necro water savant build

[wax_on_wax_off]

TY wax, adjusted build to reflect the SLA free meta magic options by dropping force of personality for heighten spell at 20th. Hopefully loosing the extra will saves won't hurt.

I'd suggest to have heighten at level 9 or at latest 12. While necromancy isn't that useful at cap to a sorcerer without Wizard/fvs PLs in difficult content it's great while leveling up and it's great to get heighten for those as soon as possible (14 for circle of death) and also for SLA's (which will benefit from heighten from level 6 to level 20 quite drastically).

Heighten will do more for your first SLA than max and empower combined (as successful saves against it will make damage 0).

I'd suggest as your feat list something like:
1: Maximise
1: Force of Personality
3: Empower
6: Spell Focus: Conjuration
9: Heighten
12: Toughness
15: Spell Penetration
18: Greater Spell Penetration

There really isn't much flexibility beyond Force of Personality (which I think is a great choice for challenges mainly) and the choice between conjuration and evocation (id say conjuration is slightly stronger unless you plan to spend some time as an air savant).

[Isharah]

Since your build won't work well without good end gear anyway, I suggest you make the build assuming that you will get all the gear you need in the near future (ex. exceptional stats).

I suggest going like this.


Starting stats
Max con and cha, dump all else wherever.
I suggest int and use bull's strength wands and carry lesser resto pots while leveling up.


Skills
Max out concentration and UMD on every level up.
Extra points into balance or bluff/intim/diplo depending on your intended playstyle.


Feats

Your Current

1. Toughness
2. Extend
3. Force of Personality -> Heighten (20)
4. Maximize
5. SF: Necro
6. SF: Evoc
7. GSF: Necro
8. Empower

Suggestion

1. Toughness
2. Empower
3. Past Life: Sorc -> Spell Penetration (20)
4. Maximize
5. SF: Evoc
6. SF: Necro
7. Heighten
8. GSF: Necro

DCs

Aim for 40 base cha
18 - base
05 - level ups
07 - item (preferably Epic Helm of Frost)
02 - exc +2 (ToD ring)
01 - exc +1 (ToD ring or epic augment)
03 - sorc enhancements
01 - human enhancement
01 - litany of the dead trinket
02 - +2 tome
----
40 - total unbuffed cha
02 - yugo pot
02 - ship buff
----
44 - 17 cha mod*

Necro DC:
10 - base
09 - spell level
17 - cha mod
02 - item
01 - SF: necro
01 - GSF: necro
----
40 - Necromancy DC

Evoc DC:
10 - base
09 - spell level
17 - cha mod
02 - item
01 - SF: evoc
01 - passive sorc PL
----
40 - Evocation DC

* Can push cha mod to 18, and effectively DCs to 41 if you obtain a +4 tome.


Cheers.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Since your build won't work well without good end gear anyway, I suggest you make the build assuming that you will get all the gear you need in the near future (ex. exceptional stats).

I suggest going like this.


Starting stats
Max con and cha, dump all else in int.
Use bull's strength wands and carry lesser resto pots while leveling up.


Skills
Max out concentration and UMD on every level up


Feats

Your Current

1. Toughness
2. Extend
3. Force of Personality -> Heighten (20)
4. Maximize
5. SF: Necro
6. SF: Evoc
7. GSF: Necro
8. Empower

Suggestion

1. Toughness
2. Empower
3. Past Life: Sorc -> Spell Penetration (20)
4. Maximize
5. SF: Evoc
6. SF: Necro
7. Heighten
8. GSF: Necro

DCs

Aim for 40 base cha
18 - base
05 - level ups
07 - item (preferably Epic Helm of Frost)
02 - exc +2 (ToD ring)
01 - exc +1 (ToD ring or epic augment)
03 - sorc enhancements
01 - human enhancement
01 - litany of the dead trinket
02 - +2 tome
----
40 - total unbuffed cha
02 - yugo pot
02 - ship buff
----
44 - 17 cha mod*

Necro DC:
10 - base
09 - spell level
17 - cha mod
02 - item
01 - SF: necro
01 - GSF: necro
----
40 - Necromancy DC

Evoc DC:
10 - base
09 - spell level
17 - cha mod
02 - item
01 - SF: evoc
01 - passive sorc PL
----
40 - Evocation DC

* Can push cha mod to 18, and effectively DCs to 41 if you obtain a +4 tome.


