focus Item, Greater Enchantment Focus Item, Greater Necromancy Focus Item, Item of Concentration +13, Item of Power X
• Level 12 -
• Level 13 - Item of Wizardry V
• Level 14 -
• Level 15 -
• Level 16 -
• Level 17 -
• Level 18 -
• Level 19 -
• Level 20 -

* Assuming single effect crafted on item. To calculate ML for multiple effects, Effective ML = ML(Suffix) + ML(Prefix) + 1.


Green Steel Suggestions

Weapon (any single-handed) - for exceptional stats

• Concordant Opposition - +10 Diplo, +10 Haggle, +6 Wis, On-being-hit chance, gain 30 temporary hit points or restore 22-32 spell points, 4% chance on each [double-shard: +6 Str, +1 exc Cha, +2 exc Cha]
• Triple Positive - Raise dead clicky, On-hit 3~5% chance, undead destroyed, will save DC unknown [single-shard: +6 Cha, +1 exc Cha, +2 exc Cha]
• Triple Air - Haste clicky, On-being-hit 5% chance, DC 35 trip or 30-second Haste [double-shard: +6 Cha, +1 exc Cha, +2 exc Cha)

Accessory (ideal slots: goggles, bracers, gloves) - for HP/SP

• [SP] Concordant Opposition - +10 Diplo, +10 Haggle, +6 Wis, On-being-hit chance, gain 30 temporary hit points or restore 22-32 spell points, 4% chance on each [double-shard: Blindness and Disease Immunity, +50 SP, +2 to Cha-based skills, +100 SP, +3 to Cha-based skills]
• [SP] Freezing Ice Guard - On being-hit chance of freezing target [double-shard: Wizardry VI, +1 to Wis-based skills, +50 SP, +2 to Cha-based skills, +100 SP, +3 to Cha-based skills]
• [HP] Concordant Opposition - +10 Diplo, +10 Haggle, +6 Wis, On-being-hit chance, gain 30 temporary hit points or restore 22-32 spell points, 4% chance on each [double-shard: +10 HP, +1 to Str-based skills, +15 HP, +2 to Con-based skills, +20 HP, +3 to Con-based skills]
• [HP] Earthgrab Guard - +On-being-hit 5% chance, reflex save DC 35, target helpless while held
  [single-shard: +10 HP, +1 to Con-based skills, +15 HP, +2 to Con-based skills, +20 HP, +20 to Con-based skills]

Some notes:
- Green steel weapons are good for toons that don't have epic or ToD gear yet. They are good sources of exceptional stats.
- Strive to get one SP and one HP green steel on your sorcerer. Start with SP since this will allow you to be more useful in the mainstream raids, then follow-up with your HP green steel (once you get a cleansing stone from your 20th Shroud) to make you more capable for epics and high-end raids.
- Pluses to Charisma-based skills are very important if you are a fleshie and intend to use your UMD for heal scrolls and other buffs.
- Pluses to Constitution-based skills are important for toons without Quicken, since this improves your Concentration score (50s is a good score to not get interrupted on epics).
- Note that some green steel items are double-shard; this means that you need twice as many large materials from Shroud to create these items.


Epic Item Suggestions

Weapons

• Epic Staff of Inner Sight - +2 to DC of all spell schools, True Seeing, Colorless Augment Slot, Violet Augment Slot
• Epic Green Blade - Greater Arcane Lore, Spell Penetration IX, Red Augment Slot
• Epic Staff of Arcane Power - Archmagi, Arcane Augmentation IX, Good Luck +2, Violet Augment Slot
• Epic Dynastic Falcata - +7 Cha, Cha mod (instead of Str mod) used for attack and damage bonus, Red Augment Slot
• Epic Elyd Edge - +7 Cha, Red Augment Slot
• Epic Flameward - +7 Cha, +1 Exc Cha, +5 UMD (competence), +2 to DC of Evocation spells, 20% Fire Absorption, Greater Fire Resistance, Violet Augment Slot
  

Armor

• Epic Robe/Docent of the Diabolist - Summon Monster IX clicky, +3 to DC of Conjuration spells, Blue Augment Slot
• Epic Robe of Fire - +2 to DC of Evocation spells, Incineration guard, Blue Augment Slot

