new quest - CASTLES????

[quickgrif]

All of you bashing Tolkien...I'm sorry for you.

The three things to keep in mind about his writing:

1. Before anything else, Tolkien was a medievalist, and draws heavily upon the medieval style, although he has much more sophisticated characterization, descriptions and narrative flow.
2. What he really wanted to be writing was his mythology, which became the unfinished Silmarillion, but was pressed to write a sequel to his children's story, The Hobbit, by his publishers. and The Lord of the Rings ended up as a sort of bridge between the two.
3. He was more concerned with showing off the world, the language and history of Middle Earth that he had been working on for half a century than he was with the plot, though obviously he was very much concerned with that as well.

I really can't understand how anyone could find the movies more enjoyable than the books in any way other than as a lack of attention span. Sorry if I'm coming off as harsh here, but they are some of my most cherished books, having read them 5 times now, and getting something fresh out of them each time through.



The movies were fun, and pretty, and did a pretty good job of staying true to the novels, but they still fall short.

I love his imagination and what he did however I am not going to lie and say his story writing skills were not without flaws.

I am not bashing just stating how I feel when I read his books, as I am a avid book reader since I was 7 (I can walk by whole book sections at bookstores and literally have read almost every book or at least every author).
It is not uncommon knowledge his storytelling method had flaws but that is not bashing him. As far as enjoying the movies more I say it is a wash for me. The books have greater depth and feeling but the movies did not drag at points as the book sometimes did.

[Riggs]

We underestimated difficulty/time to completion, ...

I have no ETAs or anything, but we are aware that some of our dungeons don't give as much XP as they should, and Bastion isn't the only one with that problem.

Yeah...

I am not one for arcane formulas and fancy maths - but it seems level 18-20 quests that give LESS xp than most level 7-17 quests that are more than 10 minutes long seems to be a pretty big indicator of something wrong.

I can probably pick out several level 8-10 quests alone that give MORE xp than the Lord of Blades...no one thought that was an issue when setting the xp?

A big shift happened back when Gianthold got nurfed hard for xp - it seems every single high level quest after that was not just lower xp - but so low people dont even bother running 'high level quests' on their TRs for xp. Other than IQ ones which are much faster, and makes the lower xp at least not so onerous to run them.

[waterboytkd]

We underestimated difficulty/time to completion, I think. It's a pretty arcane formula with a lot of moving parts (party composition, dungeon settings, "sadism factor", dungeon length, difficulty selection) and it's a surprisingly difficult task to make sure that all quests award appropriate amount of XP at level, below level, above level, etc. At various times the numbers have been adjusted and it's more or less an ongoing process, as new quests come out the landscape of best xp/min across various levels changes. This may lead to older quests getting bumps etc.

I have no ETAs or anything, but we are aware that some of our dungeons don't give as much XP as they should, and Bastion isn't the only one with that problem.

Awesome. Other quests to consider: all of the madness quests (both harbinger and reign packs), all of the Secrets of the Artificer quests AND raids, all of Three-Barrel Cove, Valak's Mausoleum, pretty much all of Threnal (there's one quest worth enough xp--West 2, I think, maybe it was east 2...), and I'd even say elite IQ/DD. Normal IQ/DD is about right (it's low xp, but fast quests), but elite is MUCH harder than normal (especially to melees--those mobs have WAY too high of ACs), and the XP payout just doesn't feel worth the effort, even on bravery streak.

There's more, too, but I lack the ambition to go and find them all and list them. :P

[sephiroth1084]

We underestimated difficulty/time to completion, I think. It's a pretty arcane formula with a lot of moving parts (party composition, dungeon settings, "sadism factor", dungeon length, difficulty selection) and it's a surprisingly difficult task to make sure that all quests award appropriate amount of XP at level, below level, above level, etc. At various times the numbers have been adjusted and it's more or less an ongoing process, as new quests come out the landscape of best xp/min across various levels changes. This may lead to older quests getting bumps etc.

I have no ETAs or anything, but we are aware that some of our dungeons don't give as much XP as they should, and Bastion isn't the only one with that problem.

Is there any way we could get a minimum base XP/quest level across the board? Quests with more than that would probably not get increased, but ones under that would. Maybe as a percentage of the total XP required for that level for a 1st TR character?

For instance, a level 19 quest shouldn't have under 8,000 XP, say, as its starting value.
Raids shouldn't have under 10,000 XP, regardless of level.

I don't know what a perfect solution would be, but it is incredibly frustrating to run some quests for XP and get really poor rewards, especially if the quest is challenging.

[stoopid_cowboy]

I have never understood how Genesis Point was worth double the XP of Bastion with half the challenge. Not to mention LOB is worth half the XP as Tempest Spine (IIRC, but I hope I am wrong).

Still exciting news!

yuda

[FlimsyFirewood]

I feel that I should point out that I'm a content designer, i.e. I make environments and fights. When you guys are talking about XP or treasure, it's all systems, this is not my direct responsibility and I don't get to call the shots on what goes where and for how many cookies. Insofar, I'm making no promises about when those things get fixed, nerfed or adjusted. I just know guys are working on those things.

[waterboytkd]

I feel that I should point out that I'm a content designer, i.e. I make environments and fights. When you guys are talking about XP or treasure, it's all systems, this is not my direct responsibility and I don't get to call the shots on what goes where and for how many cookies. Insofar, I'm making no promises about when those things get fixed, nerfed or adjusted. I just know guys are working on those things.

