Can 10k stars, manyshot, and endless fusillade be synergized?

[savingsoul]

[EDIT: OP edited to better reflect actual costs to ki, esp. actual cooldowns in ki.]

Can 10k stars, manyshot, and endless fusillade be synergized?

Here's one opinion:

At best I see a window to use the repeating crossbow for about 15 seconds of every 2 minutes. Something like:
1. 20 seconds of manyshot
2. 10 seconds of melee (probably not enough Ki otherwise)
3. 30 seconds of 10k stars
4. 10 seconds of repeating crossbow
5. 7 seconds of Endless Fusillade
6. 13 seconds to build Ki
7. 30 seconds of 10k stars
8. Go to 1.

...

Overall, is 17 seconds of crossbow use every 2 minutes worth what you lose in damage and utility on the bow that you use for 80 seconds of every 2 minutes at least? Slayer arrows on a bow aren't that bad anyway without the boosts.

Uzy VII (see "UZY" via my signature below) -- which is a crazy build that started as a joke and has 10k stars, MS, and EF -- increases the max length of sustained/continuous boosts to 57 secs from 50 secs when all boosts are available (while there is admittedly a 2-3 second loading time for EF). That's a 14% increase in terms of max high DPS boost time over standard 10k stars/manyshot monkcher builds (with the exception of Monkcheri Amour [see my signature], which has the Kensei II power boost).

Assuming that 10k stars, MS, and EF all outperform melee in terms of DPS, Uzy VI and VII increase the possibility that one of these DPS boosts will be available *when enemies are targetable* and thereby increase DPS. The shorter and more intermittent battles are, the more this will be true; the more scattered enemies are (causing you to retarget), the more this will be true.

I'm reasoning this way:

Let's assume for the purposes of theorizing that manyshot, endless fusillade, and 10k stars are roughly equal in terms of DPS or at least that they can be tweaked to be equal.

THE STRATEGY:
1 if you spot enemies at a distance, and if you expect the battle to last at least 57 secs, then
1.1 if you have enough ki, then 30 secs of 10k stars
1.2 if you have manyshot available, then 20 seconds of manyshot
1.3 if endless fulsillade is available, then 7 secs of EF
1.4 recursively *melee or use normal ranged only while EF, MS, and 10k stars are unavailable -- giving preference to the one that is the best bargain in terms of ki should more than one be available*. [see recursive process below]
2 if you expect a < 57 sec total battle or are already close enough for melee, then jump to 1.4

----------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------
THE RECURSIVE PROCESS DURING SUSTAINED BATTLE:

Let's say EF is *worth* 7ki (as it is 1/3 the length of 10k stars); manyshot is *worth* at least 20 secs of winddown on ki, plus it is 2/3 the length of 10k stars - let's say 15ki; and 10k stars is *worth* 23ki (20ki + 30 secs of windown in ki).

Let's break it down:
10k stars is going to *cost* you 20-23ki; if your total ki is >= 20ki and 10k stars is available, then you should activate 10k stars.
Manyshot is going to *cost* you 20 secs of winddown on you ki; if your estimated loss in ki is <= 15ki and you have MS available, then you should activate MS.
Endless fusillade is going to *cost* you your total ki; if your total ki is <= 7 and EF is available, then you should activate EF.

Boost/Worth/Cost/Strategy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10k stars/25ki/20-23ki/if your total ki is >= 20 and 10k stars is available, then you should activate 10k stars.
MS/15ki/20 secs of winddown in ki/if your estimated loss in ki is <= 15ki and you have MS available, then you should activate MS.
EF/7ki/total ki/if your total ki is <= 7 and EF is available, then you should activate EF.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Some relevant questions are (1) what is the average length of a battle? and (2) what is the average time spent between battles [which allows for cooldowns or causes winddown in ki]?

Another relevant question is how much must manyshot and 10k stars (str, wis) be weakened in order for them to be equalized with endless fusillade (int)? This has bearing on a pure monkcher as well: *How much must 10k stars (wis, str) be weakened in order for it to be equalized with manyshot (str)?*

In my latest updates to Uzy VII and Uzy VI, the wisdom and str are comparable to a pure monkcher (see, for example, the Monkcheri Amour link in my signature below), so there hasn't been a major sacrifice to the damage of a bow. When addressing Uzy VII, many people have complained about the necessary point spread between int, str, and wis, but I'm willing to bet that even if you start with low int endless fusillade stil procs well at endgame when you have significantly boosted int with items and such. The more buffable or enhanceable any one stat becomes, the less significant becomes your starting stat (due to decreasing marginal utility). What people underappreciate perhaps is how much Uzy VII fully leverages ranged combat feats, which was really the full Uzy line's initial inspiration.

Having said all that, my analysis has one serioius challenge: slaying arrows. They tip the balance so far in favor of longbow with MS/10k stars that I'm not sure adding EF can compete.

Ultimately, maybe all that is required for some gain in DPS versus the standard monkcher builds is (1) that EF provides *more DPS than melee*, (2) max boosted DPS time increases significantly [14%], and (3) the possiblity of a boost being available when enemies are engaged increases, rather than that EF DPS be fully on a par with 10k stars/manyshot?

Help!

Comments/critiques would be greatly appeciated.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I tried reading this and gave up. The easy conclusion here is that theory crafting can only go so far and at some point you've got to actually play the game.

[savingsoul]

I tried reading this and gave up. The easy conclusion here is that theory crafting can only go so far and at some point you've got to actually play the game.

Yes, I completely realize that I'm ultimately only going to address this by trying it. I'm playing, I'm playing I know it may be a tragic endeavor, but I'm going to try it. I'm currently on at level 7 on Uzy VII, but I'll provide updates on my progress [see the Uzy VII thread via my signature for the latest report]. In the meantime, any helpful comments or threads would be greatly appreciated.

[savingsoul]

I realize now that the estimated winddowns in ki I used in the OP were greatly exagerated [and I've edited it accordingly]. That analysis has nevertheless proven to be quite fruitful. My experience suggests so far that optimal results on a 10k stars, MS, and EF build -- like Uzy VI and VII -- will be obtained at endgame mainly by only pulling out an xbow when endless fusillade is available and ki is roughly <= 7. At the end of the day, wax_on's analysis was just as abstract as mine, especially as his analysis does not take into account the intermittent nature of battles along with the fact that, even within a given battle, enemies are rarely continously engaged. The Uzy builds can use this to their advantage, switching between weapons and using available boosts according to the concrete situation at hand.

[Titus_Ovid]

manyshot doesn't work with crossbows afaik. Same with 10k Stars.

[DrNuegebauer]

manyshot doesn't work with crossbows afaik. Same with 10k Stars.

I THINK he knows that. This concept involves switching over to a crossbow occasionally to boost ranged DPS. (ie, to make a viable ranged toon).


The only question I have with the theory is that it seems to make assumptions based on null switch time/ activation time.
The "57 second" schedule would probably look more like a minute?



One other factor = haste boost? Does this stack or provide another option?