Character sheet : Tomes application when levelling

[Flavilandile]

First : I've bug reported it too.

I noticed that on TRing, when you reach the level where the tomes are applied ( 3 for +1 for example ) the tome is applied in the calculation ( for example for skill points if it's an INT Tome ) but it does not appears on your character sheet until you have finished the leveling process.

While not really a nuisance ( as things like skill points receive the tome benefit ) it can be confusing.
I spent several minutes looking for the skill I missed at LVL 3 because of that +1 INT Tome that didn't show on character sheet.

PS: Many thanks to Kookie to have made it possible for us Europeans to participate in Dev Events.

[sephiroth1084]

This may actually be a bug with the tome bonus applying too soon. Pretty sure that when LRing, you get your extra skill point at level 4, and not level 3... Could be wrong.

[bvermeul]

This may actually be a bug with the tome bonus applying too soon. Pretty sure that when LRing, you get your extra skill point at level 4, and not level 3... Could be wrong.

I've LR'ed a couple of times, and every time the tome bonus would count at the level they became active. That is, I'd get an extra skill point when the tome kicked in at lvl 3 and/or 7.

[sephiroth1084]

I've LR'ed a couple of times, and every time the tome bonus would count at the level they became active. That is, I'd get an extra skill point when the tome kicked in at lvl 3 and/or 7.

Wonder if that is intended behavior... A little bonus to sell LRs and GRs? Get those extra skill points!

[DrawingGuy]

That's exactly how it is supposed to work. As you're selecting skills and feats for that level, you're actually not that level yet. If you look at your sheet, while leveling to 7 and applying that extra skill point from the int tome... you're sheet should say you're lvl 6 and not have the point. That's because your "leveling", not leveled. Once you complete the "leveling" process, you should see your level hit 7, and that tome point apply on your sheet.

Now if it happens to be applying LATE - meaning your sheet shows level 7, and you don't get the int point until the process of leveling for 8... or vice versa of being level 5 leveling to 6... THAT is a problem.

[sephiroth1084]

Well, you can't read the tome until you are level 3, 7, 11, etc...and don't get the bonus skill points until the next level (4, 8, 12...), it's not necessarily that intuitive.

[TheDearLeader]

I don't know why the Arbitrary ML on tomes is there, anyway.

The difference between a TR @ level 1 with no tome, and a +4 Con Tome, is 4 HP. ....woo? Most TRs will have twink gear that far surpasses that.
Same for the other stats, of course. Most of the differences made by tomes only come into play when you actually have some levels to back them up with.

Int is the exception, sure, since you could theoretically gain more skill points. (If you had a +4 Tome, then LRed/TRed). Still...is more skills worth all the extra coding?

[Cyr]

Int is the exception, sure, since you could theoretically gain more skill points. (If you had a +4 Tome, then LRed/TRed). Still...is more skills worth all the extra coding?

Considering how uber skills are in DDO I agree. It seems silly to have MLs on tomes in the first place.

[Teharahma]

Pretty sure the LR/GR is not working as intented, and that the state of the TR is what will be applied once it goes live.
They will probably fix the LR/GR hearts KoKoon™

[Flavilandile]

That's exactly how it is supposed to work. As you're selecting skills and feats for that level, you're actually not that level yet. If you look at your sheet, while leveling to 7 and applying that extra skill point from the int tome... you're sheet should say you're lvl 6 and not have the point. That's because your "leveling", not leveled. Once you complete the "leveling" process, you should see your level hit 7, and that tome point apply on your sheet.

Now if it happens to be applying LATE - meaning your sheet shows level 7, and you don't get the int point until the process of leveling for 8... or vice versa of being level 5 leveling to 6... THAT is a problem.

Well, you can't read the tome until you are level 3, 7, 11, etc...and don't get the bonus skill points until the next level (4, 8, 12...), it's not necessarily that intuitive.

Actually that's not the case.

When you level to 3, 7 or 11 ( so you are still LVL 2, 6 or 10 ) you earn the skill points from the Tome during the levelling process ( as stated you are not of the required level yet ), the tome does not display before the end of the levelling process. So a LVL 2 character leveling to 3 will have his sheet display his INT without the tome until he has finished levelling, but he will have the skill point from the +1 INT tome to spend during the levelling. You get the Skill point at the same level as the tome is applied, not one level after. ( and if you do it while looking closely, you'll see that you get the skill point before the tome is applied to the stat. )

[Wraith_Sarevok]

Really... what is 1 or 2 skill points in the scheme of things?

[Kinerd]

I don't know why the Arbitrary ML on tomes is there, anyway.

The difference between a TR @ level 1 with no tome, and a +4 Con Tome, is 4 HP. ....woo? Most TRs will have twink gear that far surpasses that.
Same for the other stats, of course. Most of the differences made by tomes only come into play when you actually have some levels to back them up with.

Int is the exception, sure, since you could theoretically gain more skill points. (If you had a +4 Tome, then LRed/TRed). Still...is more skills worth all the extra coding?

The big one I can think of is Dex tomes, which every melee and their brother use for meeting TWF pre-reqs. If +4 Dex tomes are ML 15, you cannot start at 13 Dex and get both ITWF and GTWF without LRing unless you are a fighter. More importantly than getting it at all, which requires a fairly extreme case, you can get GTWF much earlier (level 12 instead of level 15 or 18) with no ML big tomes.

Presumably the same is true for ranged feats, but who cares about ranged.

[Flavilandile]

Really... what is 1 or 2 skill points in the scheme of things?

It's more than skill points it can open feats a level before it should be possible as stated just above.

And 1 skill point in Sneak, Disarm, Haggle, Concentration, ... can be important to some builds.
( and it can be 1 skill point at 3, 1 skill point at 7, 1 skill point at 11, ... if you ate a +1 and +2 and a +3 INT Tome ... so it can be +3, even +4 skill points )