To Int Rogues: Whats an epic-ready assassination DC?

[TheDjinnFor]

I'm considering making an assassination-based rogue for epic quests. Whats your recommended DC? What's your starting stats? Yes I could search for it, and I did, and I got mixed results. Some say go 16 Int + 5 levelups, others say 14-15 int with levelups in Str and you're golden. What's the consensus?

[joesully]

I cannot say that i think putting any level ups into intel on a melee would ever be my first choice, but off the top of my head id say that if you did start with a 16 intel you shouldnt run into much problem sassinatin epic trash.And i think you ll be able to attain a 40ish dc with that, wich would be enough

[TheDjinnFor]

I cannot say that i think putting any level ups into intel on a melee would ever be my first choice

Exactly what I was thinking, but I'd rather a more useful and consistent assassination DC than +2-3 to hit/damage. If it means I'm only getting like a 25% or less chance to assassinate if I prioritize strength over int, I'm pumping int.

[voodoogroves]

DC 40 works fine on epics for weak-fort targets.

I'm itching to try out a 46+ ish number.

[TheDjinnFor]

DC 40 works fine on epics for weak-fort targets.

I'm itching to try out a 46+ ish number.

So 40 is decent for weak trash? Is that something like:

Int: 15 + 6 item + 3 ex + 2 capstone + 2 tome + 2 ship = 30 (+10)

10 base
+20 rogue level
+10 int
=40

[voodoogroves]

So 40 is decent for weak trash? Is that something like:

Int: 15 + 6 item + 3 ex + 2 capstone + 2 tome + 2 ship = 30 (+10)

10 base
+20 rogue level
+10 int
=40

Epic Midnight Greetings gives a +2 to your DC. You don't need a super-high INT at start to hit 40-ish. Toss on a +7 armor, +3 tome ... fun times.

[karl_k0ch]

I am not playing an Int-based rogue, but I do find that 37* is enough to reliably dispose of casters, and grant a measure of success on other kind of mobs. It's nowhere near no-fail, but I find it working surprisingly well.

*Which is with 11 base int, and no EMG.

[Mellkor]

My guy has a 48 DC with just ship buffs and gear.

With that DC I rarely fail if the mob is assassinateable. Most fails are because of things like the mob moves just as I assassinate or something like that. I very rarely outright fail if I land the assassinate successfully.

I sometimes buff it to 50 with a yugo and store pot for things like epic fire giants and orange named epic mobs. a 53 assassinate is possible (but not very realistic or practical)

I started seeing a real difference in success rates starting at about DC 45.

link to my build is in my sig.

[Hobgoblin]

My guy has a 48 DC with just ship buffs and gear.

With that DC I rarely fail if the mob is assassinateable. Most fails are because of things like the mob moves just as I assassinate or something like that. I very rarely outright fail if I land the assassinate successfully.

I sometimes buff it to 50 with a yugo and store pot for things like epic fire giants and orange named epic mobs. a 53 assassinate is possible (but not very realistic or practical)

I started seeing a real difference in success rates starting at about DC 45.

link to my build is in my sig.

so just to confirm, the anti death is only from spells? you can assassinate oranges in epics?

hob

[Mellkor]

so just to confirm, the anti death is only from spells? you can assassinate oranges in epics?

hob

I have in the past assassinated the orange named fire giant in eClaw as well as the other giants in there on epic difficulty. I cant recall any other assassinatable orange named mobs tho. He saves a lot tho, even with a 50 DC.

I dont know what you mean by anti death.

[TheDjinnFor]

My guy has a 48 DC with just ship buffs and gear.

With that DC I rarely fail if the mob is assassinateable.

Good to know.

Would you say that you only fail against a select few high fort mobs and you automatically succeed against the majority, or is it that most mobs have fairly similar fort saves but 48 DC is high enough?

I'm considering rolling a 36 int = 45 DC halfling assassin. I wouldn't mind much if that means I sucked at assassinating a select few mobs but still had over 80% chance for the majority of them. I would definitely mind if the three less DC hurt my chances against a majority of targets.

[arroyo]

I run with 41~43 and it gets the job done on most epic caster mobs, which are my main concern anyway. IMHO, Assassins are meant to kill Drows mainly, since their SR might be problematic a few times against arcane insta-kills. The rest is profit.

