Deadly Weapon change

[FooWonk]

Deadly Weapons has been temporarily changed to address balance and other issues. The spell now adds +1d8 force damage to a target's main hand weapon. This spell will undergo further changes in the future. Additionally, scrolls of Deadly Weapons have been added to the treasure tables, and now have a chance of appearing in chests like other scrolls in the game.

Agreed, deadly weapons on eSoS in its current state is ridiculous. On green steel and epic weapons, on average it added 10 damage per swing.

Elemental weapons v. proposed deadly weapons change:
° 3.5 element (x) damage per swing v. 4.5 force damage per swing
° 15 SP v. 35 SP
° 6 minute duration v. 1 minute / casting level
° 2nd level infusion v. 6th level infusion

Because deadly weapons' benefits v. elemental weapons are so marginal, it won't be worth preparing until 3rd or 4th slot is available. All artificer will prepare blade barrier, tactical detonation & maybe reconstruct before deadly weapons.

Suggestions:
A. Adds a static +2d6 force damage: Adds on average 7 damage per swing.

B. Adds to force burst & armor-piercing: Adds on average 5 damage per swing against 0 fortification opponents with an additional boost against fortified opponents.

[DrawingGuy]

I do agree that Deadly Weapons as it stands is OP. It's fun having that thrown on melee DPSers actually giving casters a run for their money in end game content.

Personally I think a 1d8 force is underpowered for a lvl 6 spell... and marginalized with elemental weapons already being there. I personally would like to see something like 10% fort bypass (that stacks with rogue opportunist).

[djl]

Ugh. Another illogical nerf that shows the Devs are out-of-touch with the game.

1d8 force vs 1d6 elemental is hardly anything, especially considering the level difference of these two spells. I am sure many Artificers will now think twice about carrying Deadly Weapons, and many party leaders will think twice about picking up Artificers if they have a bard or pure DPS class available. I agree that 2d12 force would be far more balanced, or even make it something completely unique like "raises your crit multiplier by one" or something like that.


Also, here's the translation of what that release note really says: "We spent a couple hours trying to decide on a way to better balance this spell and then decided it was more fun to go drinking, so because it's easy we've chosen to nerf it to the point of worthlessness. We may get around to actually rebalancing it, but if that ever occurs it will likely be sometime next year. Happy gaming!"

[Gizeh]

Maybe it's not the deadly weapons spell that needs to be nerfed, but rather the eSOS - no other melee weapon in the game deals that amount of base damage afaik.

[Shade]

A spell on a mediocre class that only buffs the worst classes is in no way overpowered.

For ESoS, It added similar dmg to bard songs, without the to hit bonus.
For everyone else, it added very little dmg in comparison. But considering the gap in performance, the percentage difference wasnt much.

Without deadlies I could hit for 140, with it, 160.. Gamebreaking in a game where we fight 630,000 hp bosses? Hardly.

Bards songs need the nerf too?

No.

Stupid unwarranted nerf is unwarranted.

You do a quick temp fix on things like i dunno, GAME BREAKING EXPLOITs.

Things like this you actaully think through, discuss and adjust acordingly.. In like, I dunno, maybe that 150+ reply thread were we discussed this in depth and Eladrin decided on a reasonable nerf for the spell:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=350514&page=4

Or did Eladrin get fired and all logic went out the window for U13? What is this madness.

You don't go OMG QUICK DO A DUMB NERF to spells that might let a grp take along a artificer to possibly, maybe, perhaps get a 5% faster quest completions.

More idiotic nerfs to melees.

Oh well: Artificers, The next hundred, or thousand times I decline you from my grps/raids for no longer being a worthwhile class in my mind: Blame Turbine.

[djl]

Welcome to Dungeons & Casters.

That's what this game is to become in the next update.

[Shade]

Maybe it's not the deadly weapons spell that needs to be nerfed, but rather the eSOS - no other melee weapon in the game deals that amount of base damage afaik.

Yet your min lvl8 lit2 khopesh results in DPS almost identical.

And a sorcerer can put out DPS four times that, while self healing, buffing and cc'ing epic content..

ESoS is not overpowered, nor is a deadlies boosted esos.

It's the bare minimum THF needed to remain competitive in tough epic content (the little that is left).

[djl]

Yet your min lvl8 lit2 khopesh results in DPS almost identical.

And a sorcerer can put out DPS four times that, while self healing, buffing and cc'ing epic content..

ESoS is not overpowered, nor is a deadlies boosted esos.

It's the bare minimum THF needed to remain competitive in tough epic content (the little that is left).

ESoS is not the bare minimum-- it's the best THF has. Well, maybe for an elitist yeah, but THF are still able contribute relevant DPS with lesser weapons. Eantique is the bare minimum for THF.

[Destroyer_Omega]

Uh, i think they just didn't know what to do with it before the weapon die tweaking comes live, so they put force damage on it temporarily. However, out of fear of it being overpowered, they made it... well...

If you're making it a static +damage spell (um, infusion :P ) until stuff gets fixed, please, make the damage high enough for people to consider carrying it.

[Wraith_Sarevok]

ESoS is not the bare minimum-- it's the best THF has. Well, maybe for an elitist yeah, but THF are still able contribute relevant DPS with lesser weapons. Eantique is the bare minimum for THF.

Dude, without the ESoS I get outkilled by ungeared casters in... heck any epic. Epic Red Fens, Epic Devil Assault, Epic Phialran, Epic Deneith... you name it. Even with the ESoS I still equal or get outkilled by geared casters in quests and raids. There's absolutely nothing I can do to keep up with their 1-shot mob spells.

