LET'S TALK: Lamannia

[Produktion_Malphunktion]

Isn't that the server where all the players are Kobolds, and they run through the sewers killing humans?

I wish. I would love that dungeon...

No i'm up with a migraine, oddly staring at a screen is one of the few things that doesn't make me want to put my head in a vice. Now if it starts making noise...it's game over time.

[Correlan]

I wish. I would love that dungeon...

No i'm up with a migraine, oddly staring at a screen is one of the few things that doesn't make me want to put my head in a vice. Now if it starts making noise...it's game over time.

If looking at a monitor at stupid o'clock with a migraine is a relief, i'd visit an optician if I were you.

When is lama being renamed? What sort of incentives are you guys planning on throwing at the guys that come and give your new shinies a good bashing? Hopefully picking up on bugs/exploits that shouldn't really be making it to Live?

[sirgog]

I wish. I would love that dungeon...

No i'm up with a migraine, oddly staring at a screen is one of the few things that doesn't make me want to put my head in a vice. Now if it starts making noise...it's game over time.

Headache tablets. Panadol if America has the same ones Australia does.

Either that, or look up lolcats. Don't read the forums, they'll drive you crazy/crazier.

[redspecter23]

I can only imagine that the thought process for the madstone boots change went something like:

Players can't use things that are *not* spells, but whose actions are coded *as* spells for reasons that have since been lost (hindsight is great, I'm sure if MadFloyd could go back in time there would have been a separate action coded for these actions.

Either:
- Change how these actions are done, most likely a massive undertaking not really feasible with upcoming other changes (expansion etc)
- Change how Madstone works - Simpler change, only affects the one item.

Issues:
- If it just allows spell casting, this item would be too good for casters and would make it even harder for Melees (who the item is actually designed for) to get the item.

So the change was made to drop mental stats by 4, in an attempt to make it unattractive to casters, missing 2 major things off the top of my head. Firstly, while barbs and most fighters don't care about these stats, the other melee classes in fact do (for spell casting and other class abilities, smites, Monk DCs etc). Secondly, -2 spell DC doesn't matter if the spells you cast don't have a save, lol. Silver flame pots, in my opinion was a minor side effect of these changes, the real issue is that the intended penalty had less effect on who it was aimed at (primary casting classes) than those the item is aimed at (melees).

My personal suggestion was to just disallow the use of metamagics while madstoned as I don't think many primary casters would be happy gaining 40/60 hp at the cost of a massive decrease in spell damage.

That's all fine and good and well thought out, but if I were in charge of the "fix" for not being able to drop torches while madstoned, I'd just rename them to Magical Illumination Device and there you have it. Raged characters can't use magical items and the plain old torches are now magical, thus clearing any confusion. The only real coding that needs to be done is renaming the torches... er Magical Illumination Devices I mean. No boots fix, but it becomes more logical why you can't use the various devices while you're under the influence of madstone.

I guess I'm always looking for the simplest solution to a problem. No need to get all fancy with new coding for old items when a simple lore fix that is nothing more than added text will do the trick. The boots aren't mandatory to wear and the drawback is well known to those that use them.

[Riggs]

I have an absolutely NOVEL idea about madstone boots.

................
Take them off and they won't interrupt stuff. Problem solved.

Shade does NOT speak for me. He speaks for himself and to benefit himself only.

Yeah.

Madstone boots is not a class feature.

But then Turbine has admitted to listening to a couple people over others.

no wonder half the game is so messed up.

(nice home location)

[honkuimushi]

No i'm up with a migraine, oddly staring at a screen is one of the few things that doesn't make me want to put my head in a vice. Now if it starts making noise...it's game over time.

I've been there before. A couple of Acetominophen and throwing up once, preferably in reverse order, usually makes things bearable again. With all the stress leading up to a new expansion, I'd be looking at a ton of migranes. Good luck getting through this.

[Neouni]

Depends on how you look at it.

Take madstone boots for example. That began life as a request from Shade who complained, when playing Crystal Cove, that he couldn't use torches & teleporters. Behind the scenes, these two mechanics were really spellcasting. I filed a bug to make madstone boots work in this situation. Did I intend or expect the item to be changed in the way it was? No. Heck, the designer who made the change didn't exactly anticipate the results.

Sometimes a change is intentional on the part of the person who made the change, but not the team/management as a whole. Again, having stuff go out earlier to Lamannia means more stuff will show up there before it's formally reviewed.

And this all happened because of the way clickies and potions changed to be also allowed on other people,
it was a quick hack that just made them all spells instead of actions...

Could have fixed it by redoing that properly too, although it's now intertwined with artificer caster level increase code.

And where are my wandbracers ?

[twiliteslayer02]

Migrane = CAFFINE FIX

plain migrane: two MTN DEW or one espresso... chugged

The dont breathe it hurts because its too loud type: go get a 357 caffine shot at yer local minimart, two in fact.

[Morlen]

All I can think of through this thread...

Raged barbarian:

"I'm angry and I want to smash! Smash! SMASH!!!!!"

*Sees poor Kobolds struggling to see their way.*

"Oh, poor little guys. I'm going to set out all these torches in a very neat and crisp line so that you don't have to struggle in the dark."

