You've Got Your Mario in My DDO!

[~lyonav]

Perhaps it had to happen. Perhaps the format makes it inevitable. It began with the festival events and has taken root and blossomed into the challenge system. DDO feels increasingly like an arcade game -- an advanced, graphically compelling arcade game, mind you, but an arcade game nonetheless.

Grinding quests for XP and loot, equipping new characters with hand-me-down power items and limitless bank accounts, bantering the numerical perfection of the "chosen builds", are fine and appealing for many. The challenge system, PVP, and the various events may attract these and others to gather further unique loot and unleash the undeniable power of their uberbuilds. I certainly won't begrudge anyone their preferences.

I would ask, however, that the game not continue to slide down the path toward just another elaborate arcade game with only the barest pretense of weaving interesting story lines together. As it is, this gaming format makes this perhaps the most significant challenge of all -- at least for the designers -- and I raise my sword in salute to those who would arise to see that the game re-examine its current trends and lead us through good stories as much as through mazes of cheeky kobolds.

[articwarrior]

That, sir, was a very well written post, and I do agree completely. DDO has become too much of an arcade game, perhaps of Warner Bros. influence on the developers? Whatever the case may be, I feel the same, they must take a step back and examine how they approach their plot within DDO and the steps they need to take to achieve that story line.

oh yea, +1

[AMDarkwolf]

Don't take this the wrong way, but would you really prefer the game to be more 'chanced' based, more 'rolls' and less about reflex and skill?

Do we really want a game where we simply make each and every challenge a 'stand and beatdown, winner is last one standing / made the best/highest rolls' ?

I don't. I'm getting old and crappy with my reflexes, but games like this KEEP them reflexes somewhat normal. I don't want nothing more than a rolling fest. I enjoy the 'arcade' aspect of the game, and would VERY MUCH like them to continue that.

More action, more of the 'twitch', and more of the fast moving combat please. (TBH its the ONE AND ONLY reason me, and MANY others keep at it in DDO, or keep returning. The combat/interface system and the 'arcade' feeling keeps many ppl here.)

[FengXian]

I think it was more about the storyline.

OP is not against min-maxing builds nor against "mario skills", he hates kobolds! I agree, while kobolds are fun and everything some challenges I've played remind me of Crash Bandicoot. Loved it but it doesn't really belong here :/

Keep it more D&D-ish please.

[Produktion_Malphunktion]

It IS D&D-ish and you are playing at our table.

See, D&D can be anything. It can have a side game of cards, or dice. It can go to weird places, it can break it's own rules. D&D 'by the book' has gone to horror, post apocalyptic places, released a dice game for inside taverns(challenges), had cowboys and space aliens, and even Alice in Wonderland(Xorat I guess would be our version). There are rules for skill challenges (jump puzzles, trap rooms exc) and combat.

Anything goes. Anything. From the super serious lore stuff, to dancing kobolds. It is all D&D.

That said, not everything is for everyone. There are full systems I don't use, but it is nice that they exist, someday I may use them. Just like tabletop there are different types of gamers, and as designers we attempt to give each arch type something interesting at least once a year.

[herzkos]

It IS D&D-ish and you are playing at our table.

See, D&D can be anything. It can have a side game of cards, or dice. It can go to weird places, it can break it's own rules. D&D 'by the book' has gone to horror, post apocalyptic places, released a dice game for inside taverns(challenges), had cowboys and space aliens, and even Alice in Wonderland(Xorat I guess would be our version). There are rules for skill challenges (jump puzzles, trap rooms exc) and combat.

Anything goes. Anything. From the super serious lore stuff, to dancing kobolds. It is all D&D.

That said, not everything is for everyone. There are full systems I don't use, but it is nice that they exist, someday I may use them. Just like tabletop there are different types of gamers, and as designers we attempt to give each arch type something interesting at least once a year.

dear sir, think you missed the point of the OP and the guy you pulled the
d&dish from:
all the op is asking for is coherent story lines. a plot, an adventure if you will.

I would second his request, i like the story lines. it took me about 3 years to
realize that the Bergthrym spoken of in stk was the "chief" in threnal
south part 3. when i did, i was like . . . wow. coherent stories that tie stuff
together are what the op was looking for and I concur.

