LET'S TALK: Lamannia

[stainer]

And hail Lolth.

All Hail.

[Cyr]

The list goes on and on, but the myopic playerbase just cares about their toys instead of the betterment of the game. Yes, the devs see the big picture..

Perhaps the big picture is actually bigger then the comparative power level of one item?

What is the big picture here?

Well the big picture is that this item is a staple of many current melee builds who are weaker then casters now and the goal was to make it more useful and not less useful originally for those builds.

That seems pretty simple to me. Sidetracks hurt the main goal.

[Cyr]

That has got to be the lamest excuse I've ever seen posted for rationalizing a dumb nerf.

Madstone boosts are the reason DEX builds aren't viable? Really? There are so many things that could/should be done to make DEX build more viable and nerfing Madstone boots is maybe number 47th on the list.

We see the picture better because we actually play the game. The devs should listen to us as we are the customers paying them for our entertainment.

lol, yeah well someone who equates the reason why dex builds went away with to hit scores and madstone boots is clearly seeing things clearly.

It's not like my dex builds did not love the madstone boots and certainly did not get re-rolled when they came out. Instead that honor goes to mob to hits and grazing hits.

[Chai]

We do not know what the limitation on resources the devs have to work with and we do not know what takes them little time to do and what takes them a lot of time to do. The ladder bug is a famous bug, but my guess is that would take the devs a lot of work and effort to fix; hence, they have never fully fixed it especially since it adds less benefit to the game then other things they could spend alot of time fixing or making a new.

I bet if the ladder bug could be used to make 100kPP per minute, or trivialize every quest in the game, the servers would all come down within minutes of finding that out. Its not a matter of not being able to conveniently do things or not, its a matter of priority in relation to how it affects the game.

I like surprises. I am actually in favor of a more closed testing environment where possible so that I can be surprised somewhat when the content hits live. I do not think the players have much valuable feedback when it comes to the details to truely offer other then from a bug standpoint e.g. the boss at end of quest X becomes frozen when I do Y. From a big picture standpoint the players have something to offer, but that can be ferreted out from the forums here and feedback from other sources in game. Such as making ranged combat matter is something many forum and others have voiced in many forms. How making ranged combat better is implemented I think should be more developer driven..

This is how most MMOs work. Some of them have devs communicationg with the community regularly, some dont, but the changes and additions are dev and managment driven for the most part. I know someones going to plow in here with a starcraft 2 link any second now, and I will respond like I usually do, by saying that claiming bliz devs respond to feedback better than any other MMO dev is a myth.

[Seikojin]

Thanks Madfloyd. I like Lamannia getting updates super early for all the right reasons. I hope others see the good in it as well.

[GeneralDiomedes]

Well the big picture is that this item is a staple of many current melee builds who are weaker then casters now and the goal was to make it more useful and not less useful originally for those builds.

MadFloyd hinted that more would be coming for melees, did he not? I would reserve judgement until the enhancement trees are released. Then you will get the whole picture.

[sweez]

Modifying existing (several year old, to boot) gear in february because of the huge changes coming in august (maybe?) is a bit silly, no?

[InsanityIsYourFriend]

I really like that this is becoming a test server, I always wanted to be part of mourn but I never got the chance ~i dont think~ This will help a lot due to my problem with finding a time i can get on a lot
and I seriously thank the higher ups for allowing more devs, as before I could never get a reply from any dev even when i made a forum that said hey devs, but within a week of me hearing more devs hired I have had a dev reply to me, it really helps when you know that your feed back is actually acknowledged more than a seemingly automated reply ^^ ~no offense to the one who reply'd...~
the more the devs respond the more we give imput the more the devs see what is actually in need of repair the better the game is let me know if the reasoning here is that flawed

[Dracoian]

Nice change to lama.. But are there going to be a boost to XP like in U12.. or is it just going to be DEV events that is in the middle of the night.. :P

[Produktion_Malphunktion]

MadFloyd hinted that more would be coming for melees, did he not? I would reserve judgement until the enhancement trees are released. Then you will get the whole picture.

It's on the list.Yes.

[dkyle]

MadFloyd hinted that more would be coming for melees, did he not? I would reserve judgement until the enhancement trees are released. Then you will get the whole picture.

And what exactly is the purpose of holding our tongues until we get the "whole picture"? A nerf to melee is a nerf to melee, and if we don't think melee should be nerfed, then we should argue against it. We don't know what else is coming, so it's pointless to make any assumptions about yet-to-be-announced changes. We should give feedback based on what we know, and what we think is likely, being clear to temper our statements as necessary, given the uncertainty.

