Quick and dirty Madstone boots 'fix'

[Auran82]

Seeing that they want to change madstone rage to allow casting/clickies/torches/whatever else uses the same code as spell casting, how about a simple quick and dirty fix.

Leave the typing on the bonus the same.
Leave the buff itself the same.
Allow spellcasting while madstone rage is in effect.

However.

Disallow the use of any metamagic feat while under the effects of madstone rage.

[budalic]

Seeing that they want to change madstone rage to allow casting/clickies/torches/whatever else uses the same code as spell casting, how about a simple quick and dirty fix.

Leave the typing on the bonus the same.
Leave the buff itself the same.
Allow spellcasting while madstone rage is in effect.

However.

Disallow the use of any metamagic feat while under the effects of madstone rage.

That would screw self-healing pallies and rangers (who usually use maximise spell)

EDIT: Would also disable quicken for self-buffs of those toons.

[sirgog]

That idea is really good, IMO.

It's a DPS item with a drawback - something you use when you have someone else watching your HP bar. With that change it would be situational but powerful on Paladins and Rangers.

[Munkenmo]

seems an incredibly usefull way to prevent them becoming the go to item for dot tanking too.

/signed.

also to saying it screws over ranger's / pallies, it leaves them better off than they are now as atm they can't cast at all when madstoned, It in no way makes the item worse than as they are currently.

[Auran82]

That would screw self-healing pallies and rangers (who usually use maximise spell)

EDIT: Would also disable quicken for self-buffs of those toons.

Does it do any less now?

[oradafu]

Although I like the OPs suggestion, I think I might have a better one, although I'm not completely sure. Since Paladins and Ranger's spells are mostly buff spells (and I can't think of any offensive spells that they have), why not make a steep penalty that affects those spells? Aren't the buff spells just a Concentration check, while most (all maybe?) offensive spells need a DC check? Wouldn't a -10 or -15 to Spell DCs be enough to hamper the abuse of a caster with Madstone Boots but still allow Paladins, Rangers and even melee-based Bards to use the boots? I'm sure someone will point out something that I'm missing or overlooking.

[Munkenmo]

Although I like the OPs suggestion, I think I might have a better one, although I'm not completely sure. Since Paladins and Ranger's spells are mostly buff spells (and I can't think of any offensive spells that they have), why not make a steep penalty that affects those spells? Aren't the buff spells just a Concentration check, while most (all maybe?) offensive spells need a DC check? Wouldn't a -10 or -15 to Spell DCs be enough to hamper the abuse of a caster with Madstone Boots but still allow Paladins, Rangers and even melee-based Bards to use the boots? I'm sure someone will point out something that I'm missing or overlooking.

Eladers electric surge
Niac's biting cold
Divine punishment

What do these three spells have in common (hint, it's to do with dc's)

[oradafu]

Eladers electric surge
Niac's biting cold
Divine punishment

What do these three spells have in common (hint, it's to do with dc's)

Brainfart. Like I said, I might have missed something.

[Xyfiel]

Already went over the pros and cons of that Friday, didn't seem best option so didn't post it.
Extended zeal/df
Past Life Paladin df
Meta Healing
Extended bard/battlecaster buffs
And the worst part, it won't do anything to casting implosion, wail, hold mass, etc..

[Munkenmo]

Already went over the pros and cons of that Friday, didn't seem best option so didn't post it.
Extended zeal/df
Past Life Paladin df
Meta Healing
Extended bard/battlecaster buffs
And the worst part, it won't do anything to casting implosion, wail, hold mass, etc..

pallies can't cast at all when mastoned currently so the ability to cast zeal, paladin past life, or heal with sp when madstoned compared to now is a bonus.

Casters can use wail 4 times in the 2 mins they're madstoned, without quicken, heighten, or any other metamagic. Whilst i play a caster without quicken, i promise you 90% of the people i run with call me gimp for it, and would not wear the boots for that meta loss alone. combine it with losing heighten on finger / web / circle is a loss though.

2 mins of no metamagics at all actually seems like a really good idea. The more i think about it the more I'm liking it.

[nivarch]

Also I'm not sure but it seems hard to implement. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think preventing use of metamagic is not something already in game.

Something preventing casting spells of level 4 and higher seems to be more balanced imo. Would prevent dot casting, while not ampering paladin and rangers at all.
The questions being:

• would it prevent use of scrolls/wands?
• would it prevent use of quest items?

[oradafu]

I don't currently have a Paladin or a Ranger right now, so maybe this solution won't work. When in public, there are several spells that can't be used. It even affects the spell-like abilities. If this code doesn't affect Zeal and some of the other buff spells that Rangers and Paladins use, why not implement the "You may not perform this action while in a public area"? I know Holy Sword would be affected, but a Paladin should have cast that long before he got into a fight (and swapped it out for another spell).

Again, maybe I'm missing something that will affect Rangers and Paladins (or even other melees), so this might not be the right solution.

[Tsuarok]

I really prefer the idea of disabling all spells cast at level 5 and above.

Totally screws the casters.

Totally frees the rangers and pallies.

Only sort of screws my bard

Changes to sp costs, metamagic feats, and caster levels all damage the casting melees too much.

[Deamus]

Seeing that they want to change madstone rage to allow casting/clickies/torches/whatever else uses the same code as spell casting, how about a simple quick and dirty fix.

Leave the typing on the bonus the same.
Leave the buff itself the same.
Allow spellcasting while madstone rage is in effect.

However.

Disallow the use of any metamagic feat while under the effects of madstone rage.

This sounds perfect . And if you are worried still about Wail and Implosion users , place a -2 DC to blue bars only . Don't make the -2 DC affect monks (i cant stress this enough) or affect combat tactics feats .

However I still prefer the no stackable effect of +4 str +6 con just make it a different type like psionic as it was suggested before .

About it screws palies and rangers ..... they didnt cast anything when madstoned already so its a buf for them already !

Overall very nice idea!

[Deamus]

Also I'm not sure but it seems hard to implement. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think preventing use of metamagic is not something already in game.

Something preventing casting spells of level 4 and higher seems to be more balanced imo. Would prevent dot casting, while not ampering paladin and rangers at all.
The questions being:

• would it prevent use of scrolls/wands?
• would it prevent use of quest items?

So you are asking to buf only paladins and rangers while nerfing all the rest .... No not signed it should affect all spells.

[Tsuarok]

So you are asking to buf only paladins and rangers while nerfing all the rest .... No not signed it should affect all spells.

Yes, wouldn't want to buff paladins and rangers. They are so OP.

[FastTaco]

Disable Heighten/Quicken, and then put -50% to all elemental damage... then say nevermind and leave the boots alone.

[grodon9999]

That would screw self-healing pallies and rangers (who usually use maximise spell)

EDIT: Would also disable quicken for self-buffs of those toons.

WHo cares, as it is now they can't heal when madstoned. This is better.

Or . . . leave the boots alone as they are.