Accessories

• Epic Helm of Frost - +7 Charisma, Yellow Augment Slot (can slot in Greater False Life)
• Epic Shimmering Pendant - +7 Cha, +20 Diplo, Yellow Augment Slot
• Epic Hruvayah's Medallion - Spell Penetration IX, Green Augment Slot
• Epic Ring of Spell Storing - Major Mnemonic Aid clicky, Colorless Augment Slot
• Epic Cloak of the Zephyr - Blurry, Superior Lightning Lore, Yellow Augment Slot
• Epic Envenomed Cloak - +7 Constitution, Blue Augment Slot (can slot in Heavy Fortification)
• Epic Hyena Claw Necklace - +7 Con, Toughness, Yellow Augment Slot
• Epic Spectacles of Spirit Sight - +2 to DC of Enchantment spells, +2 to DC of Necromancy spells, Colorless Augment Slot
• Epic Torc of Prince Raiyum-de II - Greater Spell Penetration VIII, Transform Kinetic Energy, Colorless Augment Slot
• Epic Shaman's Band - Spell Penetration IX, Colorless Augment Slot
• Epic Shaman's Beads - +2 to DC of Evocation spells, Efficient Maximize II, Yellow Augment Slot
• Epic Twisted Talisman - Blood Sacrifice (take 25 HP damage to recover 50 SP)
• Epic Ring of the Silver Concord - +7 Cha, +6 Protection, Command, Yellow Augment Slot
• Epic Cloak of the Silver Concord - +7 Cha, Persuasion, Yellow Augment Slot
• Epic Ring of the Silver Concord - +7 Cha, +6 Protection, Command, Yellow Augment Slot

Challenge Items

• Ring of the Master Artificer - Archmagi, Superior Repair Lore, Greater Auto-repair (augment slot can be none, colorless, or green depending on tier)
• Frozen Tunic (T3) - Superior Ice Lore, Freezing Ice, Blue Augment Slot
• Bracers of Wind (T3) - Superior Lightning Lore, Blurry, Air guard, Yellow Augment Slot
• Cloak of Flames (T3) - Superior Fire Lore, Fire Absorption 20%, Inherent Fire Resistance 10, Blue Augment Slot
• Rock Boots (T3) - Superior Acid Lore, Stone Prison guard, Earthgrab guard, Immunity to slippery surfaces, Inherent Acid Resistance 10, Yellow Augment Slot

Epic Item Sets

• Greater Might of the Abishai (3-set) - useful for water savants to increase Polar Ray CL to 29 (Profane Natural Armor Bonus +3, Profane Strength +3, Evocation Caster Level Bonus +3)
• Greater Might of the Abishai (5-set) - (Profane Natural Armor Bonus +3, Profane Strength +3, Profane Constitution +3, Evocation Caster Level Bonus +3, Epic Conjuration Focus) [suggested prerequisite: T3 Fire and T3 Earth Alchemical Weapons]

Alchemical Crafting Suggestions

Metal type

• Crystal (for enhancements to force line)
• Adamantine (for enhancements to slashing/bludgeoning spells such as meteor swarm and ice storm)
• Cold iron (for enhancements to sonic line)

Upgrades (all mystical)

• First Tier
  Savant or secondary focus element (Superior Element IX -- static +50%, Superior Metal Type IX, air/earthgrab/freezing ice/magma surge guard)
• Second Tier
  Savant or secondary focus element (Superior Element IX -- +75% clicky, Superior Metal Type Lore, Superior Element Lore)
• Third Tier
  Fire (Efficient Metamagic Maximize II, Greater Evocation Focus, Arcane Augmentation IX)
  Earth (Efficient Metamagic Empower II, Greater Conjuration Focus, Greater Spell Penetration IX)

Helpful links:

Arcane Raid Requirements - Orien
Sorcerer Maximum Sustainable DCsGreen Steel Crafting Planner
Cannith Crafting Planner

[yawumpus]

I can't see taking mental toughness even to be swapped out in a few levels.

For early leveling, I suspect spell focus: evo, weapon proficiency: greataxe*, or extend would help a low level character more. Of these, probably spell focus: evo is the best to prevent all those annoying saves on niacs (those twinked with +6 no ML charisma items need not apply, use a +6 no ML strength item and greataxe).

Mental toughness gives a whopping 10 points (plus another 5 per level, but will be quickly swapped out). A human sorcerer (18 charisma) has 220 sp already. Since sf:e will prevent a save in 1/20 times cast, you will spend less sp by taking it than you would gain through mental toughness. This disregards any issues with the mob beating on you due to making that save. Mental toughness has no place in a sorcerer build, even to be swapped out.

