Another Update without Ranger Luv?

[noinfo]

Not exactly sure the last time Rangers got anything except the shaft (pun intended)

Every single melee class has recieved some upgrade since U11 except Rangers

1. Fighters and Pallies got their defensive PRE upgraded
2. Barbs and other classes with damage boost got it upgraded.
3. Monks got their stances upgraded and alchemical wraps that stack with TOD rings (yes I know wraps are buggy).

Apparently Rangers are king of the game since the last change to them was a nerf that removed both their melee alacrity AND typed their ac bonus to shield.

Yes I saw and approved of what appears to be a great revision of the enhancements for the whole system that will be coming sometime in the next year but seriously give us something now.

I have asked for this before and I still believe its needed: give rangers shield of whirling steel the same DR benefit as monk earth stance. It seems a simple change but one that strengthens a class that has limited HP and often in situations where their AC is not going to be high enough to matter for the shield bonus to be irrelivant (and its half the pre)

Tempest 1 = 5%
Tempest 2 = 10%
Tempest 3 = 15%

It will not make rangers tanks (less hp)
It will add to their survivablilty in a game that is more about HP and DPS than anything else.

Yes I know the devs want to be focusing on their new project but a small pre improvement for a class that has been completely ignored is certainly due. Oh and also take a look at the CE spell point thread, something else that should make it into U13.

[Vormaerin]

Don't expect any enhancement changes until the bathwater is thrown out in the expansion.

Speaking of which, we already know that Tempest is getting additional abilities from the Dervish class, so there's obviously something going on there.

[QuantumFX]

Based on the information in the Let’s Talk: Enhancements thread Tempest Rangers will see some love in the expansion pack. They’re pulling stuff from the Dervish PrC that should add some nice DPS punch to the class.

[Qhualor]

Based on the information in the Let’s Talk: Enhancements thread Tempest Rangers will see some love in the expansion pack. They’re pulling stuff from the Dervish PrC that should add some nice DPS punch to the class.

sweet! finally some ranger wuv.

[EustaceTrevelyan]

sweet! finally some ranger wuv.

Sweet Ranger Wuv would be a good indie band name

[LeLoric]

Not a huge boost to rangers but the hold animal change is mildly useful.

It now works on vermin and magical beasts and unintelligent ones get no saving throw.

The last part is the key. Scorps/Most spiders now get a 15 sp 45 second hold with no recurring save. Not widespread useful but it still has some mild uses.

I would love to see some changes to the spell dc's of ranger spells and add entangle into the game. Snare entangle and spike growth with useable dc's along with hold animal would make for a moderate cc package.

[grodon9999]

Not exactly sure the last time Rangers got anything except the shaft (pun intended)

Every single melee class has recieved some upgrade since U11 except Rangers

1. Fighters and Pallies got their defensive PRE upgraded
2. Barbs and other classes with damage boost got it upgraded.
3. Monks got their stances upgraded and alchemical wraps that stack with TOD rings (yes I know wraps are buggy).

Apparently Rangers are king of the game since the last change to them was a nerf that removed both their melee alacrity AND typed their ac bonus to shield.

Yes I saw and approved of what appears to be a great revision of the enhancements for the whole system that will be coming sometime in the next year but seriously give us something now.

I have asked for this before and I still believe its needed: give rangers shield of whirling steel the same DR benefit as monk earth stance. It seems a simple change but one that strengthens a class that has limited HP and often in situations where their AC is not going to be high enough to matter for the shield bonus to be irrelivant (and its half the pre)

Tempest 1 = 5%
Tempest 2 = 10%
Tempest 3 = 15%

It will not make rangers tanks (less hp)
It will add to their survivablilty in a game that is more about HP and DPS than anything else.

Yes I know the devs want to be focusing on their new project but a small pre improvement for a class that has been completely ignored is certainly due. Oh and also take a look at the CE spell point thread, something else that should make it into U13.

I'd go with 5 -10 - 20% - considering how ridiculously OP earth stance is that is FAR from it. I'd also change the SOWS AC bonus to un-typed.

Never would I have suggested this if it weren't for the obscene amount of OP monk changes in the last update.

The offensive stuff leaked in the ENH thread looks promising, fingers are crossed.

[noinfo]

I'd go with 5 -10 - 20% - considering how ridiculously OP earth stance is that is FAR from it. I'd also change the SOWS AC bonus to un-typed.

Never would I have suggested this if it weren't for the obscene amount of OP monk changes in the last update.

The offensive stuff leaked in the ENH thread looks promising, fingers are crossed.

The overall upcoming stuff looks fantastic and I am glad they combined the Dervish stuff in there (I made a suggestion a year or 2 ago with something similar based around weapon finesse or ranger I think)

The problem is that we have no idea when its happening and some love now is long overdue so to all those saying to wait, sorry I have waited and waited and waited, this change is not drastic, and certainly not OP. 20% for tier 3 would not bother me either since its pretty lackluster all round.

[LeLoric]

One thing I would like to see for rangers is better spells at higher levels. 3rd and 4th level spells for rangers are blah. This would help the pure or heavy rangers without giving too much to splashes.

Some level 3 or 4 ideas.

Foebane:

Enhance this spell to not overwrite effects like the pnp version but instead have it give favored bane to your existing weapons +2 enh and 2d6 bane dmg to any of your favored enemies. Doesnt stack with any bane effects already on the weapon.

