Questions about Reporting Bugs

[GoldyGopher]

Maj,

Can we have a discussion on Bug Reporting?

I used to have a long laundry list of Bugs that I tested with each update to Risia/Lamannia that I would take the time and report each of them one at a time with each update/patch that was shown. The problem was nothing was ever done about these bugs as far as I could tell. Some of the ones from Alpha/Beta are actually still in game. I am not sure whether to laugh or cry when someone falls through a bridge for example. Or the fact you can still freak out the UI on the Auction House to give you the wrong "tool tip" when you mouse over items.
In the end my list of known bugs became pretty long and very time consuming to enter and the lack of feedback was very um disappointing.

Things like Stuck Spots, disjointed ladders, mandatory optional, miswritten dialogue, wrong terminology and the like are still bugs, but reporting that some of our end rewards are in Gold rather than Plat, well they need to be reported and fixed seems like a waste if you just don’t have people to fix.

Floating Characters (Random locations in Say Tangleroot 2 for the Prisoners) are a little tough to report, what should we include?

Would it be possible to get a Wiki page rather than the forums? While not a big fan of wikis in general it is really what they are for.

Can we have a discussion on Exploits and how they are different than Bugs and what we need to do to inform Turbine on how Exploits are being used?

[Produktion_Malphunktion]

I used to have a long laundry list of Bugs that I tested with each update to Risia/Lamannia that I would take the time and report each of them one at a time with each update/patch that was shown. The problem was nothing was ever done about these bugs as far as I could tell. Some of the ones from Alpha/Beta are actually still in game. I am not sure whether to laugh or cry when someone falls through a bridge for example. Or the fact you can still freak out the UI on the Auction House to give you the wrong "tool tip" when you mouse over items.
In the end my list of known bugs became pretty long and very time consuming to enter and the lack of feedback was very um disappointing.

No bug reported is useless. Remember that behind the scenes there is a process that takes place for every bug. We risk assess them, give them a priority, give them a projected release date, exc. Not every bug is equal. Most of what you have described fall into what I would call 'average'. Not game breaking, but annoying.
Sadly you cannot expect us to update on bug status. It would be a full time job to update on issues at that level. Rule number one of a tester- do not become attached or emotionally involved in a bug.

Things like Stuck Spots, disjointed ladders, mandatory optional, miswritten dialogue, wrong terminology and the like are still bugs, but reporting that some of our end rewards are in Gold rather than Plat, well they need to be reported and fixed seems like a waste if you just don’t have people to fix.

We fix a ton of those bugs every release. Keep reporting them if you see them.

Floating Characters (Random locations in Say Tangleroot 2 for the Prisoners) are a little tough to report, what should we include?

Location and what you were doing. Loc gives z-axis too.

Would it be possible to get a Wiki page rather than the forums? While not a big fan of wikis in general it is really what they are for.

no.

Can we have a discussion on Exploits and how they are different than Bugs and what we need to do to inform Turbine on how Exploits are being used?

As per usual, you can talk all you want about exploits on Lamannia, but not on live.
On live exploits, just PM your favorite dev, Qa or OCR folk or use the bug tool.

Exploit: taking advantage of a bug or design flaw and using it in a way the developers did not intend. This may include duping, perch spots, using lag , logging, teleporting, logging or locomotion to your advantage among other things.
Bugs well, bug you.

[Vengeance777]

Exploit: taking advantage of a bug or design flaw and using it in a way the developers did not intend. This may include duping, perch spots...

Can you clarify perch spots? I tend to leap on rocks, objects, overhangs, and anything else I can jump to on my casters/ranged attackers when I aoe/shoot mobs. For example in Epic Wizking I often hop up on the blocks in the opening room to aoe gnolls then duck behind another block or shield block to keep from being shot by the archers and casters. Am I not supposed to do this? The mobs are still trying to attack me they just can't hit me, though the casters seem to be smart enough to aoe me back lol.

I see Kobold range/casters and Razor Arm in Chrono Raid perch on geometry and fire at the group and enemy casters/ranger hide behind melees. I assume that's legal for players as well?

Way I understand perching is we're allowed to use geometry of the level and/or have melees block a doorway, to attack from so long as it isn't done in a way that does not bypass a mobs responsiveness. Example I can't perch on an object, or cast a spell through a unpassable wall that would allow me to kill a mob without the mob ever becoming active. But my party members are allowed to block a doorway while I firewall a room from safety and I am allowed to jump up on a mushroom the wolf can't reach and firewall him. Am I understanding it correctly?

I assume if the devs put a rock or mushroom at a level I can reach by jumping, winging, or climbing similar objects they put it there for us to use, If I have to do something weird to reach the object like run up a wall or jump up the side of a sloped object that isn't shaped or textured to look climbable but has a weird shaped detection box that allows it they didn't intend it to be used. BTW what should we report objects like that as when we file bug reports?

[Ovrad]

As per usual, you can talk all you want about exploits on Lamannia, but not on live.
On live exploits, just PM your favorite dev, Qa or OCR folk or use the bug tool.

DON’T post exploit details. If you find something in game that you think could be an exploit, file a bug report or ask by sending a PM to the QA/Community team.

Wait, I'm a little confused, are we allowed to talk about exploits on Lamannia or not?

[Untitled]

Wait, I'm a little confused, are we allowed to talk about exploits on Lamannia or not?

He was stating that on Lamania (In Game), in chat, you can discuss exploits to your hearts content. However, on the forums, do not post details or discuss, simply file a bug report.. Atleast, this is what I gathered from that.

[Produktion_Malphunktion]

Right, what he said.

[Shade]

Would it be possible to get a Wiki page rather than the forums? While not a big fan of wikis in general it is really what they are for.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Game_bugs

Add yours there.

Or tag a appropriate page with {{bug}} to have it added automatically.

Game history has proven the bug report tool is rather useless for DDO. Bugs reported a million times remain unknown to the devs. Wish they would move on.

[Arctigis]

No bug reported is useless. Remember that behind the scenes there is a process that takes place for every bug. We risk assess them, give them a priority, give them a projected release date, exc. Not every bug is equal. Most of what you have described fall into what I would call 'average'. Not game breaking, but annoying.
Sadly you cannot expect us to update on bug status. It would be a full time job to update on issues at that level. Rule number one of a tester- do not become attached or emotionally involved in a bug.

Could you not at least publish a list of accepted bugs? (e.g. bugs that you've triaged and confirmed are actually
software defects). It's tiresome in the extreme to repeatedly report the same bugs update after update, patch
after patch without knowing whether it's accepted or not. All it really needs is an ID and a concise synopsis.
If you could then re-report a bug (associate user account with bug report) by selecting it from a list then you'd get
more precise statistics on how many users are reporting the same problem. This is useful data in determining fix
priority which can be independent of severity. I'd hope this happens anyway but it would be helpful if it was more
visible. Annoying bug is annoying even if it does no permanent harm.

I spent a lot of time when the Sorcerer elemental savant PRE was previewed; meticulously testing affects
of the increase to maximum caster level and caster level. As a result I filed lots of bugs against spells. AFAICT,
not one single thing has changed - I don't even know if you consider these bugs or WAI. The result is that I don't
feel like this is a useful way for me to spend my time.

...Keep reporting them if you see them.

Why?

If I keep reporting a bug and it remains in the same state, what's the incentive for me to do so?

[Produktion_Malphunktion]

That is partly what will get weeded out here.

Short answer: no i will not publish a list of bugs. Dirty Laundry and all that. No company will ever do that.