* I'd still take the eternal wand, and go find a greataxe on my own. Much easier to find a greataxe than an eternal wand.

[DarkForte]

Niac's Cold Ray is conjuration. Why the greataxe proficiency? Just take master's touch if you're gonna melee everything.

[Isharah]

I can't see taking mental toughness even to be swapped out in a few levels.

For early leveling, I suspect spell focus: evo, weapon proficiency: greataxe*, or extend would help a low level character more. Of these, probably spell focus: evo is the best to prevent all those annoying saves on niacs (those twinked with +6 no ML charisma items need not apply, use a +6 no ML strength item and greataxe).

Mental toughness gives a whopping 10 points (plus another 5 per level, but will be quickly swapped out). A human sorcerer (18 charisma) has 220 sp already. Since sf:e will prevent a save in 1/20 times cast, you will spend less sp by taking it than you would gain through mental toughness. This disregards any issues with the mob beating on you due to making that save. Mental toughness has no place in a sorcerer build, even to be swapped out.

I suggested taking mental toughness instead of a spell focus since around these levels, monster saves are pretty bad to begin with. From the top of my head I can't think of any other feat that will be more useful to the player at that point of the game other than something that gives a few extra SP.

Also, are you sure it's 220 SP for a sorc at level 1?

About meleeing, I am personally against melee sorcs since after the savants came out. But if the player insists, DarkForte's suggestion of using Master's Touch instead is much better for simple and martial weapons.

Thank you for the input.

[yawumpus]

Niac's Cold Ray is conjuration. Why the greataxe proficiency? Just take master's touch if you're gonna melee everything.

I'll try to remember the conjuration (why isn't that anywhere ingame?).

The point of greataxe proficiency is that sorcerers only get two spell slots, and those feats really don't do much at low level. If you are going to use an axe, it is likely worth it to spend the feat and have double the available spells (squishies can take two of niacs, shield, mage armor; toasters can take minor repair and something else).

You will likely notice toughness. You might like extend if your buffs keep wearing out (you won't save many spell point with it at that level). Maximize and Empower make spells extremely expensive. Greataxe proficiency won't burn a precious spell slot, letting you be even more a sorcerer (it also lets you swap back and forth between clickies, wands and whatnot without using any SP, but that doesn't seem as important.

Also, are you sure it's 220 SP for a sorc at level 1?

I took it from the wiki, I haven't a clue when that was last updated. It worked out something like 100 for first level sorc, 80 for magical training (automatically applied with first level sorc), 40 for 18 charisma (drow and WF should have different values). Also they reduced niacs to something like 4 sp, so 55 niacs and use the wand when it is cooling down (but have acid spray or a muckbane ready for oozes).

As far as melee apprentice sorcerers, I agree with you on fleshlings. Not so sure about warforged (robe of the apprentice adds a lot to lowbie fleshling sorc power). The few times I've played with warforged casters on Korthos I've always noticed that it seemed every mob needed multiple attacks with the niacs.

[sirgog]

On Alignment, IMO Chaotic Neutral is the best choice. (TN second best).

This is due to several bosses using Chaos Hammer, Unholy Blight, Anarchic, True Chaos and Unholy weapons. Lailat and the Demon of the Frenzied Blood are the most important.

No mobs in the game AFAIK use Axiomatic weapons, and very few cast spells that punish you for being Chaotic, whereas even Neutral players will occasionally take more than CN players from these effects.

Avoid Good alignments like the plague. Unholy Burst weapons are common on archers, and as a caster, you will often WANT archers hitting you.



Oh and drop Mental Toughness altogether. At low levels it doesn't grant much SP at all, and also low level casters function pretty well in a pinch using Echoes of Power and non-metamagiced spells. High level it is two spells only - slightly useful, but not even close to worth an entire feat.

[Isharah]

On Alignment, IMO Chaotic Neutral is the best choice. (TN second best).

This is due to several bosses using Chaos Hammer, Unholy Blight, Anarchic, True Chaos and Unholy weapons. Lailat and the Demon of the Frenzied Blood are the most important.

This is noted, thank you.

Since some have been arguing against Mental Toughness, what alternative do you suggest for human bonus feat at level 1?

Thanks.

[sirgog]

This is noted, thank you.

