Is there more to Carnifex???

[jacobthered]

So my lvl 7 babrbarian inherited Carnifex from an alt toon. Reading the forum posts, I have stuck with Carnifex since the beginning. My issue is I see several blows doing 90-110 damage but its been that way since lvl 4/5. It's been a while, but I seem to remember my kensai doing more damage.

On the practice dummy, I max out around 40 damage while raged and damage boosted.

Maybe Carnifex's advantage is getting more of the 90-110 blows vs other weps. That may be true, but my barbarian doesn't want consistency, he wants to crush his enemies with one swing.

Any thoughts will be appreciated.

[thwart]

So my lvl 7 babrbarian inherited Carnifex from an alt toon. Reading the forum posts, I have stuck with Carnifex since the beginning. My issue is I see several blows doing 90-110 damage but its been that way since lvl 4/5. It's been a while, but I seem to remember my kensai doing more damage.

On the practice dummy, I max out around 40 damage while raged and damage boosted.

Maybe Carnifex's advantage is getting more of the 90-110 blows vs other weps. That may be true, but my barbarian doesn't want consistency, he wants to crush his enemies with one swing.

Any thoughts will be appreciated.

Carnifex is keen ... therefore it crits more often than other great axes. That probably explains the numbers that you are seeing. Consistent damage on normal hits but the high damage on crits.

[Qzipoun]

Carnifex is keen ... therefore it crits more often than other great axes. That probably explains the numbers that you are seeing. Consistent damage on normal hits but the high damage on crits.

Carnifex is 'double-keen'. Not only does it have the keen property (which acts like improve crit) but it's base crit range (without keen/improved crit) is higher.

So yes, you are critting a lot more on a Carnifex then a random loot gen g.axe

[mobrien316]

Carnifex is 'double-keen'.

I think this is what throws people with regards to Carnifex.

A keen greataxe (such as the Hellfire greataxe) lists "keen" as one of its enhancements, which increases its threat range from 20 to 19-20.

Carnifex also lists keen as one of its enhancements (and it reads exactly the same as the "Keen" descriptor on the Hellfire greataxe), but it also lists the threat range as 17-20.

On a regular keen greataxe, you can expect critical hits approximately 10% of the time (all other things being equal.) On Carnifex, you can expect them about 20% of the time.

All in all, Carnifex is a very good two-handed weapon from level four all the way up until level 12 or 13 (and sometimes even a bit higher.)

[dkyle]

The Carnifex has a 17-20 crit range, and a x3 crit multiplier. No other two-hander crits anywhere near as consistently, with as much damage per crit, at that level.

You can't crit the dummy, so you won't see the big numbers there. But 40 at level 7 sounds reasonable, I guess. Maybe a bit low. You have Power Attack, right?

The biggest rival for Carnifex near that level would be things like +1 Holy of PG with Icy Burst kit on them. All that extra damage can mean more one-hit-kills for even non-crit hits.

[shadowspeaker]

The Carnifex has a 17-20 crit range, and a x3 crit multiplier. No other two-hander crits anywhere near as consistently, with as much damage per crit, at that level.

You can't crit the dummy, so you won't see the big numbers there. But 40 at level 7 sounds reasonable, I guess. Maybe a bit low. You have Power Attack, right?

The biggest rival for Carnifex near that level would be things like +1 Holy of PG with Icy Burst kit on them. All that extra damage can mean more one-hit-kills for even non-crit hits.

The Training Dummy has heavy fortification so you do not do extra damage on the dummy with your phsyical attacks. If you use Chime fo Blasting or use the feat improved sunder you can reduce the fortification and score crits. IIRC rogues can also reduce the fortification of a target.

[Dartwick]

A paly who always grouped with an arty could make good use of it at 20.

[jacobthered]

Thanks folks. Yes, I have barb power attack too (forgot that one). I was afraid I would hear, "at lvl 7, you should being 40+X damage." According to dkyle, what I'm seeing is reasonable which is what I hoped for my barb. Those potential extra points of damage will probably come when I properly equip him.

Thanks to all for the responses. Just wanted to be sure I wasn't the butt of a huge joke about Carnifex being one of the best weps thru lvl 10 or so.

[Wraith_Sarevok]

It is the best THF weapon through lvl 4-9. Nothing else even comes close.

After that, the Sword of Shadows is completely superior all the way through lvl 10-19.

At lvl 12, use greensteel as a DR breaker. Use greensteel as a skeleton and undead basher. Use greensteel as your thrower. But the Sword of Shadows remains your main weapon until 20.

Anyone who says otherwise is completely wrong.

[HungarianRhapsody]

It is the best THF weapon through lvl 4-9. Nothing else even comes close.

After that, the Sword of Shadows is completely superior all the way through lvl 10-19.

At lvl 12, use greensteel as a DR breaker. Use greensteel as a skeleton and undead basher. Use greensteel as your thrower. But the Sword of Shadows remains your main weapon until 20.

Anyone who says otherwise is completely wrong.

Two important issues arise that would cause you to not use your Sword of Shadow even if you are running on a THF melee character.

1) If you don't have one. This is the same reason why a Wizard/Sorc/FvS/Cleric/Artificer would not wear a Torc.

2) If you are fighting something that has 100% fortification. Against enemies with 100% fortification, you're better off with something that adds damage as a straight number instead of something that multiplies your damage on a critical hit.

[Wraith_Sarevok]

Two important issues arise that would cause you to not use your Sword of Shadow even if you are running on a THF melee character.

