Comprehensive Cleric Domain Proposal

[Meat-Head]

First, I love clerics.

Second, I want domains badly.

Third, I don't like the OPs stuff. It's too much.


Fourth, I say keep it simple. Access to spells and 1 MINOR ability. I think it should be more feat-like also similar to monk/fvs stuff.

The balance is that spells cost SP. Furthermore, clerics wouldn't get as many enchancements for domain spells. So a fire domain cleric would never overpower a fire savant, etc. A death domain cleric would never have the DCs of a palemaster. Need more balance? Increase cooldowns by 50% or something. That would be fine.

[Silverleafeon]

The idea as a whole sounds interesting.

How to balance it all out would take some thought...

[TempestAlphaOmega]

I have to agree with what some had said about the OP in that it seems a bit much.

My opinion is that it should be a feat granted at 1st level of Cleric (Free feat, select domain) which would give access to a small group of spells specific to the domain. Normal SP costs, take up a current spell slot at an appropriate level, no enhancment lines.

Thats all it really needs to be.

[Aesop]

I have to agree with what some had said about the OP in that it seems a bit much.

My opinion is that it should be a feat granted at 1st level of Cleric (Free feat, select domain) which would give access to a small group of spells specific to the domain. Normal SP costs, take up a current spell slot at an appropriate level, no enhancment lines.

Thats all it really needs to be.

disagree with this one point.

I think there should be Enhancement lines that make the Domain viable through out play.

What good would a high level damage spell that had no enhancements to up its power be in end game content. May as well scroll cast them for all the good it would do.

Make enhancements that work along with the specific domains. War Domain maybe gets bonuses to Favored Weapon. Fire Domain maybe gets some inherent resists and Fire Damage Amplification, Travel domain maybe gets some inherent speed boost... etc.

Nothing as powerful as what the op lists perhaps but still useful to customization.

Aesop

[Sgt_Hart]

Well detailed, Well thought out, but like most of the others, I have to say.. Well over the top.

My main's also on his 2nf clr life, with 1 FVS life behind him too.

That said.. Cart before horse?

I'd rather have those other 2 PrE's for divine's, and the Tier 3 on the existing 2 PrE's first.

Still, Cleric's without Domains is sort of like Wizards without Wands. Not the be-all, end-all, but.. big thing, yanno?

[Voldomar]

Still, Cleric's without Domains is sort of like Wizards without bonus feats

fixed

[Solmage]

I have to agree with what some had said about the OP in that it seems a bit much.

My opinion is that it should be a feat granted at 1st level of Cleric (Free feat, select domain) which would give access to a small group of spells specific to the domain. Normal SP costs, take up a current spell slot at an appropriate level, no enhancment lines.

Thats all it really needs to be.

I agree with this. It would already be ridiculously powerful to have a cleric with fire wall or ice storm. To have them be as good as a wizards is just wrong in every possible way.

disagree with this one point.

I think there should be Enhancement lines that make the Domain viable through out play.

I might as well start asking for FULL access to every single level 6 cleric spell at the expense of a single level 9 slot for my wizard, and demand free healing enhancements thrown in for good measure. Yes, this is as per PnP too. I know my wizard would love Blade Barrier, Heal and 2 mass cures.

Sorry, IF you get wizard spells, you should not get them with the same benefits as a wizard. Whether they're powerful enough to be useful to you that way or not will be up to you to judge if you take them and use them.

However, to be perfectly frank, I'd rather clerics didn't get a single wizard spell, yes to domains otherwise, and we'd leave the wizard spell stuff to druids.

[Superspeed_Hi5]

Lets not forget some of the feats thtat these domains grant at lvl 9 mind you are also ridiculously overpowered. Slay Living Guard at lvl 9 on a self healing class? Sheesh. Even the perma-blur at lvl 9 is ridiculous since the best you can hope for in an item at that lvl is Dusk which is only 10% miss chance. And the all powerful perma-FOM? How am I supposed to grease my cleric into pit traps?

[Aesop]

I might as well start asking for FULL access to every single level 6 cleric spell at the expense of a single level 9 slot for my wizard, and demand free healing enhancements thrown in for good measure. Yes, this is as per PnP too. I know my wizard would love Blade Barrier, Heal and 2 mass cures.