Since some have been arguing against Mental Toughness, what alternative do you suggest for human bonus feat at level 1?

Thanks.

While levelling: Nothing, take the 'higher level' feats earlier.

When nearing cap but ungeared: Skill Focus UMD

When capped and geared: A different Spell Focus feat, depending upon your preferred spells, or an extra Spell Penetration feat. As for which - that depends upon the content you run most.

[Isharah]

While levelling: Nothing, take the 'higher level' feats earlier.

So I guess the human bonus feat at level 1 can take on any value then, since the feats in the sequence are already taken right when they would be reasonably beneficial for the toon.

When nearing cap but ungeared: Skill Focus UMD

Noted, thanks for this.

When capped and geared: A different Spell Focus feat, depending upon your preferred spells, or an extra Spell Penetration feat. As for which - that depends upon the content you run most.

I think info on this is sufficient in the post as-is.

Thanks.

[DarkForte]

For that bonus feat, I'd take extend, even if just for the hagesplacements (since by cap you won't be using it in anything else).

[wax_on_wax_off]

Greater Spell Penetration I'd take on any sorcerer. Being able to bypass SR is crucial to landing no-save spells like Crushing despair, waves of exhaustion, energy drain and symbol of death in difficult content and ottos ball etc in moderate to difficult content.

Quicken spell is good for WF for reconstruct as an option.

Force of Personality is good for human sorc in level 1 slot especially as sorc is one of the better classes to solo cannith challenges where FoP is very valuable (90% of deaths in there were from hold for my sorc without FoP). Extend is the other option if you don't solo and want raids to like you (though it isn't necessarily valuable).

[Madryoch]

Very nice thread and nice planning.

For the extra feat imo either go for mental toughness since low lvl spells cost very little to use or for the UMD as was suggested.

There's no point in a sorc waving a gaxe in the lowest lvls since the only thing it does is slow a sorc down. Sorc sp at lvl one should be like 220 i think but i ll need to make a sorc lvl 1 to test it out for first life toon. As for the two lvls at low lvls 1 cone spell and niac's all u need then at the next lvls u can get expeditious retreat at lvl 2 and jump at lvl 3. The spells tend to cost ... 4 sp each so if by the time u get to spend 220ish sp using a 4 sp costing spell u are probably at the next shrine anyway.

Now regarding spell penetration and debuffs ... Yes crushing despair is nice but in most cases casting mass hold after crushing despair and then kiling the opponents tends to be more sp consuming than just nuking them after they are gathered. Then again most of the times i am thinking as if every sorc has at least one wiz past life. Waves is nice again but it's not half as useful as u make it appear since nowadays it doesn't slow bosses down so the stat damage alone is not enough to convince me to waste 1 feat for it nor a spell slot. Energy drain/enervation is the onlydebuff worth it. The other spells that benefit from it are instant kill spells and flesh to stone. Thing is each spell pen feat while nice , it only adds like 10% extra chance to make ur spells work. Translates 1 per 10 spells more on mobs with spell resistance. That 10% is nice when ur percentage to land a spell on a specific mob is very low like 30-40% . If u have that low a probability that ur spell will land ur method is not trustworthy anyway. If the percentage to succeed is like 80% then the difference from 100% is not that visible in the game considering that sorc have lower cooldowns on spells as well compared to wizards.

Regarding force of personality it is simply a wasted feat in my opinion. It's not serving any purpose other than helping u(still fail on a 1) not get held. Not many mobs use hold and the few in challenges that do so they can be foded easily anyway.Do u have a resistance +5 item equiped or a superior stability item if u are true neutral ? If not then perhaps that's what u were looking for and not 1 feat for that.

Finaly for extend at low lvls the extended version costs almost as much as the spell itself . When the spell lasts like 4 minutes (lvl 4 caster) u only have 1 lvl 2 spell to extend so ... so much for extended buffs... and later on the only usefulness it has is extended rage haste and displacement which is nice but i wouldn't waste one of the 8 possible feats on an already feat starved class for something like that.

[Isharah]

I took it from the wiki, I haven't a clue when that was last updated. It worked out something like 100 for first level sorc, 80 for magical training (automatically applied with first level sorc), 40 for 18 charisma (drow and WF should have different values).

You are right about this, it's indeed 220 at level 1.

[Jsbeer]

Very nice thread and nice planning.

For the extra feat imo either go for mental toughness since low lvl spells cost very little to use or for the UMD as was suggested.

