Should I TR? - Kensai Ftr w/ eSoS

[Khalyana]

Had a TWF fighter with MinII's that I switched to THF after getting epic antique GA and then eSoS. DPS doesn't seem that good compared to some pure Barb or 18Barb/2Ftr builds using THF that I see on YouTube, etc.

I asked a 5th life Barb on Cannith what he thought (2xFtr and 2xBarb past lives) and he said he preferred fighter, something about the PITA of all the frenzies/rages/etc to get max dps on barb. Havent rolled a barb yet so I'm looking for suggestions. What would you do? I'm VIP with 32pt. My fighter is on her 1st life only.

Gear breakdown is roughly:

Minos
Epic Calvalry Plate
Marilith Chain (non epic)
Tharnes Goggles
Levik bracers
Spectral gloves
TOD set (ring and neck)
TOD belt (+6 con and GFL)
Boots of propulsion
Epic cloak of Night (mabar)
Lit I GA
Lit I Falchion
MinII Kopesh
MinII Kopesh
Epic Antique GA
eSoS

[wax_on_wax_off]

From a pure DPS standpoint afaik pure fighter is slightly ahead vs 50% fort and barb is slightly ahead vs 0% fort. Overall I'd say that the DPS vs 50% fort is more valuable as that makes up the bulk of beatdowns (raid bosses).

I think I'd prefer fighter to have the option of including some feats like improved sunder, improved trip, sap, stunning blow etc.

[Candela90]

Honestly I never played a barb.
So can mostly talk of a fvs point of view.
Im not barb fan.

Most of them have no heal amp, no AC at all, dps of good build dps fighter is really like good build barb.
Barb cant really do more than just dps.
If I have to choose to party, where i need good dps between fighter / rogue/ monk / barb.
Barb always will be the last one.

Monk and fighter with quick gear switch can change from dps to tank mode.
Rogue will also do traps, assasinate, eventually sneak to get needed item (but in raid group its not happening a lot).
Light monk can also buff a party and occasionally save healer sp with casting alig or healing himself, dark one can instant kill things.
Monks can also stun.
Fighter have usefull combat feats with good DC.
Rogues mostly have good enough UMD to heal themselves in bad situation and pass usefull buffs from scrolls (e.g. silver on weapon when theres not arti).
+ rogues and monks have evasion.

Barb can only dps. And maybe barb usually have the biggest hp, but he also loose it the fastest way.
Compared to advantages of other classes barb seems poor to me.
Fighter vs barb is:
Possibility to switch from dps to tank and other way, combat feats and pretty good dps VS pretty good dps of barb.

[ChemE]

My kensai 3 fighter, sorrowanddoo, has almost the exact same set up as you plus an epic claw set. I like the dps of the esos. Usually 450-550 damage on held mobs but with a crit range of 14-20 it sometimes crits 5-8 times in a row. I have been considering tr'ing into a barb but I really like this toon's dps and flexibility a lot.

[SupTyr]

Kensai with GreatSword focus is IMO the best melee class for DPS & (epic) trash. You're only missing one thing in your gear setup: Terror from Mindsunder. Compared to eSoS it's easy to get.

Be sure to max out the speed boost enhancement line, IC: slashing feat, all the kensai GS enhancements and some haste clickies. You will score more criticals and PKs than any other melee. Oh and cleave isn't a bad feat when you wield Terror. For fear immune mobs (bosses, scorps) switch to eSoS.

[smithj_2020]

Truthfully its all dependent on the player and what he/she prefers, I love barbs, I currently have 2 TR'd 1 has PL: fighter and barb, other has PL: 2-barb, 1 fighter...

Both are Horcs and i easily maintain 80+ str on both. I prefer to use them for epics and raids mostly, as they tend to take damage, simply from no AC, tho with 900+ hps and the damage they do from eSoS, and eGA I tend to destroy whatever is hitting me before it can kill me. I actually have improved sunder on both to simply reduce fort on bosses and epic mobs.

I think a barb with 2-fighter PL and 2 Barb PL is max dps, a Horc with right gear can maintain str in 80's + and can even obtain str to 100+ and lets face it that dominates everything, and with frenzy and death frenzy a double madstoned, raging barb is almost unbeatable when it comes to dps i feel.

[Arshan]

To repeat what everyone has said, it depends on what you want to do.