Tiger's might:

Ram's might but also with 5% double strike. Doesn't stack with rams.

Air mantle:

Gives a miss chance against ranged as well as immunity to cloud/fog effects.

Wounds be gone (I suck at naming things):

small self only heal over time. ~5 dmg every 2 seconds for say maybe a minute. (more than 5 maybe but with heal amp may get too strong)

[Hobgoblin]

Heartstrike:

Enhance this spell to not overwrite effects like the pnp version but instead have it give favored bane to your existing weapons +2 enh and 2d6 bane dmg to any of your favored enemies. Doesnt stack with any bane effects already on the weapon.

Tiger's ferocity:

Ram's might but also with 5% double strike. Doesn't stack with rams.

Ride the winds:

Gives a miss chance against ranged as well as immunity to cloud/fog effects.

minor regeneration:

small self only heal over time. ~5 dmg every 2 seconds for say maybe a minute. (more than 5 maybe but with heal amp may get too strong)

in red for names.

keep it at 5 for rangers - give regeneration and greater regen to druids. have it do 10ish for regen, and 15 for greater as well as auto removing 1 pt or perhaps all stat damage per tick

hob

[LeLoric]

in red for names.

keep it at 5 for rangers - give regeneration and greater regen to druids. have it do 10ish for regen, and 15 for greater as well as auto removing 1 pt or perhaps all stat damage per tick

hob

Foebane is an actual spell so doesn't need shanged most likely but the other's are good.

[CheeseMilk]

Wounds be gone (I suck at naming things):

small self only heal over time. ~5 dmg every 2 seconds for say maybe a minute. (more than 5 maybe but with heal amp may get too strong)

Regrowth.

Already in-game on an item, and it was on Festivult Cookies a couple of years ago. Not great, but with some healing amp and devotion lines, it would basically be a personal radiant servant aura. Fits with the ranger (and Druid!) theme, too.

[EpiKagEMO]

i believe ranger should be getting their double strikes back only on tempest II

[bbqzor]

2. Barbs and other classes with damage boost got it upgraded.

1) TR your ranger into a human or half elf.
2) Combine Versatility Damage Boost with Manyshot.
3) ????
4) Profit.

You can have the same boost everyone else got if you want it. I'm only pointing this out because all too frequently posts are made comparing some things but not others. The reality is, the changes are more broadly applicable than it may seem, and rarely does a class really get nothing. It may not get something directly, or it may not get something an individual wants or was looking for, but most of the time indirect benefits apply at a minimum.

Additionally, as others have said, direct changes are coming with the two biggest ones IMO already cited: the hold animal and enhancement ones. More than just a change to the current enhancements, the overhaul will do wonders for Rangers specifically, with a reduction or elimination of feat requirements for Tempest which is possibly the steepest opportunity cost PRE there is. If anything, Rangers will get the most benefit from this.

Then there's also the new items. The Epic Earth Bow from the Cannith Challenges is very easy to get and generally performs extremely well relative to most other options, in many cases being the best choice or close to it. And in U13 the blunt typed bow is coming which covers another huge gap for Manyshot. Even for Tempests, Manyshot is very powerful and discarding bows because you're not an Arcane Archer is a mistake, while for Arcane Archers the boost is even more noticeable.

I don't really think saying Rangers have gotten nothing has much of a foundation. They didn't get more melee haste, which is what you maybe were looking for, but they certainly have some things coming in.

[voodoogroves]

I don't really think it's right to compare rangers fully to Fighters and Barbs, it's too apples and oranges.

But comparing to monks is fair game and the amount of OPness that has hit monks in recent updates (especially the stance changes from the last up) is baffling. Shade's completely right on this.

I do hate the nerf to TWF monk tactics no longer proc'ing on the 2nd swing; that was a bit painful.

I don't think monks are OP. I think they are the bar, and we need to raise the others.

Tempest attack speed or doublestrike or whatever they get should scale linearly so that splash trade-offs aren't as absolute. I'd like to see the real choice between Tempest 2 / Something else 1 and Tempest 1 / Something else 2 be serious. Tempest 3 should be the absolutely crazy fast attack/doublestrike/whatever.

[noinfo]

I don't really think it's right to compare rangers fully to Fighters and Barbs, it's too apples and oranges.

But comparing to monks is fair game and the amount of OPness that has hit monks in recent updates (especially the stance changes from the last up) is baffling. Shade's completely right on this.

While it was limited to SD/DOS shields I could live with just having the AC revert to untyped but with monks stances this request should be a no brainer.

Rangers should be comparative to monks and I completely agree on this, and to a degree Pallies though Rangers are more versatile than they are, they have severe limitations as well (Hp being the major one)

[Chai]

I don't really think it's right to compare rangers fully to Fighters and Barbs, it's too apples and oranges.

But comparing to monks is fair game and the amount of OPness that has hit monks in recent updates (especially the stance changes from the last up) is baffling. Shade's completely right on this.

However...

Monks were kicked alot harder than rangers and for a longer time. Handwraps have been broken on and off for years, rangers running around with greensteel khopesh all over the place for 2 years before TOD came out, then monks have to burn their ability to get exceptional stats so they can have more damage mods they should have gotten on wraps in the first place.

I just think monks got their love before rangers and paladins did, and not in place of rangers getting theirs.

All they had to do IMO in U5 was switch tier 1 of tempest with tier 3 of tempest. Want that haste? - Take 18 levels of ranger to get it, and not a mere 6 levels.