Now regarding spell penetration and debuffs ... Yes crushing despair is nice but in most cases casting mass hold after crushing despair and then kiling the opponents tends to be more sp consuming than just nuking them after they are gathered. Then again most of the times i am thinking as if every sorc has at least one wiz past life. Waves is nice again but it's not half as useful as u make it appear since nowadays it doesn't slow bosses down so the stat damage alone is not enough to convince me to waste 1 feat for it nor a spell slot. Energy drain/enervation is the onlydebuff worth it. The other spells that benefit from it are instant kill spells and flesh to stone. Thing is each spell pen feat while nice , it only adds like 10% extra chance to make ur spells work. Translates 1 per 10 spells more on mobs with spell resistance. That 10% is nice when ur percentage to land a spell on a specific mob is very low like 30-40% . If u have that low a probability that ur spell will land ur method is not trustworthy anyway. If the percentage to succeed is like 80% then the difference from 100% is not that visible in the game considering that sorc have lower cooldowns on spells as well compared to wizards.

Regarding force of personality it is simply a wasted feat in my opinion. It's not serving any purpose other than helping u(still fail on a 1) not get held. Not many mobs use hold and the few in challenges that do so they can be foded easily anyway.Do u have a resistance +5 item equiped or a superior stability item if u are true neutral ? If not then perhaps that's what u were looking for and not 1 feat for that.

Finaly for extend at low lvls the extended version costs almost as much as the spell itself . When the spell lasts like 4 minutes (lvl 4 caster) u only have 1 lvl 2 spell to extend so ... so much for extended buffs... and later on the only usefulness it has is extended rage haste and displacement which is nice but i wouldn't waste one of the 8 possible feats on an already feat starved class for something like that.

I agree that while FoP and Extend are situationally useful, Sorcerers are feat-starved and so there are better choice.

However, I value the spell pen feats AND the spell pen enhancements very highly, the reason being that with these two feats and three enhancements (and the easy to get Magewright Spectacles) my Sorcerer's spell penetration is very high (30/31 I believe). This means that even on Epics I can usually no-fail the spell penetration check for Power Word Stun and Otto's Irresistible Dance, and these are the spells which you really, really need to go off first time to deal with highly dangerous casters ASAP. Spell penetration is also very useful for Waves of Exhaustion which can slow enemies and reduce (even bosses') attack rolls, damage and AC by 3 which helps your tank and melees a lot.

[Madryoch]

I agree that while FoP and Extend are situationally useful, Sorcerers are feat-starved and so there are better choice.

However, I value the spell pen feats AND the spell pen enhancements very highly, the reason being that with these two feats and three enhancements (and the easy to get Magewright Spectacles) my Sorcerer's spell penetration is very high (30/31 I believe). This means that even on Epics I can usually no-fail the spell penetration check for Power Word Stun and Otto's Irresistible Dance, and these are the spells which you really, really need to go off first time to deal with highly dangerous casters ASAP. Spell penetration is also very useful for Waves of Exhaustion which can slow enemies and reduce (even bosses') attack rolls, damage and AC by 3 which helps your tank and melees a lot.

I never said ditch spell pen. I just said that it is less mandatory than what people make it appear. I agree with u on the spell selection but the stat lowering is too small to notice on bosses for waves and ur melee shouldn't get hit anyways other than the tank. 3 damage per attack when a boss hits for over 50 (talking about the easiest ones here) or like 95 when shield blocking (for epic lotb with 25% mitigation and 28DR) and 3 attack bonus on the boss on a tank that is not ac based i don't think they make much of a difference. On top of that consider how many of the mobs u mentioned that require to be cced in such a manner posses any significant spell resistance for ur extra spell pen feat to matter. Other than drow there are very very few casters i can think of.

[Isharah]

Bump for gear feedback.

[Tid12]

Robe of Invulnerability for lv1-6/7, 5 DR makes those lvls go faster.

Maybe make a special note on the clickies for 75% damage (even for lower levels) also and eardweller, so newbie can understand what you are talking about.

Cunning trinket for the +100sp and the stalwart trinket for earthen guard are awesome at lv4, both from the cove.

Visor of the flesh render, ML 5, deathward clickie. Got from the end reward of Tangleroot gorge.

[Tid12]

Sorry for double post:

why Invulnerability is listed at lv5? You can use it from lv1 ^^