I've played capstoned and splashed ftr and barb, THF and TWF, using best weapons of each kind, and i have to admit i prefered playing the fighter for its tactics until i understood barb could perform exactly the same with some goodies in addition. Given your gear, both are good choices, but if you plan more TR, barb PL is usually more useful

If you prefer HUGE numbers, and pure unleash of dps on packs of mobs, go for a simple 20 barb Half Orc eSOS. As far as i remember, playing it while eating or with one hand, he was still doing way more than anyone else in party. Easy to get 1500+ crits, the damage boost IV applies very nicely now. It has to be taken in consideration while it used to be just +4 dmg, now it is +25% dmg for 20 seconds. Glancing blows are awesome too. However you'll see many barbs thinking they just have to be a pack of HP swinging a sword, while they can't do way more with some tactics but are limitated by the lack of feats (i was not taking thoughness on my barb and still getting 800+ HP raging). A huge mistake of many barbs is also to think that their frenzies are killing them fast.. .but when you have 800+ HP that's not to be taken into consideration imo, especially on THF. And it's a lot of dps right there.

On the other hand, kensai will have a higher crit range, nice doublestrike chances, haste boost IV (!), and a lot of goodies to specalize you with your favourite weapon. You can probably get some failless tactics that are really useful in raids, and that will be relatively more efficient than on a barb (while barbs shouldnt have any tactics DC issues but well...). I think fighter will perform better than barb if you miss some gear, for it grants a lot of bonuses by itself.

Fighter is imo a wee funnier to play (barb 20 THF is quite boring...), however, i think a well built/played/geared barb will be ahead of a well built/played/geared ftr, just because good barbs can overcome the difficulties any fighter are already overcoming (that wasnt clear AT ALL...). I mean that as far as fighters are better on high fortification mobs than barb, a good barb should have improved sunder. 100ish str reachable and no tactic feat is just sad.

To put it in a nutshell, regardless of real dps output, fighter are always rather easy to play, while it's easy to play a barb, but it's rather hard to play WELL a barb. It implies knowing what you can do and when, because their HP are dropping a wee faster.

I would personnaly go for barb in your case since you have eSOS. At worse, try it, like it or not, and TR into something you prefer

20 barb Half-orc
20 str 18 Con, rest wherever you find it fancy (cha for intimi, dext for reflex save)

Power attack
Cleave
Thoughness (drop it at cap for improved sunder)
Two handed fighting
Improved two handed fighting
Improved critical : slashing
Greater two handed fighting

Some would say you could get 2 fighter levels for 2 more feats, but i assume the capstone is too freaking good to be given up this way.

For some numbers, my barb with eSOS was hitting for 110-120ish base dmg and 70ish on glancing blows (80ish % chance of proc).

[grodon9999]

From a pure DPS standpoint afaik pure fighter is slightly ahead vs 50% fort and barb is slightly ahead vs 0% fort. Overall I'd say that the DPS vs 50% fort is more valuable as that makes up the bulk of beatdowns (raid bosses).

I think I'd prefer fighter to have the option of including some feats like improved sunder, improved trip, sap, stunning blow etc.

I don't know about that . . . the Supreme cleave spamming I think puts the barb OTT.

[Arshan]

I don't know about that . . . the Supreme cleave spamming I think puts the barb OTT.

+1 : eDA, 10 hold mobs, supreme cleave critted on these... That's like 20k damage in one second... Ok very situationnal but still. Supreme cleave is indeed something to take into account.

In addition, if we consider that mobs with > 50% fort are usually bosses, it implies very often sustain dps. Kensai is still about burst dps with haste boost, while even if barb can use his damage boost, frenzies are always there.

I dont really remember how well glancing blows are doing on a kensai though

[Kinerd]

There is no palpable difference in single target raw DPS between a fighter and a barb, 20 to 20, THF to THF, gear to gear.
TRing through fighter or barb lives will have very little if any impact on your DPS.

With all that said, you may as well TR through a barb life to see if you like it better. Forget about DPS. Nobody posts videos on youtube when they do below their average DPS. Self-selection is always going to make those posts above their personal averages. Even if you could compare it to your average without rigorous data collection, you would always come up wanting.

[jwdaniels]

The biggest problem with a pure barb is that you end up doing as much damage to yourself as your opponents do and the only thing you can do about it is chug pots because you can't use clickies while raged. The class isn't very self-sufficient, but if you have people that you group with consistently it's awesome.

Fighters are far more tactical when needed (they have 11 more feats to play with and can use clickies) but don't have a way of getting a x5/x6 crit multiplier so you're not going to see the same sorts of ridiculous numbers over the heads of things. They do, however, hit very hard.

[Malky]

I don't know about that . . . the Supreme cleave spamming I think puts the barb OTT.

Terror + sup. cleave = fun