Melee and ranged might as well sit in the corner and let the caster do all the work.

[Shade]

ESoS is not the bare minimum-- it's the best THF has. Well, maybe for an elitist yeah, but THF are still able contribute relevant DPS with lesser weapons. Eantique is the bare minimum for THF.

maybe read the whole sentence. "for tough epic content" - theres not much of it, but there is some:

For ELoB, I wouldnt go in with any less personally. 630,000 hp is an insane amount and someone has to cut it down.

[patang01]

Agreed, deadly weapons on eSoS in its current state is ridiculous. On green steel and epic weapons, on average it added 10 damage per swing.

Elemental weapons v. proposed deadly weapons change:
° 3.5 element (x) damage per swing v. 4.5 force damage per swing
° 15 SP v. 35 SP
° 6 minute duration v. 1 minute / casting level
° 2nd level infusion v. 6th level infusion

Because deadly weapons' benefits v. elemental weapons are so marginal, it won't be worth preparing until 3rd or 4th slot is available. All artificer will prepare blade barrier, tactical detonation & maybe reconstruct before deadly weapons.

Suggestions:
A. Adds a static +2d6 force damage: Adds on average 7 damage per swing.

B. Adds to force burst & armor-piercing: Adds on average 5 damage per swing against 0 fortification opponents with an additional boost against fortified opponents.

And here I TR'd my Arti to get it and now it's changed to something that is just marginally better than elemental weapons. Pointless.

[djl]

And here I TR'd my Arti to get it and now it's changed to something that is just marginally better than elemental weapons. Pointless.

To compensate for this horrid nerf, I say the devs should buff Positive Energy Infusion to give the target a 20% boost instead of a 10% boost. At least that would give some reason to still take Artys into epic raids.

[Dark-Star]

How are you reading that a temporary change is a permanent nerf?

Fact: The spell is not finished. It is broken for a number of weapons.

Fact: It was erroneously added to the spell list of only Artificers that leveled up after U12.

Fact: Due to this, there was (is) discrimination against Artificers without this spell, the very ones that paid Turbine money to get the class before it was available via favor.

What they have done INSTEAD of removing the spell for everyone, is to make a place holder and allow all Artificers access to it.

I will restrain my cries of nerf until I see what the finished spell looks like.

Thank you for putting something in the game in the mean time Turbine, instead of taking the easy way out and taking it away from those who had it.

[BlackSteel]

How are you reading that a temporary change is a permanent nerf?

Fact: The spell is not finished. It is broken for a number of weapons.

Fact: It was erroneously added to the spell list of only Artificers that leveled up after U12.

Fact: Due to this, there was (is) discrimination against Artificers without this spell, the very ones that paid Turbine money to get the class before it was available via favor.

What they have done INSTEAD of removing the spell for everyone, is to make a place holder and allow all Artificers access to it.

I will restrain my cries of nerf until I see what the finished spell looks like.

Thank you for putting something in the game in the mean time Turbine, instead of taking the easy way out and taking it away from those who had it.

+1 same sentiments

[sirgog]

It's way better than Elemental Weapons still, as it should be.

3.5 damage that lots of bosses are immune to from Elemental Weapons vs. 4.5 that next to nothing is immune to. (LOB in particular is resistant enough to all four elements to ignore Elemental Weapons).

Pretty sure this wasn't a nerf aimed at present weapons with high damage dice (eSOS, eAntique) but at post-expansion weapons, where I expect base damage will go up up up up.

[Nibor]

Yeah, I would be surprised if this didn't result in exactly the +1[W] as Eladrin talked about once the expansion comes out - likely the standardization of weapon dice won't be until then. That is a good place to introduce major revisions like the weapons dice and the enhancement trees rather than U13. This is just a placeholder spell they feel comfortable enough with to start populating scrolls.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

How are you reading that a temporary change is a permanent nerf?

Fact: The spell is not finished. It is broken for a number of weapons.

Fact: It was erroneously added to the spell list of only Artificers that leveled up after U12.

Fact: Due to this, there was (is) discrimination against Artificers without this spell, the very ones that paid Turbine money to get the class before it was available via favor.

What they have done INSTEAD of removing the spell for everyone, is to make a place holder and allow all Artificers access to it.

I will restrain my cries of nerf until I see what the finished spell looks like.

Thank you for putting something in the game in the mean time Turbine, instead of taking the easy way out and taking it away from those who had it.

Very well stated, that was my reaction, exactly. +1.

[Shade]

It's way better than Elemental Weapons still, as it should be.

3.5 damage that lots of bosses are immune to from Elemental Weapons vs. 4.5 that next to nothing is immune to. (LOB in particular is resistant enough to all four elements to ignore Elemental Weapons).

Pretty sure this wasn't a nerf aimed at present weapons with high damage dice (eSOS, eAntique) but at post-expansion weapons, where I expect base damage will go up up up up.

If they can't have this fixed by the time the expansion is done, the games doomed anyways.

It's not that complex a fix eladrin was talking about.

How are you reading that a temporary change is a permanent nerf?

Didn't see anyone say that.

I really don't care if they call it "temporary" "really SHORT gona fix soon" or " its only for a second"
A nerf is a nerf is a nerf.

It's a nerf.

It's not neccesary for game balance.

Turbine makes no sense.

I don't live in the future, I live in the now. It is nerfed.

[BlackSteel]

I don't live in the future, I live in the now. It is nerfed.

and for any player who invested early its actually a buff