[Ungood]

So... /sarcasm ON
what if he say they should stay the way they are?

LOL, ! I believe then, we would see at least one head at Turbine Explode.

[Cordovan]

Please, let's discuss Lamannia and not a specific player or players. Even if a name was referenced to call attention to the process of how a particular request was noticed and escalated, that doesn't give everyone the right to begin discussing whether they like or dislike a particular player on our forums. I've had to clean up the thread, and from this point on, no discussing a particular player, please.

[Aganthor]

Please, let's discuss Lamannia and not a specific player or players. Even if a name was referenced to call attention to the process of how a particular request was noticed and escalated, that doesn't give everyone the right to begin discussing whether they like or dislike a particular player on our forums. I've had to clean up the thread, and from this point on, no discussing a particular player, please.

Was about to post something like this. 6 pages derailing

Let's focus on OP's subject please

[voodoogroves]

Take madstone boots for example. That began life as a request from Shade who complained, when playing Crystal Cove, that he couldn't use torches & teleporters. Behind the scenes, these two mechanics were really spellcasting. I filed a bug to make madstone boots work in this situation. Did I intend or expect the item to be changed in the way it was? No. Heck, the designer who made the change didn't exactly anticipate the results.

While annoying, the inability to use a specific item in a small portion of the content is not something I'd really bother with focusing on. Marginal value. Hell, I found it annoying that not all the spells I wanted to use worked in the event areas. Where's my Wall of Fire? Still, I accept that I can't use every piece of gear and every spell or ability in every situation. I carry different spells to use in challenges or use different characters. Rangers with auto target and auto attack can nearly AFK through the Delera's Event. That's kind of stuff is ok.

They weren't broken; it's ok to not be able to use them 100% of the time.

Also consider that if WE in general are 5%, some of the more vocal portions of the player base are even more to the extreme of gear, etc. Not everyone is soloing all epic quests, raids, challenges, etc. ... not even the 5% here. When we have individual suggestions and ideas - you kinda need to be able to judge where we're coming from because honestly we can be biased based on our own positions.

I think this is where AMDarkwolf was going with his "play more" concept. In our 5% here we've got a fair few capped characters and TRs ... but the things that impact the player base in general aren't what is always expressed by we vocal few.

[voodoogroves]

And to be clear, everyone has great ideas and everyone has bad ideas.

The ability to use them in the cove WOULD be neat. I'd much rather have an actual bug fixed first, or fix items that are truly useless.

Devoting a fix to an item that already is one of the best in the game but has nice drawbacks to make it even better REGARDLESS OF WHO SUGGESTED IT kinda shows a mis-step in the valuation process.



Lamannia aside ... is there any way for you to solicit prioritization feedback from the player base better? I'm not sure if you guys are agile / using sprints / whatever but you've got some process where you take various packages of work and decide what's in or not ... right?

[cdbd3rd]

Wait you mean quick and easy isn't always truly quick and easy?

No, sometimes they pretend to be married for a few years before going back to ... ermm...

Lies all lies

...I see you've met my ex, too?

>_<




...now I gotta go look at the OP again to remind m'self what we were supposed to be discussing.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Lamania (under any name) always has been the best Litmus test for the game imo.

I don't care what name it's given. I have it installed on my other box & account, and go there as much as I can.

Not knowing how Turbine goes from concept to live content, this is the only step we have privy to, and I'm grateful for that. Part of this point is, Why not eliminate Mournlands altogether?

Aside from the people that find and use exploits, I think lamma land should be enhanced for us ALL to utilize and not a select few, like ML.

It's a great way for the players to meet & run with staff. And that alone can be a great marketing tool!

[Phemt81]

All I can think of through this thread...

Raged barbarian:

"I'm angry and I want to smash! Smash! SMASH!!!!!"

*Sees poor Kobolds struggling to see their way.*

"Oh, poor little guys. I'm going to set out all these torches in a very neat and crisp line so that you don't have to struggle in the dark."

Makes perfect sense!!! LMAO

*can you tell i am sarcastic?*

[Razcar]

Well said. This change in lama usage will take a little time to really sink in, but it's a great step I think.

I can only agree with my friend here.

[Artos_Fabril]

All I can think of through this thread...

Raged barbarian:

"I'm angry and I want to smash! Smash! SMASH!!!!!"

*Sees poor Kobolds struggling to see their way.*

"Oh, poor little guys. I'm going to set out all these torches in a very neat and crisp line so that you don't have to struggle in the dark."

Funny, It never occurred to me that ramming a stick halfway into the ground was something you could be too angry to do.

I am not one of those players with best-in-slot gear in every slot on my character, and the first time I went into CC, the madstones were the one pair of striders I had. After I found out the ramming a burning stick into the ground counted as casting a spell, I had to go buy a separate pair of boots just to run torches.

I also play one of those classes that would be severely impacted by the initial change (a monk), which I'm glad is being reconsidered. While I understand, from a lore/common sense perspective why the madstone rage should have a negative impact, from a game mechanics and balance standpoint, there is no good reason that range of classes for which they are viable should be compressed from "melee characters" to "fighters and barbarians"

[Osma77]

Maybe what he wants is to set all of his pet bugs free and see what happens.

Absolute Awesome-sause