[TiranBlade]

I think they are starting that with what they did with public objectives with Korthos, it adds more story depth to it. But I too would like to see more story elements and some of our skills, like what you did with the lore feats, to be able to alter things in a quest, let alone have start having branching story lines where you can branch out do different quest on a quest chain based on how to accomplish the story.

More social skills outside of combat use Please!!

[LongshotBro]

the more i play DDO the more i've come to realize that in a lot of ways it is very much like PnP. even the example mentioned, about the threnal chief. rather than think of the storyline as flimsy or shallow, think of it like the best PnP campaigns, where that throw-away NPC you ran into at level 2 or heard about much later returns and you have a great a-ha moment. and mario's been here the whole time, all the low road was missing were some koopa troopas. btw good to see lord goodblade still bragging at the house p shindig.
i think the stories are great, and you do feel like you're accomplishing something in the grand scheme. stopping an invasion from Droaam, solving ancient prophecies, and a fair share of larceny and when you're done you can return to your home base in the bustling city, which itself has exclusive areas accessible to your more powerful and influential PC.
if you've ever been bitten by the DnD bug and find it increasingly difficult to get a group together for PnP around everyone's busy schedules, sitting at this virtual table and adventuring together is excellent. is it the same? no. it would take quite an algorithm to simulate a flesh-and-blood DM and campaign. but with a little imagination and fun attitude it's a good substitute.

[GeneralDiomedes]

dear sir, think you missed the point of the OP and the guy you pulled the
d&dish from:
all the op is asking for is coherent story lines. a plot, an adventure if you will.

I detected a definite bah humbug in the general direction of what he doesn't particularly care for .. with nary a mention about the vast majority of content which has storylines, of which I'm sure he has studied diligently.

One release doesn't a trend make. Long live variety!

[ka0t1c1sm]

A few specials events and some minigames does not an entire game make.

Last time I checked DDO was chocked full of complex interweaving storylines, with another one coming down the pike in the form of U13 and the new expansion.

A few recent diversions to add a little variety to the game does not mean the devs have tossed the spirit of D&D to the wayside.

[Kabaon]

You know, personally I'd rather find out what Sor'jek has been up to since we roflstomped him at Reavers, same with Sullo since he ran away (canonically, as he is only an optional in ToD) licking his wounds. What happened to the council in ToD. The Green Hag from Attack on Stormreach.

All plot lines that I personally would like to continue, as i find them the most intriguing bosses. I mean Sullo is the only boss who is a. Still alive and b. Who we banished (not killed) and then see scurry away when we run into him again.

Or given that we have only seen Shavarath, I would like to see other planes (though the only way I could see that fitting with Ebberon lore would be that Shavrath moves out of the proper alignment in order for another plane to move in, which would cause problems given that we have an entire adventure pack that requires Shaverath to stay put. I would actually like to see Risia or Fernia (though I suspect both would look like the fire and ice rooms in Tempest Spine).

Those are things I would like to see fleshed out more, or given definitive ends, but for now we go to FR and fight a God....

Also, is the Spinner of Shadows actually Ebberon's Lloth? or just some lacky who was in the wrong place at the wrong time?

[Narmolanya]

dear sir, think you missed the point of the OP and the guy you pulled the
d&dish from:
all the op is asking for is coherent story lines. a plot, an adventure if you will.

I would second his request, i like the story lines. it took me about 3 years to
realize that the Bergthrym spoken of in stk was the "chief" in threnal
south part 3. when i did, i was like . . . wow. coherent stories that tie stuff
together are what the op was looking for and I concur.

It took me 4 1/2 years and your post to realize this fact. That is what I love however, a story line that has a long arc and that I may not pick up on right away. I would hate to see the story behind the quests sacrificed in order to make the game more arcade.

[Gratch]

Sometimes you read a post and just know the Op is one of many waiting with baited breath on the final Robert Jordan Book #15 (?) released after his death to finally wrap up the story of the 10,000 characters and how the wheel decided to turn.

[sirgog]

You know, personally I'd rather find out what Sor'jek has been up to since we roflstomped him at Reavers, same with Sullo since he ran away (canonically, as he is only an optional in ToD) licking his wounds. What happened to the council in ToD. The Green Hag from Attack on Stormreach.

