Comprehensive Cleric Domain Proposal

[Yalann]

This seems like a very good way to just make clerics VASTLY overpowered. Some of these 'domains' are better than entire PRE lines. Have you seen domains in pnp? They don't provide boatloads of abilities. They usually give access to spells, not SLAs, and 1-2 very minor abilities. That is how they should be. The war domain, for example, is just absurd. This is better damage than the entire offensive fvs PRE. The SLAs alone are OP. But then kinetic line for BBs that do more than the 30% fvs pre gives?



Your suggestion:

War Domain
Feat: Gives Martial Weapon Proficiency,Weapon Focus, Improved Crtical for diety choosen weapon, +1 caster level evocation
Enhancements:
SLA: Divine Power 1AP
SLA: Power Word Stun 2AP
SLA: Blade Barrier 3AP 60 second cooldown
Kinetic damage and crit line

PnP War Domain:

Granted Power

Free Martial Weapon Proficiency with deity’s favored weapon (if necessary) and Weapon Focus with the deity’s favored weapon.
War Domain Spells

1 Magic Weapon: Weapon gains +1 bonus.
2 Spiritual Weapon: Magical weapon attacks on its own.
3 Magic Vestment: Armor or shield gains +1 enhancement per four levels.
4 Divine Power: You gain attack bonus, +6 to Str, and 1 hp/level.
5 Flame Strike: Smite foes with divine fire (1d6/level damage).
6 Blade Barrier: Wall of blades deals 1d6/level damage.
7 Power Word Blind: Blinds creature with 200 hp or less.
8 Power Word Stun: Stuns creature with 150 hp or less.
9 Power Word Kill: Kills creature with 100 hp or less.

The logical transition would be that you do exactly what the pnp does for war. You get these spells at each level specified for free. You get the bonus for weapons as it states. Done. Very simple, still provides a nice benefit by giving you access to ALOT of spells, and a bonus ability. These aren't meant to be powerful. I mean clerics get TWO of these for free in pnp.

[azrael4h]

Ya know one thing that was suggested a LONG time ago is having the Domain Spells act like the Dragon Mark Spells... ie a limited number of castings per spell but allows full Metamagic. Not sure that is necessary now but its something to throw out there.

1st effect you start with 3 castings at 5th level you gain an extra casting of the first tier and 2 casting of the second tier at 9th level you gain and extra casting of the 1st and 2nd tier and 2 castings of the 3rd tier etc to the 5th tier at 17the level. Additionally there were Enhancements for Extra Castings.

Aesop

If this is the case then don't bother implementing them. Dragonmarks are, at best, wasted feats that provide minimal benefit now.

Implementing them properly means they actually have a use. Which means not a limited use clicky.

[Dunklerlindwurm]

Oh nice and overpowered.

Better SLAs then Archmage without any penalty. I take it

Guess this at least shows how they should not do it.

[DevHead]

Plant Domain, Tier 3 - Control Plants

Really? Seems boring compared to...I don't know....Death Domain? How about putting Horrid Wilting for Tier 3 Plant Domain. Makes more sense to me.

[Gauthaag]

I mean clerics get TWO of these for free in pnp.

Nope, Sir ...clerics get only one bonus slot for domain spell per lvl, so they must decide which spell from two domain spells they d memorize into that one

[Chai]

which is why firewall has been nerfed a few times, I gave it a 60 second cooldown and again clerics are going to have to invest extra AP to get the firewall damage up with the current ammount 6 just to get firewall and then however much of the damage line they feel they need likely at least another 6+ thats allot of other things that cleric will miss out on

If they would actually give us more of the spells from P&P and make them all work fairly well, we wouldnt have this dilema of one spell that is still hugely OP after 3 "nerfs".

I also dont consider the crit on damage chance change -vs- the crit on cast chance change a nerf. I am actually more efficient now than I was then, because I didnt have to throw down 5 walls on average to get that crit wall. I can throw em down one at a time.

The spell lasts for 30 seconds, and you gave it a 60 second cooldown. That means the cleric can have one up for half the time they are in the quest. I dont even know casters who have firewalls up half the time unless they are in zones with lots of wraiths or other undead.

