What exactly do these buffs work against?

[mikarddo]

Greetings,

I am wondering about the exact effect of some of my buffs as a cleric. The ones I am uncertain about are:

Magic Circle Against Evil: I believe this provides immunity against Command / Greater Command but does the immunity extend to other spells?

Freedom of Movement: The wiki mentions Entangled, Paralyzed, or Solid Fog but what exact spells would that be? Web, Hold Person/Monster, which other?

Death Ward. The wiki has a very detailed list. What I am mostly wondering is if there are any insta-death spells that DW does not give immunity against?

SR. I have a basic understanding of what this does. I am wondering though which exact spells this protects against that are not already covered by the immunities given by one of the three buffs mentioned above (Magic Circle, FoM and DW).

[taurean430]

Greetings,

I am wondering about the exact effect of some of my buffs as a cleric. The ones I am uncertain about are:

Magic Circle Against Evil: I believe this provides immunity against Command / Greater Command but does the immunity extend to other spells?

Freedom of Movement: The wiki mentions Entangled, Paralyzed, or Solid Fog but what exact spells would that be? Web, Hold Person/Monster, which other?

Death Ward. The wiki has a very detailed list. What I am mostly wondering is if there are any insta-death spells that DW does not give immunity against?

SR. I have a basic understanding of what this does. I am wondering though which exact spells this protects against that are not already covered by the immunities given by one of the three buffs mentioned above (Magic Circle, FoM and DW).

I am on my first cup of joe for the day so bear with me. Off the top of my head:

Magic Circle also protects against dominate often cast at players by vampires.

Freedom of movement also works against slow. And there is nothing sadder in this game than webbed casters and slowed melee.

Death Ward you pretty much have covered. it doesn't cover enemy casters using Waves of Fatigue/Exhaustion, or most types of stat damage. Though it does block the stat damage from shadows and ghostly baddies. Restoration is the reaction to these effects when they hit the party.

I <3 spell resistance. No really, I do. I give it to any party I join. The argument exists that it isn't worthwhile but I disagree and use it in my mass buffing routine. I've seen those blue shields (blocked by spell resistance) go off far too often to believe otherwise. Most fighters and barbs in this game have horrid will saves. They are subject to being held, slowed, commanded, etc... Many melee builds completely ignore investment into will saves. The min/max model is what they follow. So the majority of players in this game are completely dependent upon your spells to keep them from spending most of their questing time on their backs. What you choose to buff the party with has a direct relationship on how much it will cost to keep them alive. Thus buffing in a way that covers most effects that enemy mobs use is ideal and pays itself forward.

[Infant]

Protection from Evil also blocks one of the Mindflayers dominate Effects.

And, if I'm not mistaken, some of the Chaos Beholder abilities and Succubi abilities.

Infant

[aristarchus1000]

I am on my first cup of joe for the day so bear with me. Off the top of my head:

Magic Circle also protects against dominate often cast at players by vampires.

Freedom of movement also works against slow. And there is nothing sadder in this game than webbed casters and slowed melee.

Death Ward you pretty much have covered. it doesn't cover enemy casters using Waves of Fatigue/Exhaustion, or most types of stat damage. Though it does block the stat damage from shadows and ghostly baddies. Restoration is the reaction to these effects when they hit the party.

I <3 spell resistance. No really, I do. I give it to any party I join. The argument exists that it isn't worthwhile but I disagree and use it in my mass buffing routine. I've seen those blue shields (blocked by spell resistance) go off far too often to believe otherwise. Most fighters and barbs in this game have horrid will saves. They are subject to being held, slowed, commanded, etc... Many melee builds completely ignore investment into will saves. The min/max model is what they follow. So the majority of players in this game are completely dependent upon your spells to keep them from spending most of their questing time on their backs. What you choose to buff the party with has a direct relationship on how much it will cost to keep them alive. Thus buffing in a way that covers most effects that enemy mobs use is ideal and pays itself forward.

I see the SR bubble go off as well, but the question is whether it is blocking anything that you would have been immune to anyway. Every time I check it is a hold or command spell which is covered by FoM or death ward or protection from evil. It also blocks your own holy aura buff (unless they have fixed that).

In epics, the casters are CR 35, so SR is pretty much useless in that context.

[Theolin]

DW does not work against: mindflayer mind eating,

Freedom does not work against: earth eles, taken sticky stuff, chains,

probably others I have forgotten

[taurean430]

I see the SR bubble go off as well, but the question is whether it is blocking anything that you would have been immune to anyway. Every time I check it is a hold or command spell which is covered by FoM or death ward or protection from evil. It also blocks your own holy aura buff (unless they have fixed that).