[Mellkor]

Good to know.

Would you say that you only fail against a select few high fort mobs and you automatically succeed against the majority, or is it that most mobs have fairly similar fort saves but 48 DC is high enough?

I'm considering rolling a 36 int = 45 DC halfling assassin. I wouldn't mind much if that means I sucked at assassinating a select few mobs but still had over 80% chance for the majority of them. I would definitely mind if the three less DC hurt my chances against a majority of targets.

I would say I never fail vs caster mobs (unless I miss or something stupid like that), and only rarely fail vs high fort mobs, such as devils and orothons. you will most likely have an over 80% chance on the majority of mobs with a 45 DC (% is estimated). There are a select few that even a 50 DC fails some, such as epic House C paladins, vs those, I would say I am successful 50% of the time or so. But I always get a good laugh when they land on them, lol.


But I did notice a real difference after 44-45 tho. For example in eDA I often get more than 80 kills if I keep my DC at 48+. More than half of those are one shot full health bar mobs. When I was running a 45 DC I was getting maybe 50-60 kills per run.

In EDA you can only assassinate after the first wave. First wave all the mobs except bats and scorps have deathward .....

[maddmatt70]

DC 40 works fine on epics for weak-fort targets.

I'm itching to try out a 46+ ish number.

I have been wondering quite a bit about this. I am not sure you guys are correct. A guildy of mine before he left had a high 20s assasinate I think and he would assasinate a fair number of spellcasters and the like on epic. He had a tactic where he would just walk up and quickly assasinate a spellcaster in an epic. I am probably not portraying this accurately, but he did it in epic devils assault all the time and I do not think he had a super high dc or did anything especially complicated. Of course Smithers always made everything look easy..

Edit: I think it might have been low 30s actually..

[Hobgoblin]

I have in the past assassinated the orange named fire giant in eClaw as well as the other giants in there on epic difficulty. I cant recall any other assassinatable orange named mobs tho. He saves a lot tho, even with a 50 DC.

I dont know what you mean by anti death.

Im meaning the death ward that makes you not able to finger or wail organe names.

hob

[RedDragonScale]

My Assassin has a 43 assassinate DC.

In EPIC content, it works VERY well against Casters/low Fort save-types and if does a pretty good job against higher Fort save-types (about 75%-80% successful).

Of course, trash with Deathward are immune but I wasn't counting them.

[SweetDude]

I also have 43 it work very well, including epic orthons of devil assault.
Don't forget the Epic Midnight greeting.

My receipt:
16 starter
+6 enhancement
+3 exc int (TOD item set
+5 leveling
+2 Tome
Buffs:
Ship buff +2
Yoguloth +2
TOTAL INT 36 MOD = 13
DC 10 + 20 + 13 + 2 (Epic Midnight) = 45

[Mellkor]

Im meaning the death ward that makes you not able to finger or wail organe names.

hob

Well I dont consider mobs with death ward assassinatable.

I thought of another orange named I can assassinate... That caster in the beginning of eChrono. You can get him if you hit him with assassinate BEFORE he casts deathward on himself. you have like .2 seconds to do it tho, lol. But I can get him often enough to make it worth trying.

[Rydin_Dirtay]

I have been wondering quite a bit about this. I am not sure you guys are correct. A guildy of mine before he left had a high 20s assasinate I think and he would assasinate a fair number of spellcasters and the like on epic. He had a tactic where he would just walk up and quickly assasinate a spellcaster in an epic. I am probably not portraying this accurately, but he did it in epic devils assault all the time and I do not think he had a super high dc or did anything especially complicated. Of course Smithers always made everything look easy..

Edit: I think it might have been low 30s actually..

Mid 30's will assassinate epic casters often enough to be useful. Even a Rogue who dumped INT can get to that level. Not sure how he built his.

8 INT
+6 item
+2 excep (spyglass, ring, etc.)
+2 tome
+2 capstone
+2 ship
+2 yugo
= 24 INT which gives him +7, so that's a 37 DC.

So Smithers was probably at LEAST at 34-35 and maybe a little more, depending on what he had.