The main issue with persistent AE is the AI that you can keep kiting through it and will follow you straight to their deaths. This makes persistent AE very powerful in general. When a mob isnt immune to fire, artificers are running shop in quests with alot of melee mobs, such as eVON1. While they do not have a 60 second cooldown, they can only have one turret up at a time. That limitation doesnt seem to curtail the power of the spell that much.

[Gremmlynn]

Doesn't the game already have something along the lines of domains in it with the Silver Flame, Sovereign Host and various racial sect enhancements?

Those seem to add that bit of flavor everyone who brings up domains asks for without simply adding more power to an already good class, that I assume is the "flavor" they really want.

[Therrias]

This seems like a very good way to just make clerics VASTLY overpowered. Some of these 'domains' are better than entire PRE lines. Have you seen domains in pnp? They don't provide boatloads of abilities. They usually give access to spells, not SLAs, and 1-2 very minor abilities. That is how they should be. The war domain, for example, is just absurd. This is better damage than the entire offensive fvs PRE. The SLAs alone are OP. But then kinetic line for BBs that do more than the 30% fvs pre gives?



Your suggestion:





PnP War Domain:

Granted Power

Free Martial Weapon Proficiency with deity’s favored weapon (if necessary) and Weapon Focus with the deity’s favored weapon.
War Domain Spells

1 Magic Weapon: Weapon gains +1 bonus.
2 Spiritual Weapon: Magical weapon attacks on its own.
3 Magic Vestment: Armor or shield gains +1 enhancement per four levels.
4 Divine Power: You gain attack bonus, +6 to Str, and 1 hp/level.
5 Flame Strike: Smite foes with divine fire (1d6/level damage).
6 Blade Barrier: Wall of blades deals 1d6/level damage.
7 Power Word Blind: Blinds creature with 200 hp or less.
8 Power Word Stun: Stuns creature with 150 hp or less.
9 Power Word Kill: Kills creature with 100 hp or less.

The logical transition would be that you do exactly what the pnp does for war. You get these spells at each level specified for free. You get the bonus for weapons as it states. Done. Very simple, still provides a nice benefit by giving you access to ALOT of spells, and a bonus ability. These aren't meant to be powerful. I mean clerics get TWO of these for free in pnp.

I concur.

[Qezuzu]

To me, it seems the PnP domains are weak, and not very compatible with DDO.

Domains would probably work best as a free feat line, like FvS have with their faith. As a free thing, a different penalty should be given.

The domains should be moderately useful, but not incredibly powerful, and should add a lot of diversity to the class.

When judging balance, do take into consideration the power of the FvS class. Ever since their PrE came out, I have been seeing FAR fewer clerics. They're a very powerful class, and cleric needs something to compete.

Most power should be present at cap. The cleric capstone is relatively weak, and splashes like clonks are common because of this. There should be a hard(ish) choice between the domain capstone and a splash.

I think it would be interesting if each domain was designed to give a certain other class benefits, along with the cleric.

Some examples:

Death domain: bonus to Death and inflict spells, support for Palemasters
Penalty: 10% increase in healing spells' SP cost.
1st level: Fear SLA
5th level: 15% bonus to negative energy damage
10th level: Enervation SLA, another 10% bonus to negative energy damage.
15th level: Activate Aura of Wilting (Aura that gives enemies -2 to saves against Death spells)
20th level: Death Aura as a spell, Inflict Horrid Curse (single target, savant like curse. Doubles incoming negative energy)

Trickery domain: rogue-like combat bonuses, support for rogues
Penalty: -2 to fort saves?
1st level: +2 bonus to reflex saves
5th level: one bonus sneak attack die
10th level: Activate Aura of Lies (auto-bluff to nearby enemies every 10 seconds or so. Add 1/2 character level to bluff checks)
15th level: two additional SA die
20th level: Wicked Colaberation: bonuses to rogue and self when in close proximity to a rogue (no splashes: dominant class must be rogue)
Bonus to the rogue(s): two additional sneak attack die, +2 to assassinate DC, 10% fortification bypass.
Bonus to the cleric: three additional SA die, +4 to reflex saves
Possible limitation: Trickery die do not stack with helf rogue dilly die.

Earth domain: bonus to self hit points and survivability, support for tanks and Acid spells
Penalty: -2 to reflex saves?
1st level: Hit die increased to 1d9 (1 additional HP per level)
5th level: DR 3/adamantine
10th level: savant like curse, stacks with savant curse, 10% increase to acid damage.
15th level: 10 bonus HP
20th level: DR improves to 7/adamantine, Iron Skin as a 9th level spell (grants DR 15/adamantine on self or ally until 20*CL have been absorbed. Long cooldown and high SP cost).