In epics, the casters are CR 35, so SR is pretty much useless in that context.

I'm not aware of the Holy Aura behavior being addressed yet. And I still do see the blue shields go off in epics, though not nearly as often.

Call me crazy, but I am a firm believer in buffing. As long as people in parties I join are willing to stand still for 20 seconds after entering; they receive both mass buffs against most enemy mob effects and individual buffs catered to optimizing their performance. Some parties need everything because they are ungeared or noobish. And some need nearly nothing.

Can't argue your point really. But I buff in this game like I practice in rl. A proactive approach takes slightly more time, but saves you grief later

[mikarddo]

Can't argue your point really. But I buff in this game like I practice in rl. A proactive approach takes slightly more time, but saves you grief later

Could you mention any one effect that you believe SR works against that isnt already covered by immunities from other buffs?

[taurean430]

http://ddowiki.com/page/Spell
Loosely paraphrased:

Spell Resistance (SR) is a special anti-spell defense. Spell Resistance is like an Armor Class against magical attacks, in that it adds an extra roll that the caster has to make for his magic to "hit" that target.

Spell Resistance only matters if the spell being cast is one that can be stopped by Spell Resistance. In DDO, spells that most purely cause damage ignore Spell Resistance.

So basically, it's an additional defense against spells cast at party members that have primary effects other than damage. In the case of being dispelled it will be taken most often before any of the other buffs. And yes it surely will be superceded in many cases by other buffs that give outright immunity. However being dispelled is an issue in some content. If the enemy caster has to make additional rolls to dispel multiple effects they must first beat the SR you gave your party member until it is dispelled. Buffs last longer, essentially.

As I said, I use it and many don't. However, in my time playing this game I have noticed a many more helpless melee or webbed casters when I wasn't at the helm on my divines. I'm not a fan of having to go double time to make up for the loss in party effectiveness from otherwise helpless fellow party members. That's been my observation insofar.

The argument persists that this is a useless spell. I don't counter argue it. I simply point out that I've noticed that it works and is an additional defense I can give my party for little cost to me. And anything that allows me to have to heal/status remove less is a good thing imo.

[mikarddo]

Thanks, I was asking out of ignorance and the dispell part is definitely something for me to consider so I am happy you took the time to explain your thoughts.

[Sarisa]

The Holy Aura bug is not yet fixed.

If you're seeing SR bubbles in epics, it's from a Holy Aura cast, from a low CR not-really-epic mob, or somebody using the VoD Longsword on a pure Pali. There are a few low CR mobs around in epic, especially in the challenges. Anything with a high CR, unless DDO actually takes racial levels into account (making a CR 32 Ogre Shaman actually a caster level 25 mob), will automatically bypass the spell.

Note in particular that Dispel does not have an SR check.

Non-epic, it can help, especially on lower difficulty levels where the mob CR's/CL's are more evenly matched against your caster levels. It's exceptional at low levels, because you can get a few items (Scarab of Protection, Phiarlan Mirror Cloak, Infested Armor) that are far above the curve and pretty much make you untouchable. Its usefulness remains while leveling higher, though less so on hard or elite. Permanent SR (Drow race or Monk class) can make certain dispel heavy areas like Coal Chamber much easier (the spell won't due to the dispels).

SR will block, if it works, and if the caster isn't high enough to auto-bypass it, these spells you can't be immune to via another buff:

• Crushing Despair (I've had it used in over 15 quests from Tear of Dakhaan through Maraud the Mines on my TR, not even counting the many epics I see it used in). One cast of Crushing Despair can be "absorbed" with the Good Hope buff, and can be removed by casting Good Hope.
• Symbols (Pain/Weakness/Persuasion/Fear/Death). I don't recall ever seeing a mob cast Symbol of Death, but the rest are used. Symbol of Pain is a nasty one on epic because it lasts for over 8 minutes and there is no answer to it. The Tiefling's caster level is way too high for SR to work.
• Ray of Enfeeblement.
• Waves of Fatigue/Exhaustion. Warforged are immune if I recall correctly.
• Dance effects.

There are probably a couple I forgot.

I was told Telekinesis can be blocked by SR, but I have not tested it.

Overall, if you are in a group where the caster mobs aren't too high above you, and you know one of those spells will be cast, the SR buff can be useful. Otherwise, don't bother.