Sorry, IF you get wizard spells, you should not get them with the same benefits as a wizard. Whether they're powerful enough to be useful to you that way or not will be up to you to judge if you take them and use them.

However, to be perfectly frank, I'd rather clerics didn't get a single wizard spell, yes to domains otherwise, and we'd leave the wizard spell stuff to druids.

So you want domains... but only those that don't have anything other than what clerics already have?

How about you can have your Familiar instead... that would be a closer comparison as its a class feature not a specific spell... kinda like domains are class features and not any one specific spell.

You can have Enhancements for that too... Because that makes sense... as opposed to some strawman about access to enhancement because of a spell that would allow the casting of other spells.

Aesop

[Aesop]

Lets not forget some of the feats thtat these domains grant at lvl 9 mind you are also ridiculously overpowered. Slay Living Guard at lvl 9 on a self healing class? Sheesh. Even the perma-blur at lvl 9 is ridiculous since the best you can hope for in an item at that lvl is Dusk which is only 10% miss chance. And the all powerful perma-FOM? How am I supposed to grease my cleric into pit traps?

yep I agree those are crazy powerful.

[countfitz]

BOOOO!

I want my domains to be EXACTLY (or a lot closer to than this proposal) like PnP!


A list of spells we can add to our lists, and 1 or 2 kinda cool but not overpowered abilities, like weapon proficiency, or an extra trainable skill, or 1 spell like ability per rest, all balanced so that we have lots of variety!

[Urjak]

Air Domain
Feat: 10 inherent electric resist, turn earth creatures, inate airguard, +1 caster level evocation
Enhancements:
SLA: Obscuring Mist 1AP
SLA: Chain Lightning 2AP
*snip*

Death Domain
Feat:Inate slay living guard, +1 caster level necromancy
Enhancements:
SLA: Cause Fear 1AP
SLA: Death Kneel 2AP
SLA: Destruction 3AP

*snip* stopped reading here

I m all for domains ... but honestly do you have an idea how they are supposed to be? What you are suggesting here is WAY overpowered ... WAY!!!!!

Cleric domains mainly give an inhere bonus (feat bonus as you listed) plus they add one spell slot per level to cast from a specific list of domain relevant spells ... thats not even close to SLA s ... to put that in DDO termes: those SLAs as you proposed them should be useable ONCE PER REST! .... if you would really implement them as true SLAs like sorc or wiz ones ... those proposed spells are WAY too powerfull ... just take sorc as an example ... they get level 3 spells as SLAs at level 18 ... you proposed a lvl6 spell (chain lightning) at tier 2 (lvl12?) and a lvl7 spell (destruction) at tier 3 (lvl18?) ... thats WAY beyond the powerlevel domains should give!

so while i acknowledge the amount of time you have put into this: /TOTALLY NOT SIGNED

[Combat_Wombat]

so while i acknowledge the amount of time you have put into this: /TOTALLY NOT SIGNED

lol it took me 15 minutes all I wanted was to get everyone talking about domains so the devs would notice while they are redoing the entire enhancement system and start thinking about it so the game doesn't have another 5 years without them. So far so good honestly. The thread has lasted way longer then I ever expected it to.

I do quite thoroughly believe that they need to be SLAs with modified timers to actually be useful and not overpowered like the actual lists of domain spells would be if freely castable.

[Aesop]

I'd also add enhancement specific to the Domains. Nothing complicated. perhaps some Damage Enhancements for damage heavy lines like the Elemental Domains. Or Expanding on the Granted Power. War Domain may have an Enhancement line to improve their use of their Deity's Favored Weapon... maybe an Improved Critical with just that weapon and maybe some basic damage enhancements in there too.

Anyway here are the basics


Cleric Domain DDO:

Spells that are duplicated from the cleric list to the Domain List have decreased SP cost relative to their Level. A level 1 Spell may only be reduced by 1 SP while a duplicate level 9 spell may be decreased by 5 or more SP.