S

[bloodnose13]

some of those seem very powerful, others more utility like, anyway they are good idea,they would need lot of balancing to make them work,but one thing is sure, it would make clerics more popular to play

[orakio]

Sorry but I agree that as is the OP's suggestion is ridiculously broken. Aesop has it right in that domain feats in DDO should be flavor bonuses but far from huge character bonuses, clerics just simply don't need that much help as they are already incredibly effective.

Ideas like being able to automatically slot your domain spells are good. Being able to get SMALL bonus feats, like the equivalent of a spell focus or weapon focus, is ok. Being able to get slight bonuses to specific spells especially if you spend AP on it is ok.

Things like the War domains free bonuses and access to kinetic lines, inherent guards like airguard/enervation guard/etc., +10enhancement bonus to strength and spell immunity spells from strength domain, are just WAY WAY too much.

[Duke-H-]

Not going to comment on the balance of this suggestion.

I just want to say that i think any implementation of domains using enhancements/AP is a mistake.
Unless they get "special AP" that can only be spent on domain enhancements, putting it in the main enhancement system would just be giving with one hand and taking away with the other.

Implementation via a bonus feat system seems to me the way to go (similar to how fvs get their deity bonuses and monks pick light/dark).

[Gremmlynn]

Not going to comment on the balance of this suggestion.

I just want to say that i think any implementation of domains using enhancements/AP is a mistake.
Unless they get "special AP" that can only be spent on domain enhancements, putting it in the main enhancement system would just be giving with one hand and taking away with the other.

Implementation via a bonus feat system seems to me the way to go (similar to how fvs get their deity bonuses and monks pick light/dark).

To me, not giving with one hand and taking away with the other, at least to some degree, would be a mistake. I don't see how adding options necessitates adding more total options, just more choices.

[Noelemahc]

Air Domain
Feat: 10 inherent electric resist, turn earth creatures, inate airguard, +1 caster level evocation
Enhancements:
SLA: Obscuring Mist 1AP
SLA: Chain Lightning 2AP
SLA: Whirlwind 3AP
Electric Damage and Crit Lines

Animal Domain
Feat: acts like Augment Summon
Enhancements:
SLA: Hold Animal 1AP
SLA: Dominate Animal 2AP
SLA: Shapechange 3AP

Choas Domain
Feat: Adds 1d6 choas damage to all attacks, 1d6 random element to all attacks +1 caster level evocation, turn lawful outsiders
Enhancements:
SLA: Choas Hammer 1AP
SLA: Cloak of Chaos 2AP
SLA: Word of Chaos 3AP

Death Domain
Feat:Inate slay living guard, +1 caster level necromancy
Enhancements:
SLA: Cause Fear 1AP
SLA: Death Kneel 2AP
SLA: Destruction 3AP

Destruction Domain
Feat: Smite(like paladin)
Enhancements:
SLA: Inflict Light Wounds 1AP
SLA: Infict Critical Wounds 2AP
SLA: Disintegrate 3AP
Full smite line(minus exhalted smite)

Earth Domain
Feat: acts like Toughness, turn air creatures, 10 inherent acid resist, +1 caster level transmutation
Enhancements:
SLA: Quicksand 1AP
SLA: Stoneskin 2AP
SLA: Acid Blast 3AP
Acid damage and crit lines

Evil Domain
Feat: innate enervation guard, +1 necromancy caster level
Enhancements:
SLA: Create Undead 1AP
SLA: Summon Monster IX 2AP
SLA: Blasphemy 3AP

Fire Domain
Feat: 10 inherent fire resistance, +1 caster level evocation, turn water creatures
Enhancements:
SLA: Burning Hands 1AP
SLA: Fire Shield 2AP
SLA: Firewall 3AP 60 second cooldown
Fire damage and crit line

Good Domain
Feat: +1 caster level evocation
Enhancements:
SLA: Protection from Evil 1AP
SLA: Holy Smite 2AP
SLA: Holy Word 3AP

Healing Domain
Feat: +1 caster level conjuration
Enhancements:
SLA: Cure Light Wounds 1AP 4 second cooldown(twice length of fvs capstone)
SLA: Cure Moderate Wounds 2AP 8 second cooldown
SLA: Cure Serious 3AP 16 second cooldown