All plot lines that I personally would like to continue, as i find them the most intriguing bosses. I mean Sullo is the only boss who is a. Still alive and b. Who we banished (not killed) and then see scurry away when we run into him again.

Or given that we have only seen Shavarath, I would like to see other planes (though the only way I could see that fitting with Ebberon lore would be that Shavrath moves out of the proper alignment in order for another plane to move in, which would cause problems given that we have an entire adventure pack that requires Shaverath to stay put. I would actually like to see Risia or Fernia (though I suspect both would look like the fire and ice rooms in Tempest Spine).

Those are things I would like to see fleshed out more, or given definitive ends, but for now we go to FR and fight a God....

Also, is the Spinner of Shadows actually Ebberon's Lloth? or just some lacky who was in the wrong place at the wrong time?

SPOILER (highlight the black text to read it):

The Spinner calls Lolth 'Sister' in the chain finale. The Rakshasa consider her a Lord of Dust, but she has no loyalty to the other Lords of Dust at all.

END SPOILER

[Kabaon]

Interesting, I am intrigued now Turbine..... it's almost like they designed the story to be woven like a web.

Seriously though, should be interesting, even if it IS forgotten realms XD

[TiranBlade]

Interesting, I am intrigued now Turbine..... it's almost like they designed the story to be woven like a web.

Seriously though, should be interesting, even if it IS forgotten realms XD

It's just means that Lolth is an introloper diety, it apparently happens a lot, like what happened with the Storm of Zahir expansion for Neverwinter Nights 2. Zahir showed up in realmspace, though he's not from realmspace.

[Yan_PL]

simple as that, compare Sands - lots of NPCs with some plot importance, interesting diaogues, stories of wiz-king exploits... And u12 challenge pack. "house cannith pays this and this for crystals, shards, and assassination o' baddies".

[Talon_Moonshadow]

It IS D&D-ish and you are playing at our table.

See, D&D can be anything. It can have a side game of cards, or dice. It can go to weird places, it can break it's own rules. D&D 'by the book' has gone to horror, post apocalyptic places, released a dice game for inside taverns(challenges), had cowboys and space aliens, and even Alice in Wonderland(Xorat I guess would be our version). There are rules for skill challenges (jump puzzles, trap rooms exc) and combat.

Anything goes. Anything. From the super serious lore stuff, to dancing kobolds. It is all D&D.

That said, not everything is for everyone. There are full systems I don't use, but it is nice that they exist, someday I may use them. Just like tabletop there are different types of gamers, and as designers we attempt to give each arch type something interesting at least once a year.

Variety is a good thing.

But I can't jump worth a darn.

And mostly, I want to go into dungeons and beat up monsters.

[Captain_Wizbang]

It IS D&D-ish and you are playing at our table.

See, D&D can be anything. It can have a side game of cards, or dice. It can go to weird places, it can break it's own rules. D&D 'by the book' has gone to horror, post apocalyptic places, released a dice game for inside taverns(challenges), had cowboys and space aliens, and even Alice in Wonderland(Xorat I guess would be our version). There are rules for skill challenges (jump puzzles, trap rooms exc) and combat.

Anything goes. Anything. From the super serious lore stuff, to dancing kobolds. It is all D&D.

That said, not everything is for everyone. There are full systems I don't use, but it is nice that they exist, someday I may use them. Just like tabletop there are different types of gamers, and as designers we attempt to give each arch type something interesting at least once a year.

Well put.
To quote E. Gary Gygax, "let's not tell the DM's they dont need the books"

[Blank_Zero]

It IS D&D-ish and you are playing at our table.

See, D&D can be anything. It can have a side game of cards, or dice. It can go to weird places, it can break it's own rules. D&D 'by the book' has gone to horror, post apocalyptic places, released a dice game for inside taverns(challenges), had cowboys and space aliens, and even Alice in Wonderland(Xorat I guess would be our version). There are rules for skill challenges (jump puzzles, trap rooms exc) and combat.

Anything goes. Anything. From the super serious lore stuff, to dancing kobolds. It is all D&D.

That said, not everything is for everyone. There are full systems I don't use, but it is nice that they exist, someday I may use them. Just like tabletop there are different types of gamers, and as designers we attempt to give each arch type something interesting at least once a year.

Some people just don't like Mario sequences. Sad, isn't it?