Air
Static: +1 Caster level Air Spells, Turn Undead functions on Earth Creatures
Spells added to List:
Gust of Wind (lvl 2)
Cyclonic Blast (lvl 5)
Whirlwind (lvl 8)

Animal
Static: Gain an Animal Companion as a Druid
Spells added to List:
Hold Animal (lvl 2)
Summon Natures Ally IV (lvl 4)
Summon Natures Ally VIII (lvl 8)

Artifice
Static: Gain a Bonus to Crafting Skills like an Artificer of half your Cleric level
Spells added to List:
Repair Moderate Damage (lvl 2)
Reconstruct (lvl 6)
*Prismatic Sphere (lvl 9)

Chaos
Static: +1 Caster level for Chaos Spells, Turn Lawful Outsiders like Undead
Spells added to List:
Hypnotic Pattern (lvl 2)
Chaos Hammer (lvl 4)
Summon Monster IX (lvl 9)

Charm
Static: +2 Diplomacy, +1 DC Enchantment (Charm) Spells
Spells added to List:
Charm Person (lvl 1)
Charm Monster (lvl 5)
Dominate Monster (lvl 9)

Community
Static: +2 Diplomacy, Calming: Reduced Threat Generation 10%
Spells added to List:
Bless (lvl 1)
Heroes Feast (lvl 6)
Heal, Mass (lvl 9)

Darkness
Static: +1 Caster level to Darkness Spells, +4 to Hide
Spells added to List:
Blindness (lvl 2)
*Armor of Darkness (lvl 4)
Power Word: Blind (lvl 8)

Death
Static: Necrotic Guard: Creatures attacking have a 50% chance to take 1d6+1 per Cleric level damage
Spells added to List:
*Death Knell (lvl 2)
Slay Living (lvl 5)
Create Greater Undead (lvl 8)

Deathless
Static: Healing Amplification +10%
Spells added to List:
*Consecrate (lvl 2)
*Create Deathless (lvl 6)
*Create Greater Deathless (lvl 8)

Decay
Static: Touch of Decay (SLA)
Spells added to List:
Ray of Enfeeblement (lvl 2)
Enervation (lvl 4)
Horrid Wilting (lvl 8)

Destruction
Static: Smiting Strike: similar to Smite Evil but +4 to hit + CL to damage and no Alignment restriction.
Spells added to List:
*Shatter (lvl 2)
Inflict Light Wounds, Mass (lvl 6)
*Earthquake(lvl 8)

Dragon Below
Static: Augment Summoning
Spells added to List:
*Death Knell (lvl 2)
*Planar Ally, Lesser (lvl 4)
*Planar Ally, Greater (lvl 8)

Earth
Static: +1 CL to Earth Spells, Turn Air Creatures as Turn Undead
Spells added to List:
*Magic Stones (lvl 1)
*Spike Stones (lvl 4)
*Iron Body (lvl 8)

Evil
Static: +1 CL for Evil Spells, Turn Good Outsiders with Turn Undead
Spells added to List:
*Desecrate (lvl 2)
Create Undead (lvl 6)
Unholy Aura (lvl 8)

Exorcism
Static: +2 Turn Undead Checks, +1 Turn Attempt
Spells added to List:
Protection from Evil (lvl 1)
Banishment (lvl 6)
Holy Aura (lvl 8)

Feast
Static: Immune to Poisons
Spells added to List:
Neutralize Poison (lvl 4)
Heroes Feast (lvl 6)
*Feast of Champions (lvl 9)

Fire
Static: +1 CL for Fire Spells, Turn Water Creatures with Turn Undead
Spells added to List:
Scorching Ray (lvl 2)
Fire Shield (lvl 5)
Incendiary Cloud (lvl 8)

Glory
Static: +2 Turn Checks, +1d6 Turn Damage
Spells added to List:
*Bless Weapon (lvl 2)
Holy Weapon (lvl 5)
*Crown of Glory (lvl 8)

Good
Static: +1 CL for Good Spells, Turn Evil Outsiders with Turn Undead
Spells added to List:
Aid (lvl 2)
Holy Smite (lvl 4)
Holy Aura (lvl 8)