Knowledge Domain
Feat: wisdom mod as reflex bonus, +1 caster level divination
Enhancements:
SLA: Detect Secret Doors 1AP
SLA: True Seeing 2AP
SLA: Death Pact 3AP(component free casting)

Law Domain
Feat: +1 caster level enchantment, turn chaotic outsiders
Enhancements:
SLA: Command 1AP
SLA: Hold Monster 2AP
SLA: Dictum 3AP

Luck Domain
Feat: acts like lightning reflexes, +1 caster level enchantment, innate blur
Enhancements:
SLA: Freedom of Movement 1AP
SLA: Break Enchantment 2AP
SLA: Mislead 3AP

Magic Domain
Feat: Treats your cleric levels as half wizard levels for the purpose of scrolls and wands, +1 caster level abjuration
Enhancements:
SLA: Dispel Magic 1AP
SLA: Disjunction 2AP
SLA: Antimagic Field 3AP

Plant Domain
Feat: +6 natural armor bonus, thornguard, command plants via turns, +1 caster level transmutation
Enhancements:
SLA: Barkskin 1AP
SLA: Spike Growth 2AP
SLA: Control Plants 3AP

Protection Domain
Feat:+6 resistance bonus area buff via turns, 10 inherent light resistance, +1 caster level abjuration
Enhancements:
SLA: Protection from Energy 1AP
SLA: Energy Resistance 2AP
SLA: Spell Resistance 3AP 60 second cooldown

Strength Domain
Feat:+1 enhancement bonus to strength per 2 character level(1 min duration) via turns(self target only)
Enhancements:
SLA: Bulls Strength 1AP
SLA: Enlarge Person 2AP
SLA: Spell Immunity 3AP,

Sun Domain
Feat: 10 inherent light resistance, +1 caster level evocation
Enhancements:
SLA: Searing Light 1AP
SLA: Sunburst 2AP
SLA: Sunbeam 3AP

Travel Domain
Feat: inherent freedom of movement, +1 caster level conjuration, can use turns to make dimension door
Enhancements:
SLA: Jump 1AP
SLA: Teleport 2AP
SLA: Greater Teleport 3AP

Trickery Domain
Feat: acts like Stealthy, makes bluff, hide, move silently class skills, +1 caster level illusion
Enhancements:
SLA: Invisibility 1AP
SLA: Hypnotic Pattern 2AP
SLA: Mislead 3AP

War Domain
Feat: Gives Martial Weapon Proficiency,Weapon Focus, Improved Crtical for diety choosen weapon, +1 caster level evocation
Enhancements:
SLA: Divine Power 1AP
SLA: Power Word Stun 2AP
SLA: Blade Barrier 3AP 60 second cooldown
Kinetic damage and crit line

Water Domain
Feat: 10 inherent cold resistance, turn fire creature, +1 caster level evocation
Enhancements:
SLA: Obscuring Mist 1AP
SLA: Water Breathing 2AP
SLA: Ice Storm 3AP 60 second cooldown
Cold damage and crit line

No.

[bigcrashzone]

Disregard

[deadkitty]

snip

In before the ban hammer strikes!

[Aesop]

back on Topic.

Domains for Clerics are a good idea. Letting them offer specific improvements is a good idea.

Making them ungodly powerful ... not such a good idea.


Aesop

[Xeraphim]

I like these ideas, and the Domains are long overdue. Then again, so is Druid, and there is a lot of Character Building content that has not been completed to 20 yet. Many existing PrEs still do not have Capstones, some PrEs are incomplete, and many loot tables lack PrE-specific gear in generally PrE-specific loot tables.

[Xeraphim]

back on Topic.

Domains for Clerics are a good idea. Letting them offer specific improvements is a good idea.

Making them ungodly powerful ... not such a good idea.


Aesop

"Ungodly Power" is why you see so many Sorcerers (and Half Orc Barbarians) and almost no healers. Clerics come standard with Healing spells loaded every level. I see no reason to avoid making them attractive to play.

[InsanityIsYourFriend]

love the idea, hate that if implemented as is would make them basically the only class played... ever
weaken them a bit, and balance between the different domains is not required just the ones that are better would be used a lot more and the ones not used would be niche