1) If you don't have one. This is the same reason why a Wizard/Sorc/FvS/Cleric/Artificer would not wear a Torc.

2) If you are fighting something that has 100% fortification. Against enemies with 100% fortification, you're better off with something that adds damage as a straight number instead of something that multiplies your damage on a critical hit.

Well yeah if you don't have one, stick to your greensteel Greataxe or Falchion of course. Kind of goes without saying how powerful those items are. If you don't have those, then just grab a nice +5 Greataxe or stick with Carnifex. Just make sure you can get your attack bonus high enough to hit things.

And yeah, already said to use greensteel against skeletons and other undead. Grab a Blasting Chime from the Cannith challenges and use it on constructs. Elementals are all but immune to crits, so use greensteel against them. Or just use whatever weapon you have on you until you can get to greensteel. It can't really be helped if it's your first toon.

As calculated in other threads, it depends on your strength. Low strength toons are benefited more by weapons with holy/bleed and a high to hit than a good crit profile. Not every low level melee is a fighter or barb. Sometimes they are clerics who just have enough strength to make it to level 11 when they get blade barrier.

If you're not running a melee toon with MAX Strength, you're doing it wrong. Sorry, but everyone I know runs their melee toons with max Strength. DPS is everything in this game and virtually everything is vulnerable to critical hits. Constructs are now vulnerable to critical hits. Only undead and elementals are still near-immune and there aren't a whole lot of dangerous ones. And yeah, Sword of Shadow is a +5 item so where is the to-hit problem?

You're a cleric. Why are you meleeing? You should be grouping with other people and casting heals. Use your team members to complete quests. This is an MMO after all. Even on my Bard-in-progress I cave in and join groups mostly because it's too difficult to solo at that stage.

[Dartwick]

double

[dkyle]

You're a cleric. Why are you meleeing? You should be grouping with other people and casting heals. Use your team members to complete quests. This is an MMO after all. Even on my Bard-in-progress I cave in and join groups mostly because it's too difficult to solo at that stage.

Truly terrible advice. In the early game, I keep a greataxe in my Wizard's hands most of the time. With a 12 base STR.

A healbot is a piker, outside of a few specific boss fights in high level Raids. Pick up a weapon and go to town, at least until you get the viable Divine casting stuff.

[Freeman]

You're a cleric. Why are you meleeing? You should be grouping with other people and casting heals. Use your team members to complete quests. This is an MMO after all. Even on my Bard-in-progress I cave in and join groups mostly because it's too difficult to solo at that stage.

He's probably meleeing because he got tired of running with barbarians that only expected him to heal and nothing else. Plus, it takes forever to finish a quest with barbarians like that, since they inexplicably stop and rub toilet paper over every single hole in the ground they see.

[Teharahma]

You're a cleric. Why are you meleeing? You should be grouping with other people and casting heals. Use your team members to complete quests. This is an MMO after all. Even on my Bard-in-progress I cave in and join groups mostly because it's too difficult to solo at that stage.

-1

Divines can DPS and heal alongside oneanother easily.

[Rodasch]

You're a cleric. Why are you meleeing? You should be grouping with other people and casting heals. Use your team members to complete quests. This is an MMO after all. Even on my Bard-in-progress I cave in and join groups mostly because it's too difficult to solo at that stage.

You lost any credibility you had with this last paragraph.

[SirValentine]

You're a cleric. Why are you meleeing? You should be grouping with other people and casting heals. Use your team members to complete quests. This is an MMO after all. Even on my Bard-in-progress I cave in and join groups mostly because it's too difficult to solo at that stage.

Really? Another Cleric-hater who wants us to shut up, hjeal, and get to the back of the bus?

It's NOT too difficult for a Cleric to solo almost everything in the game, from Korthos up to Elite Amrath and Epic quests.

I group with others on my divine to get faster completions, but even then, I'm killing stuff, with either melee or spells, as appropriate.

[Wraith_Sarevok]

Really? Another Cleric-hater who wants us to shut up, hjeal, and get to the back of the bus?

It's NOT too difficult for a Cleric to solo almost everything in the game, from Korthos up to Elite Amrath and Epic quests.

I group with others on my divine to get faster completions, but even then, I'm killing stuff, with either melee or spells, as appropriate.

This one I feel I need to clarify here since you're still getting the wrong idea.

I am not now nor have I ever been a cleric-hater. I wasn't trying to say any such thing and have no idea where you keep coming up with it. On the contrary: Clerics make great energizer batteries for my barbarian and I love it when they get behind me!

When you're at the low levels and you're starting your first healer class, you really DO need to group up with others and start learning how to heal them. Because I guarantee you that if you don't learn how to heal at this stage of the game and you start wandering off from the group and acting like a battle-cleric or battle-FvS in mid level quests, you'll quickly find yourself on server blacklists. They will expect you to heal them successfully in both quests and raids, and it's essential that you get that skill down immediately.

Yes, if you're a TR or an alt or a prodigy that can solo at that level, by all means go ahead. Nobody's stopping you.

But my advice was aimed towards F2P newbies coming from where I started. That means there were no shipbuffs, no guild runs, no metaknowledge, no Heroism pots, no Haste pots, no Rage pots, no twink gear, no alts, and no rich friends. It was just you and your starter gear with a couple thousand plat and maybe a gaming buddy or two. And I guarantee you, it's not anywhere near as easy as you blow it up to be.

A lot of high-level players have forgotten their origins and are totally spoiled by the buffs and gear they have today. They don't seem to get that all that metaknowledge and all those luxuries didn't exist at one point.