Healing
Static: +1 CL on Heal Spells, -1 SP to Empower Healing Metamagic
Spells added to List:
Cure Moderate Wounds (lvl 2)
Cure Light Wounds, Mass (lvl 5)
*Regenerate (lvl 7)

Law
Static: +1 CL on Law Spells, Turn Chaotic Creatures with Turn Undead
Spells added to List:
Angelskin (lvl 2)
Orders Wrath (lvl 4)
Shield of Law (lvl 8)

Life
Static: Toughness
Spells added to List:
Restoration: Lesser (lvl 2)
*Disrupting Weapon (lvl 5)
*Regeneration (lvl 7)

Luck
Static: Diehard
Spells added to List:
Entropic Shield (lvl 1)
Freedom of Movement (lvl 4)
*Moment of Prescience (lvl 8)

Madness
Static: Confusion (SLA): target may attack ally or become dazed
Spells added to List:
Rage (lvl 3)
Phantasmal Killer (lvl 6)
*Weird (lvl 9)


Magic
Static: Count as a Wizard of half cleric level for Scrolls and Wand use
Spells added to List:
Dispel Magic (lvl 3)
Spell Resistance (lvl 5)
Disjunction (lvl 9)

Meditation
Static: Increase maximum Echoes of Power SP regeneration to 20 SP
Spells added to List:
Owl's Wisdom (lvl 2)
Spell Resistance (lvl 5)
*Mind Blank (lvl 8)


Necromancer
Static: +1 Caster level for Necromancy
Spells added to list:
*Vampiric Touch (lvl 3)
Waves of Fatigue (lvl 5)
Energy Drain (lvl 9)


Passion
Static: Rage(SLA)
Spells added to List:
*Hideous Laughter (lvl 2)
Crushing Despair (lvl 4)
Irresistible Dance (lvl 8)


Plant
Static: +1 CL to Plant Spells, Turn Plant Creatures with Turn Undead
Spells added to List:
Entangle (lvl 1)
*Wall of Thorns (lvl 5)
*Shambler (lvl 9)

Protection
Static: Deflection Bonus 1 +1 per 4 Cleric levels
Spells added to List:
Displacement (lvl 3)
Globe of Invulnerability (lvl 6)
Prismatic Sphere (lvl 9)

Shadow
Static: Gain Concealment equal to caster level
Spells added to List:
Obscuring Mist (lvl 1)
Shadow Walk (lvl 6)
*Shades (lvl 9)


Strength
Static: Feat of Strength gain half cleric level as an enhancement bonus to Strength for 20 seconds. Every 4 cleric levels you gain an additional use. the ability has a 1 minute cooldown.
Spells added to List:
*Enlarge Person (lvl 1)
*Righteous Might (lvl 5)
*Crushing Hand (lvl 9)



Sun
Static: +2d6 Turn Damage, +1 Turn Attempt
Spells added to List:
Searing Light (lvl 3)
Flame Strike (lvl 5)
Sunburst (lvl 8)

Travel
Static: +10% Movement. Stacks.
Spells added to List:
Long Strider (lvl 1)
Dimension Door(lvl 4)
Teleport, Greater (lvl 7)

Trickery
Static: Add Hide and Bluff to Skill List, Gain Deception as the weapon proc
Spells added to List:
Invisibility (lvl 2)
*Mislead (lvl 6)
*Scintillating Pattern (lvl 8)

War
Static: Proficiency and Focus with Deity's Favored Weapon
Spells added to List:
*Spiritual Weapon (lvl 2)
Divine Power (lvl 4)
Power Word: Stun (lvl 8)

Water
Static: +1 CL with Water Spells, Turn Fire Creatures with Turn Undead
Spells added to List:
Obscuring Mist (lvl 1)
Ice Storm (lvl 5)
Horrid Wilting (lvl 8)

Weather
Static: Elemental Resistance 2 (Acid, Cold, Fire & Lightning)
Spells added to List:
*Fog Cloud (lvl 2)
Call Lightning Storm (lvl 5)
*Storm of Vengeance (lvl 9)

* spells that could/should be added to the game to really make it work


Aesop

[Kilnedric]

I don't see why this needs to be so far away from the PNP system. I don't like changing to an SLA mechanic. I think that PNP system translates well for the most part. Most of the minor abilities work for DDO. Bonusus and feats, and even turning elementals and things might be fun.