Also, saying the boots changes run contrary to the devs' stated goals does not depend on what other changes happen. Massive buffs could be coming for melee with the enhancement changes, and the boots changes would still be a nerf to melee. And whether big buffs come or not, nerfing our gear into uselessness is still a bad thing, that shouldn't be done lightly.

[somenewnoob]

And what exactly is the purpose of holding our tongues until we get the "whole picture"? A nerf to melee is a nerf to melee, and if we don't think melee should be nerfed, then we should argue against it. We don't know what else is coming, so it's pointless to make any assumptions about yet-to-be-announced changes. We should give feedback based on what we know, and what we think is likely, being clear to temper our statements as necessary, given the uncertainty.

Also, saying the boots changes run contrary to the devs' stated goals does not depend on what other changes happen. Massive buffs could be coming for melee with the enhancement changes, and the boots changes would still be a nerf to melee. And whether big buffs come or not, nerfing our gear into uselessness is still a bad thing, that shouldn't be done lightly.

Exactly this.

[Cyr]

MadFloyd hinted that more would be coming for melees, did he not? I would reserve judgement until the enhancement trees are released. Then you will get the whole picture.

Ah to be a developer where all you have to do to justify nerfs in the present is to state that sometime in the future there will be buffs. Pay no attention to what we do now, because it will all be better in the future.

[TempestAlphaOmega]

And what exactly is the purpose of holding our tongues until we get the "whole picture"? A nerf to melee is a nerf to melee, and if we don't think melee should be nerfed, then we should argue against it. We don't know what else is coming, so it's pointless to make any assumptions about yet-to-be-announced changes. We should give feedback based on what we know, and what we think is likely, being clear to temper our statements as necessary, given the uncertainty.

Also, saying the boots changes run contrary to the devs' stated goals does not depend on what other changes happen. Massive buffs could be coming for melee with the enhancement changes, and the boots changes would still be a nerf to melee. And whether big buffs come or not, nerfing our gear into uselessness is still a bad thing, that shouldn't be done lightly.

Mostly this.

If things are released in bits to the player base, then we are going to comment on those bits based on how they interact with the game as we know it. Given that many things are changed over more than one update we cannot be expected to know the whole picture. In fact the whole picture in an MMO is an every changing landscape unless the game is static and dying.

Does this put the DEVs in a difficult spot when it comes to trying to decide what to show us and when? Of course it does, but they are not going to put out some huge document for every update that explains their thought process on every change and how they anticipate future content to interact with the change, just isn't going to happen.

Best we can hope for is for all the changes to be in the actual release notes and then the player base will speak up on those that they deem important and hopefully we get a quick dialoge going on those important issues.

[Psiandron]

And what exactly is the purpose of holding our tongues until we get the "whole picture"? A nerf to melee is a nerf to melee, and if we don't think melee should be nerfed, then we should argue against it. We don't know what else is coming, so it's pointless to make any assumptions about yet-to-be-announced changes. We should give feedback based on what we know, and what we think is likely, being clear to temper our statements as necessary, given the uncertainty.

Also, saying the boots changes run contrary to the devs' stated goals does not depend on what other changes happen. Massive buffs could be coming for melee with the enhancement changes, and the boots changes would still be a nerf to melee. And whether big buffs come or not, nerfing our gear into uselessness is still a bad thing, that shouldn't be done lightly.

+1

What's the point of the devs communicating more with us if we don't bother to relay our thoughts on what they're doing?

[Produktion_Malphunktion]

Nice change to lama.. But are there going to be a boost to XP like in U12.. or is it just going to be DEV events that is in the middle of the night.. :P

Yes we are.

[Veriden]

I always knew Shade was responsible for everything bad in this game! Funny enough, he's one of the people complaining about the change to madstone boots.


I really love the earlier releases to Lamannia. It lets players that don't have special Mournlands privileges still feel like they can make a positive impression on the game. It's especially heartening to hear that the dev team has grown so large from the old days, and I hope that means good things for the future.

You just can't make some people happy, I think that is where the largest problem comes. At no point should any of the people in power to make changes to the game consider listening to a single person. So what you can't use kobold torches while mad stoned, make a caster do it. A melee's job is to hit things not plant flowers or light tiki torches. Though I will say, theres no reason to run reaver's and beat on the 900k hp jolly green giant.

That said I think it'd be interesting to put elite horoth and suulomades(vod version with his/her goons), elite lord of lag...err blades, elite abbot, elite reaver's, and epic abishi voltron in a massive open area designed like the reaver's inner sanctum. Turn on friendly fire, add 12 pcs and let all the baddies fight each other and the pcs try to kill all the baddies.. I'm fairly certain it'd be a fun royal rumble that melees would have the most notable role(something lost to them over the past several updates.) That alone should silence a particular hamburger brained barbarian.

[Madryoch]

Perhaps the big picture is actually bigger then the comparative power level of one item?

