Comprehensive Cleric Domain Proposal

[Therrias]

As to the not liking SLA thing. This was an attempt to not allow the normal domain spell system because it would be vastly vastly overpowered in DDO because of the SP system so the best way to control it was to use preselected spells with separately controlled cooldowns to vastly limit what each domain offered.

Are you thinking that free spells are less powerful than normal spells?

[Aeolwind]

Some observations:

-War Domain is a bit over the top with 2 free feats built in.
-Spell Immunity is O_O. It would need to absorb incoming beneficial spells as well, and even then it is over the top.
-Evil Domain is way over the top with Summon Monster IX.
-Wall of Fire, disjunction, disintegrate and Ice Storm = right out

I agree that SLA's are probably the best way to handle domains since many areas lack a spell at all. However what you have listed here make an already not under-performing class become the most over powered pile of megawatt destruction.

[Aesop]

Overall theory isn't bad ... though you may need to work on implementation.

Suggestions.

Start Small. PnP you get your Domains at 1st level.

so take your Air Domain.

At 1st level you get

Turn Earth Elemental (your turn undead affects both EEs and Undead)
Electric Resist 2
Caster Level +1 For Air Domain Spells
Adds Air Domain Spells to the Cleric's Spell List
Opens Storm Line Enhancements

• +Electric Damage
• +Electric Crit Range
• +Electric Crit Multiplier
• Reduced Air Domain Spell Cost
• Other Air/Electric Enhancements
• Perhaps a line to improve the Inherent Resistance

Every odd level the Electric Resistance increases by 1

at 20th level it would allow for

Air Master Capstone

+15% to Lighting Damage
Air Guard


Spread out the benefits and have the costs be in Enhancements. Allow for it to customize the Cleric.

Aesop


Oh and its ok if not every spell is included just get 4 or 5 spread out through the levels maybe 1st 3rd 5th 7th and 9th level spells

[Combat_Wombat]

Are you thinking that free spells are less powerful than normal spells?

You look at that domain spell list he linked? LOL you bet I do SP is worth nothing every class is a SP generating machine between all the clickies and torc and conc op weapon and item. The only way to balance is with cooldowns.

[Combat_Wombat]

Some observations:

-War Domain is a bit over the top with 2 free feats built in.
-Spell Immunity is O_O. It would need to absorb incoming beneficial spells as well, and even then it is over the top.
-Evil Domain is way over the top with Summon Monster IX.
-Wall of Fire, disjunction, disintegrate and Ice Storm = right out

I agree that SLA's are probably the best way to handle domains since many areas lack a spell at all. However what you have listed here make an already not under-performing class become the most over powered pile of megawatt destruction.

War Domain only covers the diety weapons so, longsword, greatsword, scimitar not the highest preforming weapons to start with its no different then dark monks and shortswords.

Spell Immunity could be toned down a bit

Summon Monster IX is OP? I guess I am missing something

All those spells listed I don't see the problems with them either

[Antheal]

Maybe you should try to adapt the 3.5 D&D Cleric Domain system for DDO instead of trying to make up something completely new?

[Aelonwy]

Clerics would lose their free healing spell slots since those currently represent domain spells.

First of all THIS^ is incorrect. The healing spell slot represents the feat or rather class feature called Spontaneous Casting which in the Players Handbook states a good or neutral cleric may channel stored spell energy into healing spells that the cleric did not prepare ahead of time.

Because DDO uses spell points instead of spells per day they gave clerics a healing spell slot per spell level to represent this class feature.

A domain spell slot would come in addition to this not remove it.

[Aesop]

You look at that domain spell list he linked? LOL you bet I do SP is worth nothing every class is a SP generating machine between all the clickies and torc and conc op weapon and item. The only way to balance is with cooldowns.

Ya know one thing that was suggested a LONG time ago is having the Domain Spells act like the Dragon Mark Spells... ie a limited number of castings per spell but allows full Metamagic. Not sure that is necessary now but its something to throw out there.

1st effect you start with 3 castings at 5th level you gain an extra casting of the first tier and 2 casting of the second tier at 9th level you gain and extra casting of the 1st and 2nd tier and 2 castings of the 3rd tier etc to the 5th tier at 17the level. Additionally there were Enhancements for Extra Castings.

Aesop

[Therrias]

You look at that domain spell list he linked? LOL you bet I do SP is worth nothing every class is a SP generating machine between all the clickies and torc and conc op weapon and item. The only way to balance is with cooldowns.

Really? Enervation guard at 1st level you think is not OP but adding 1 decent spell to your list is?