Cheers.

40 necro DC will do jack without effective spell penetration in many areas of end game content - particularly the upcoming U13 and expansion. You've got 25 SP there so to get 30 you'll need 2 tier 3 alchemical items from lord of blades raid to just scrape even with what a first life character should aim for. Go for the double spell pen and drop the necromancy feats unless you only plan to run normal shroud (but there spell pen is more important than DC). The reality is that with a low spell pen and DC you'll be better off using DPS spells in general as either the mobs will die quickly (low HP) or they'll save vs the insta kills. This at least has been my experience with my sorcerer which I've played extensively recently.

[Isharah]

I've been playing a sorcerer for a long time already and I've tried many feat and enhancement variants on it.

At the moment, spell DC is a bigger problem than spell penetration is. With a GSP8 item, a spell penetration feat, and a tier or two of spell penetration enhancements, the OP shouldn't have trouble unless he is dealing with devils in epic Chrono.

Let's admit -- this build is not likely to work without a few wizard past lives; we are trying to make the best out of what the OP has at the moment. Nobody knows for sure *yet* the changes that will be required when the Forgotten Realms updates come up, so before we suggest gimpy builds to other people I think we should wait first until we have more info on what it brings -- then we can begin steering builds to become more prepared for what's to come.

By the way. I am surprised you insist on getting Force of Personality for such a feat-starved class and an even more feat-starved build.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I've been playing a sorcerer for a long time already and I've tried many feat and enhancement variants on it.

At the moment, spell DC is a bigger problem than spell penetration is. With a GSP8 item, a spell penetration feat, and a tier or two of spell penetration enhancements, the OP shouldn't have trouble unless he is dealing with devils in epic Chrono.

Let's admit -- this build is not likely to work without a few wizard past lives; we are trying to make the best out of what the OP has at the moment. Nobody knows for sure *yet* the changes that will be required when the Forgotten Realms updates come up, so before we suggest gimpy builds to other people I think we should wait first until we have more info on what it brings -- then we can begin steering builds to become more prepared for what's to come.

By the way. I am surprised you insist on getting Force of Personality for such a feat-starved class and an even more feat-starved build.

I don't insist on FoP but after reading the OP I listed it as the optional feat as the OP makes a decent case for it and my recent experiences soloing cannith challenges makes me consider it viable (I might even swap extend to it if I do another stint in the challenges).

Spell pen applies to all spells while SF:Necro has very limited applications. Waves of Exhaustion, Otto's Disco Ball, Ottos Irrestible Dance, Energy Drain, Symbol of Death, Power Word: Kill and other spells all don't have saves but are fabulous at debuffing and immobising enemies possibly in preparation for nuke or insta kill spells.

A sorcerer specced for necromancy without wizard or fvs PLs is going to end in disappointment without the sort of gear that you can only get in content that such a build is really going to struggle in.

[SirValentine]

I suggest going like this.
<snip>
Past Life: Sorc -> Spell Penetration (20)

You can't swap Past Life: Sorc for anything other than Spell Focus Conjuration or Evocation, otherwise you lose your Savant, don't you? I haven't played a Sorc yet, but I thought one of those three was a pre-req for Savant.

[Isharah]

You can't swap Past Life: Sorc for anything other than Spell Focus Conjuration or Evocation, otherwise you lose your Savant, don't you? I haven't played a Sorc yet, but I thought one of those three was a pre-req for Savant.

PL:sorc qualifies you for the second tier of Air or Fire savant.

In terms of feats, Water savant requires the following (DDOWiki):

Tier 1: One of

• empower spell
• maximize spell

Tier 2: Access to tier 1 plus one of

• SF: conjuration
• SF: evoc

Tier 3: No additional feat requirements


PL:sorc is useful for leveling due to the SP increase and 10-charge clicky it offers, but by the time the toon caps the build focus shifts from improving capacity to being able to land DC-based (and SR-based) spells. Hence the feat exchange.

[masterblaster-1]

Heh, you folks rapidly went over my head with your advanced planning. But Some of it does make sense to me.

The biggests change is that I'll be going to a wizard for my TR. It seems pretty obvious to get the best D/C's and spell pen, it's just manditory. In keeping with the idea of something that can still nuke reasonable well, I've gone with an archmage plan (it's posted elsewhere).

Thanks again for the great advice folks.