Protection From Evil is mainly used for the Command protection (the spell, wands, clickie, or potions; NOT an item or the ship buff). It also grants a small AC bonus, and protects against most charm and dominate effects. It definitely works against Vampires, and can be quite important against them. I assume it works on the Chaos Beholder's odd-charm effect, but don't know for certain (I kill them as soon as possible because of their Prismatic Spray). It does not, however, work against a Succubus's Change of Heart.

Death Ward was mostly covered, however note that it will not protect you against the Violet ray in a Prismatic Spray or similar spell (Chaos Beholders are the main enemy casters of this). That will instant-kill you with no way to prevent it (not even Boots of Anchoring). Note that while most undead based stat or level damage is blocked (Shadows, Wights, Wraiths, Messenger of Pits), a Vampire's CON drain is not. Mobs using stat damage weapons (Amrath Trogs, Kai-Teng in Litany) also will bypass Death Ward.

Freedom of Movement works against:
Fog's slow effects (Solid Fog is the main one), but not against the other effects of a fog.
Grease.
Hold Person or Hold Monster.
Most Paralyze effects, there are just very few of these in the game (I can't think of any besides Kai-Teng).
Webs.
Slow spell (Efreeti are the main casters).
Sleep (VoN4).

It does not work against:
Earthgrab, though it once did.
Ghoul Touch paralyze, and the Quori paralyze effect. These are treated different from a typical Paralyze.
Dazes (Soundburst, Greater Shout, Electric Loop) or Stuns (Power Word Stun, Stunning Blow).
As mentioned, it also does not work against "sticky" effects, like from a Taken or Mimic.
It also, as mentioned, does not work on Binding or Illusionary Chains (Horned Devils, Partycrashers).
Dance.

[mikarddo]

Lots of great info, thank you very much.

[Diyon]

Pretty sure deathward also doesn't block trap the soul.

[Matuse]

Pretty sure deathward also doesn't block trap the soul.

Epic ward didn't protect against this, pretty sure Death Ward does.

But...are there any monsters that use this? I can't recall ever seeing it.

[Munkenmo]

Could you mention any one effect that you believe SR works against that isnt already covered by immunities from other buffs?

Dispel magic.
telekinesis

[Viisari]

I <3 spell resistance. No really, I do. I give it to any party I join. The argument exists that it isn't worthwhile but I disagree and use it in my mass buffing routine.

It isn't worth it for epics or other content where mob CR is consistently over 30.

If this is not the case then it's a good spell.

Many melee builds completely ignore investment into will saves. The min/max model is what they follow. So the majority of players in this game are completely dependent upon your spells to keep them from spending most of their questing time on their backs.

There is absolutely no reason to focus on will saves because almost every spell/effect that involves rolling a will save can be negated with an item or a buff.

[Sarisa]

Epic ward didn't protect against this, pretty sure Death Ward does.

But...are there any monsters that use this? I can't recall ever seeing it.

Trap the Soul is not protected by Death Ward, but no mob currently casts it. Nothing besides will saves will stop it.

Dispel magic.

Dispel Magic does not have an SR check.

[taurean430]

It isn't worth it for epics or other content where mob CR is consistently over 30.

If this is not the case then it's a good spell.



There is absolutely no reason to focus on will saves because almost every spell/effect that involves rolling a will save can be negated with an item or a buff.

I can only respond by saying that I don't build my melee that way. None of them require buffs from others and become helpless without babysitters.

While it is true that the min/maxers ignore what would essentially make them useless in pnp - it is also true that being able to reasonably see after yourself has a value all it's own.

I would also add that in the overwhelming majority of quests in this game, players will not encounter CR 30+ casting mobs. Therefore it still has a value, no?

[Munkenmo]

Dispel Magic does not have an SR check.

Last time i checked this in the pvp pit with it definately seemed to, i remember seeing the blue sheild on cryol.

I'd have to go test it again before i'd argue against you.

[Sarisa]

Last time i checked this in the pvp pit with it definately seemed to, i remember seeing the blue sheild on cryol.

I'd have to go test it again before i'd argue against you.

It definitely doesn't have an SR check in normal play, PvP may work different.



Greater Dispel'ed the devil twice, then did a Greater Command to show the SR line in the combat log. No Spell Pen check on either Dispel, was one on the Command. Normal Dispel Magic also does not have an SR check.

[sweez]

LoB casts symbol of death.

Spell resistance is basically useless at end-game, other than for griefing players who want holy aura In leveling content it can be handy I guess, if you don't have access to fom/dw.