Yeah, it might be annoying to see clerics running around spamming Wall of fire or disintegrate or wail. But its not like you get all of them. Those domains with a good spell in them: those are usually the only good thing you get for those domains.

Anyway. You could have them cast as a full sp spell with a longer cooldown. You could have them cast as clickies, 1 per rest.

[Aesop]

Maybe you should try to adapt the 3.5 D&D Cleric Domain system for DDO instead of trying to make up something completely new?

Doesn't work well. Remember for spells not on the normal cleric spell list you only got the domain casting additionally many of the spells don't and couldn't work in DDO and most of the other benefits are underpowered for the game.

There are ways to make Domains worthwhile and flavorful without overpowering them. Its just a juggling act

Aesop

[Therrias]

Maybe you should try to adapt the 3.5 D&D Cleric Domain system for DDO instead of trying to make up something completely new?

That's what I was suggesting. We don't need to reinvent the wheel here.

[Aesop]

Really? Enervation guard at 1st level you think is not OP but adding 1 decent spell to your list is?

Yeah, it might be annoying to see clerics running around spamming Wall of fire or disintegrate or wail. But its not like you get all of them. Those domains with a good spell in them: those are usually the only good thing you get for those domains.

Anyway. You could have them cast as a full sp spell with a longer cooldown. You could have them cast as clickies, 1 per rest.

just to clarify s/he was holding domains off til 9th level so you wouldn't get the EG til at least then if not 18th level... though I wouldn't want that as an ability anyway.... something lesser perhaps

Aesop

[Combat_Wombat]

just to clarify s/he was holding domains off til 9th level so you wouldn't get the EG til at least then if not 18th level... though I wouldn't want that as an ability anyway.... something lesser perhaps

Aesop

This one was a toughie I went with enervation guard on evil because it was the only thing that came to me its definitely up in the air if someone has a good replacement.

[Chai]

Clerics with firewall and blade barrier would own this game. Sure there arent too many raids where that is OP, but there are alot of quests that would not even present a challenge.

Wall of fire is a fire domain spell in P&P, but mobs arent stupid enough to just waltz through it repeatedly like they are in DDO.

[Aelonwy]

I wrote up no domain powers. This was just a sample spell list using what was already available in DDO at the time.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Two Domains should be FREELY chosen at creation as domains and their subsequent powers are part of the cleric class but I can see any spells added to the clerics spell list or made available at a lower spell level cost AP in DDO's enhancement system; also if anyone wants to add a third or fourth bonus domain ie prestige domain each should cost a feat called Bonus Domain. The spells a cleric would gain access to are contingent upon purchasing each tier so you could not get the third spell without purchasing the previous two. Also the spells would be prepared like any other cleric spell, taking up the bonus domain slot of the designated spell level. In most cases the level of the spell is only changed if it is already a cleric spell, so that the cleric would receive it one spell level earlier.

This is NOT an example of SLA's but an example of spells given in the clerics spellbook and cast as divine spells.

Spell examples(Just examples), cost and level:

Air Domain:
Gust of Wind (2nd lvl) 1AP
Lightning Bolt (3rd lvl) 2AP
Cyclonic Blast (5th lvl) 3AP

Animal Domain:
Ram’s Might (2nd lvl) 1AP
Hold Animal (3rd lvl) 2AP
Wild Instincts (4th lvl) 3AP
This could be better with a greater selection from druid spells.

Chaos Domain: (Must be chaotic alignment.)
Hypnotic Pattern (2nd lvl) 1AP
Chaos Hammer (as 3rd lvl instead of 4th lvl) 2AP
Prismatic Ray (5th lvl) 3AP

Death Domain:
Lesser Death Aura (2nd lvl) 1AP
Unholy Blight (as 3rd lvl instead of 4th lvl) 2AP
Circle of Death (6th lvl) 3AP

Destruction Domain:
Deific Vengeance (1st lvl instead of 2nd lvl) 1AP
Slay Living (4th lvl instead of 5th lvl) 2AP
Destruction (6th lvl instead of 7th lvl) 3AP

Earth Domain:
Camouflage (2nd lvl) 1AP
Stoneskin (4th lvl) 2 AP
Flesh to Stone (6th) 3 AP


Fire Domain:
Scorching Ray (2nd lvl) 1AP
Fireball (3rd lvl) 2 AP
Wall of Fire (4th lvl) 3AP

Good Domain: (Must be good alignment.)
Magic Circle Against Evil (2nd instead of 3rd lvl) 1AP
Holy Smite (3rd instead of 4th lvl) 2AP
Greater Heroism (6th lvl) 3AP