As a content designer, I feel you should design a fight. A fight between a bunch of angry kobolds and the systems developers. These kobolds, however, are under the effects of the Invulnerability power up and the Quad Damage power up. And the only way to get the power ups off the kobolds is to fix the skewed xp payouts for quests. A sort of Do or Die scenario... :P

Also, appreciate the communication. Maybe one of the systems guys (or gals?) could drop by for a quick soundbyte.

[Sarisa]

Regarding Bastion in particular, is it possible to adjust the quest so that dungeon alert from casters above you don't impact the dungeon as badly as it does now?

[stoopid_cowboy]

When you guys are talking about XP or treasure, it's all systems, this is not my direct responsibility and I don't get to call the shots on what goes where and for how many cookies.

But I am sure you know that guy...
Will you please do us all a HUGE favor and have him/her to just look at a few of our comments?

Thanks!

yuda

[Cendaer]

I feel that I should point out that I'm a content designer, i.e. I make environments and fights. When you guys are talking about XP or treasure, it's all systems, this is not my direct responsibility and I don't get to call the shots on what goes where and for how many cookies. Insofar, I'm making no promises about when those things get fixed, nerfed or adjusted. I just know guys are working on those things.

Awwww... and he's polite too!

See how he tried to pull the thread back from it's derail?

FlimsyFirewood, you just keep making awesome environments (did I mention more towers? do you think they'll ever let you make Sharn?) and fights.

I feel sorry for you devs sometimes, because no matter how much you make, we always seem to want MORE, because you make it so gooood.

[Havok.cry]

I feel that I should point out that I'm a content designer, i.e. I make environments and fights. When you guys are talking about XP or treasure, it's all systems, this is not my direct responsibility and I don't get to call the shots on what goes where and for how many cookies. Insofar, I'm making no promises about when those things get fixed, nerfed or adjusted. I just know guys are working on those things.

Does this mean If I have a shiny idea for a quest or boss fight, I should PM it to you?

[Xyfiel]

Dear great Flimsy,

If Warforged can select male or female at char creation, why do they have their own outhouse at the Carnival? And which of the three do Halflings use? Is there someone who has to retrieve fallen Halflings? I have meet a few who have a, uhm, certain outlook on life.

[I_Bob]

I want to defend a castle, like the fight at Helm's Deep...

I want to be up on the wall and see 10,000 orcs charging the walls... I want to shoot arrows down into the mass of invaders, I want ladders to be raised by the invaders (and I want to be able to push them over).

I want to see catapults hurling stones. I want to see a battering ram breaking down the gates. I want to see Stone Giants smashing breaches in the walls.

I want to fall back to the inner castle walls.

That's what I want...

Edit: Oh, and I want to hurl a dwarf.

/signed

[dunklezhan]

I personally would love to see the dev formula for "sadism factor"

IF Eladrin = Amused THEN Sadism = TRUE


I think that's it.

[Asmodeus451]

if eladrin = amused then sadism = true


i think that's it.

qft

[Algreg]

All of you bashing Tolkien...I'm sorry for you.

The three things to keep in mind about his writing:

1. Before anything else, Tolkien was a medievalist, and draws heavily upon the medieval style, although he has much more sophisticated characterization, descriptions and narrative flow.
2. What he really wanted to be writing was his mythology, which became the unfinished Silmarillion, but was pressed to write a sequel to his children's story, The Hobbit, by his publishers. and The Lord of the Rings ended up as a sort of bridge between the two.
3. He was more concerned with showing off the world, the language and history of Middle Earth that he had been working on for half a century than he was with the plot, though obviously he was very much concerned with that as well.

I really can't understand how anyone could find the movies more enjoyable than the books in any way other than as a lack of attention span. Sorry if I'm coming off as harsh here, but they are some of my most cherished books, having read them 5 times now, and getting something fresh out of them each time through.



The movies were fun, and pretty, and did a pretty good job of staying true to the novels, but they still fall short.

That is really a matter of personal taste - some people just like movies more. For me - and just for me - Tolkien is pretty much a children´s author. Maybe its a personal background thing, as a philologist, I had to chew through a lot of world literature and in comparision to really great writers, Tolkien is a hack. But he is worlds above most of contemporary fantasy fiction where you can read grande lines like "Mystra cast Bigby´s Crushing Hand" (no kidding) and way better than a lot of other "geek typed" writers like Lovecraft.

[sephiroth1084]

That is really a matter of personal taste - some people just like movies more. For me - and just for me - Tolkien is pretty much a children´s author. Maybe its a personal background thing, as a philologist, I had to chew through a lot of world literature and in comparision to really great writers, Tolkien is a hack. But he is worlds above most of contemporary fantasy fiction where you can read grande lines like "Mystra cast Bigby´s Crushing Hand" (no kidding) and way better than a lot of other "geek typed" writers like Lovecraft.

A HACK? Like his style or not, how could you possibly refer to him as a hack?!

[Silverleafeon]

Woot...Tolkien pretty much inspired D&D to be created...that alone grants him legend status...

[Ganolyn]

A HACK? Like his style or not, how could you possibly refer to him as a hack?!

I wouldn't take his analysis too seriously. For someone who identifies himself as a philologist, his sentence structure is atrocious.

[sephiroth1084]

I wouldn't take his analysis too seriously. For someone who identifies himself as a philologist, his sentence structure is atrocious.

Agreed. At the very least, a philologist should have a better understanding of word meaning and usage.