What is the big picture here?

Well the big picture is that this item is a staple of many current melee builds who are weaker then casters now and the goal was to make it more useful and not less useful originally for those builds.

That seems pretty simple to me. Sidetracks hurt the main goal.

I am curious what do u have in mind when u say ''weaker'' than casters. U guys keep saying casters this casters that ... yes if u put it down to dps u ll never match the dps of a caster when they are mana dumping. Yet I don't think that casters can afford to maintain their dps forever so in hard fights on higher difficulties the casters WILL run out of sp and will even burn sp pots in order to be useful. What do melee people burn ? SF pots?

If u want to say something that i will agree on this is ... ''playing a melee being more interesting than what it is atm" when rather often all u need to do is autoattack in certain raids and go afk.Give them abilities that they have to rotate and lower their single attack dps. Monks are fun due to ki costing abilities for example. Consider why the monk population (don't have actual statistics but it's how it seems to me) is higher than fighters paladins rangers AND barbarians put together? Is it due to the splash of 2 lvls alone ? No. But if u truly expect to ever match the dps of a sorcerer mana dumping then i am sorry but i believe u are being selfish and do not offer decent feedback.

Consider this as well. What is the population of melee people and what is the population of casters. Consider how many min max players play and then tell me why is the caster population so much lower than the melee one? I mean according to what u guys are trying to pass here in the forums melee are gimped and casters are overpowered gods. Why don't u make one and play them as ur toon. I am often trying to find a decent caster when i am going for raids with my tank. Also why do people go with the mentality 1-2 arcane casters max in a raid? why so many melee? If casters were soinsanely overpowered wouldn't u want a 2 melee to be meat shields 2-3 healers and 7 sorcerers in a party ? And if u do agree with the last do u find such casters often ? If not why not?

Now if u are referring to the ability of certain casters to solo epic quests that's a totaly different matter. I realise how much the game designers failed in my opinion at least every time i see that this epic raid/quest was soloed. Yes i have the capability as well to do that. It just isn't right. A raid should require all the people. So i ll return to my original rant of asking the devs for more clear roles in the game and not just caster,healer,dps and only oocasionaly tank. Give abilities to each class that will make em unique and necessary in raids and refrain from giving the ability to every class doing the same things.

[Targonis]

And what exactly is the purpose of holding our tongues until we get the "whole picture"? A nerf to melee is a nerf to melee, and if we don't think melee should be nerfed, then we should argue against it. We don't know what else is coming, so it's pointless to make any assumptions about yet-to-be-announced changes. We should give feedback based on what we know, and what we think is likely, being clear to temper our statements as necessary, given the uncertainty.

Also, saying the boots changes run contrary to the devs' stated goals does not depend on what other changes happen. Massive buffs could be coming for melee with the enhancement changes, and the boots changes would still be a nerf to melee. And whether big buffs come or not, nerfing our gear into uselessness is still a bad thing, that shouldn't be done lightly.

There comes a point at which the devs know how you feel about the change to one item. That does NOT mean there won't be other changes that end up in a net positive for you, so no, it's NOT a nerf to YOU as a whole. There are also some things, like "the WAY an effect is implemented is the reason for changes", and a major reworking of systems(like we are expecting for the expansion update) may neutralize that nerf in the long run as well.

Think about some of the long-running bugs in the game, like when held or paralyzed mobs still move around. Obviously there is something fundamentally wrong with HOW these things work, but without fixing that system, fixing the individual effects may not be realistic...and so, six years later it is still with us. What has been going on with Madstone Boots seems to be a similar type of problem that only really showed up with the challenges, or in a select few other areas. The devs decided that it was a bit enough issue that it had to be changed NOW, though they have ignored the problem casters have had for six years and affects far more people.

So, one item, and you feel it is the start of major nerfs to your character. If you read the different posts, the devs are NOT happy with this, and even if it is intended in the short term, the devs don't like it, meaning a long-term fix WILL come. That's not the same as "we are nerfing ONE item, but won't be doing anything to offset it".

[Cyr]

Why don't u make one and play them as ur toon.

Like most long time players a caster is included in my stable of toons. I actually think my caster is my most powerful toon for it's level, whatever level it is (TR'd toon of course). It can easily do things much faster and easier then any of my melee can do be it in a group or solo. You see I like many players like a variety of different classes to play and hence with less caster classes then melee classes I end up with more melee toons. It is pretty simple actually. Lots of melee classes means lots of melee toons are rolled up. All those min/max players as you put it, well most of them have a caster along with other toons.

As for party make up. Well there are plenty of bad players out there who have difficulty understanding when the game mechanics have changed. That is really besides the point. The point is what parties destroy content quickly and not which parties take forever forming and struggle because poor players are in them.