Healing Domain:
Cure Serious (2nd instead of 3rd lvl) 1AP
Panacea (3rd instead of 4th lvl) 2AP
Heal (5th instead of 6th lvl) 3AP

Knowledge Domain:
Detect Secret Doors (1st lvl) 1AP
See Invisibility (2nd lvl) 2AP
True Seeing (4th instead of 5th lvl) 3AP

Law: (Must be lawful alignment.)
Angelskin (2nd lvl) 1AP
Order’s Wrath (3rd instead of 4th) 2AP
Stalwart Pact (4th instead of 5th) 3AP

Luck:
Blur (2nd lvl) 1AP
Good Hope (3rd lvl) 2AP
Break Enchantment (4th instead of 5th) 3AP

Magic:
Dispel Magic (2nd instead of 3rd lvl) 1AP
Chain Missles (3rd lvl) 2AP
Spell Resistance (4th instead of 5th lvl) 3AP

Plant:
Barkskin (2nd lvl) 1AP
Spike Growth (3rd lvl) 2AP
? Need another plant related spell.

Protection:
Protection from Energy (2nd instead of 3rd lvl) 1AP
Displacement (3rd lvl) 2AP
Lesser Globe of Invulnerability (4th lvl) 3AP

Strength: (Possibly)
Ram's Might (2nd lvl) 1 AP
Divine Power (3rd lvl instead of 4th lvl) 2 AP
Symbol of Weakness (6th lvl instead of 7th lvl) 3AP
(Not sure how to handle this one when Bull’s Strength is often not of much use and many of the better PnP spells for this domain are not in DDO like Enlarge and Righteous Might. )

Sun:
Searing Light (2nd instead of 3rd lvl) 1AP
Deathward (3rd instead of 4th lvl) 2AP
Flamestrike (4th instead of 5th lvl) 3AP

Travel:
Haste (3rd lvl) 1AP
Dimension Door (4th lvl) 2AP
Teleport (5th lvl) 3AP

Trickery:
Invisibility (2nd lvl) 1AP
Knock (3rd lvl) 2AP
Shadow Walk (6th lvl) 3AP

War:
Lionheart (2nd lvl) 1AP
Rage (3rd lvl) 2AP
Blade Barrier (5th instead of 6th lvl) 3AP

Water:
Snowball Swarm (2nd lvl) 1AP
Sleet Storm (3rd lvl) 2AP
Cone of Cold (5th lvl) 3AP

I must say Aesop's suggestion here, is a good one too.

Ya know one thing that was suggested a LONG time ago is having the Domain Spells act like the Dragon Mark Spells... ie a limited number of castings per spell but allows full Metamagic. Not sure that is necessary now but its something to throw out there.

1st effect you start with 3 castings at 5th level you gain an extra casting of the first tier and 2 casting of the second tier at 9th level you gain and extra casting of the 1st and 2nd tier and 2 castings of the 3rd tier etc to the 5th tier at 17the level. Additionally there were Enhancements for Extra Castings.

Aesop

[Combat_Wombat]

Clerics with firewall and blade barrier would own this game. Sure there arent too many raids where that is OP, but there are alot of quests that would not even present a challenge.

Wall of fire is a fire domain spell in P&P, but mobs arent stupid enough to just waltz through it repeatedly like they are in DDO.

which is why firewall has been nerfed a few times, I gave it a 60 second cooldown and again clerics are going to have to invest extra AP to get the firewall damage up with the current ammount 6 just to get firewall and then however much of the damage line they feel they need likely at least another 6+ thats allot of other things that cleric will miss out on

[Aesop]

This one was a toughie I went with enervation guard on evil because it was the only thing that came to me its definitely up in the air if someone has a good replacement.

Well... if I was following my pattern I'd go with

lvl 1
Evil Domain

DR 1/Good (Improves every 4 levels max DR 5/Good at 17 +Enhancements)
+1 Caster Level for Spells of the Evil Domain
Evil Enhancements (which just sounds funny as hell)

Capstone Enhancement could be Enervation Guard though

Aesop

[Aesop]

As a note I'd love to see Desecration added as a spell... I could see a cool dynamic duo of an Evil Cleric and a PM team lovin that spell.

[Aesop]

Further note. I think it would be ok if initially Clerics were limited to a single Domain instead of the normal two as long as the benefits were significant enough.

Aesop

[Combat_Wombat]

Further note. I think it would be ok if initially Clerics were limited to a single Domain instead of the normal two as long as the benefits were significant enough.

Aesop

Maybe 2 lists choose one then choose the other off the other list so they could be balanced against each other easier instead of À la carte?