If straight up adding spells to the spell list is deemed too powerful, I'd go with a per-rest limit. This even matches PNP because you only had one domain "slot" per level right? And maybe you can increase the uses-per-rest with AP. Say you start at 1 per rest and can increase up to 3 per rest with AP?

[Chai]

If its the PnP system, im so building a battlecleric with fire and travel for haste and a firewall to sit in the middle of my blade barriers.

[maddmatt70]

I like your proposal OP. Some posters point out some of your domains may be Overpowered for one reason or another. My main comment though is I would restrict this to 6-8 domains that is not because I do not want more domians it is because I think 20ish would require too much dev work whereas 8 domains or so would require much less dev work. Someday if the devs want to expand domains again then go to 20.

[Brennie]

Lets not forget some of the feats thtat these domains grant at lvl 9 mind you are also ridiculously overpowered. Slay Living Guard at lvl 9 on a self healing class? Sheesh. (...)

Ah, but you miss the unspoken downside - being permanently dis-invited from every Let Sleeping Dust Lie, Slavers of the Shrieking Mines, Stealthy Repossession (Favor runs, in this case) and possibly also Hound of Xoriat quest ever run (Among others that I am sure I'm forgetting).

Can you imagine taking a party member through Sleeping Dust, when they have a NON REMOVABLE slay living guard XD Oi Vey!

To OP: Right idea, wrong power level (this is CLEARLY over nine thousand). I'm in the "Clerics get to choose one Domain at character creation" camp (Like a class-based bonus feat), and i believe that Domains should have small benefits that increase with more Cleric level (Minor boosts at 10 and 20, perhaps). I'm also against SLAs. SLAs are a definition of a prestige or FvS capstone so far, and i don't think they should be given out freely without even considering Cleric Prestige lines.

I also think people are undervaluing having cleric spells at multiple cleric levels - For instance being able to slot Mass Deathward at 7 instead of 8, or Heal at 5 instead of 6. This would give options to fill up some not-as-essential spell levels with key spells, while opening up more options for spell loadouts!

I also warn against giving clerics access to arcane-only spells, via SLAs or spell list additions. Either these spells will lack enhancement lines and be relatively useless, or they will be in SLA form/have enhancement lines/be balanced some other way which will severely step on Arcane's toes.

[Superspeed_Hi5]

Ah, but you miss the unspoken downside - being permanently dis-invited from every Let Sleeping Dust Lie, Slavers of the Shrieking Mines, Stealthy Repossession (Favor runs, in this case) and possibly also Hound of Xoriat quest ever run (Among others that I am sure I'm forgetting).

Can you imagine taking a party member through Sleeping Dust, when they have a NON REMOVABLE slay living guard XD Oi Vey!

Either that or they really like to pike! Hey guys I got a perma slay living guard is it cool if I pike?

::Boot:: Dammit hes in the quest!

[Aesop]

I like your proposal OP. Some posters point out some of your domains may be Overpowered for one reason or another. My main comment though is I would restrict this to 6-8 domains that is not because I do not want more domians it is because I think 20ish would require too much dev work whereas 8 domains or so would require much less dev work. Someday if the devs want to expand domains again then go to 20.

You are probably right about limiting the starting number.

But Which ones would you start with?

Do you start with the 4 Elemental and 4 Alignment?

Or should we ignore those and go with something like

War
Healing
Death
Strength
Protection
Darkness
Magic
Travel
Trickery

Druids are coming as well so maybe Plant and Animal won't be too difficult once those get going.



Maybe because of the similarity of function the Elements and Alignments will be easily coded?

I put my suggestion with only 3 spells per Domain because there are so many spells that just don't fit into the game that if we either had to substitute them all or only use Domains with full Spell lists that are already viable ... we'd end up with nothing or worse.

The Granted Powers for the most part did need some upgrading to make many of them remotely attractive.

Aesop