Deadly Weapon change

[FooWonk]

Deadly Weapons has been temporarily changed to address balance and other issues. The spell now adds +1d8 force damage to a target's main hand weapon. This spell will undergo further changes in the future. Additionally, scrolls of Deadly Weapons have been added to the treasure tables, and now have a chance of appearing in chests like other scrolls in the game.

Agreed, deadly weapons on eSoS in its current state is ridiculous. On green steel and epic weapons, on average it added 10 damage per swing.

Elemental weapons v. proposed deadly weapons change:
° 3.5 element (x) damage per swing v. 4.5 force damage per swing
° 15 SP v. 35 SP
° 6 minute duration v. 1 minute / casting level
° 2nd level infusion v. 6th level infusion

Because deadly weapons' benefits v. elemental weapons are so marginal, it won't be worth preparing until 3rd or 4th slot is available. All artificer will prepare blade barrier, tactical detonation & maybe reconstruct before deadly weapons.

Suggestions:
A. Adds a static +2d6 force damage: Adds on average 7 damage per swing.

B. Adds to force burst & armor-piercing: Adds on average 5 damage per swing against 0 fortification opponents with an additional boost against fortified opponents.

[DrawingGuy]

I do agree that Deadly Weapons as it stands is OP. It's fun having that thrown on melee DPSers actually giving casters a run for their money in end game content.

Personally I think a 1d8 force is underpowered for a lvl 6 spell... and marginalized with elemental weapons already being there. I personally would like to see something like 10% fort bypass (that stacks with rogue opportunist).

[djl]

Ugh. Another illogical nerf that shows the Devs are out-of-touch with the game.

1d8 force vs 1d6 elemental is hardly anything, especially considering the level difference of these two spells. I am sure many Artificers will now think twice about carrying Deadly Weapons, and many party leaders will think twice about picking up Artificers if they have a bard or pure DPS class available. I agree that 2d12 force would be far more balanced, or even make it something completely unique like "raises your crit multiplier by one" or something like that.


Also, here's the translation of what that release note really says: "We spent a couple hours trying to decide on a way to better balance this spell and then decided it was more fun to go drinking, so because it's easy we've chosen to nerf it to the point of worthlessness. We may get around to actually rebalancing it, but if that ever occurs it will likely be sometime next year. Happy gaming!"

[Gizeh]

Maybe it's not the deadly weapons spell that needs to be nerfed, but rather the eSOS - no other melee weapon in the game deals that amount of base damage afaik.

[Shade]

Maybe it's not the deadly weapons spell that needs to be nerfed, but rather the eSOS - no other melee weapon in the game deals that amount of base damage afaik.

Yet your min lvl8 lit2 khopesh results in DPS almost identical.

And a sorcerer can put out DPS four times that, while self healing, buffing and cc'ing epic content..

ESoS is not overpowered, nor is a deadlies boosted esos.

It's the bare minimum THF needed to remain competitive in tough epic content (the little that is left).

[djl]

Yet your min lvl8 lit2 khopesh results in DPS almost identical.

And a sorcerer can put out DPS four times that, while self healing, buffing and cc'ing epic content..

ESoS is not overpowered, nor is a deadlies boosted esos.

It's the bare minimum THF needed to remain competitive in tough epic content (the little that is left).

ESoS is not the bare minimum-- it's the best THF has. Well, maybe for an elitist yeah, but THF are still able contribute relevant DPS with lesser weapons. Eantique is the bare minimum for THF.

[Wraith_Sarevok]

ESoS is not the bare minimum-- it's the best THF has. Well, maybe for an elitist yeah, but THF are still able contribute relevant DPS with lesser weapons. Eantique is the bare minimum for THF.

Dude, without the ESoS I get outkilled by ungeared casters in... heck any epic. Epic Red Fens, Epic Devil Assault, Epic Phialran, Epic Deneith... you name it. Even with the ESoS I still equal or get outkilled by geared casters in quests and raids. There's absolutely nothing I can do to keep up with their 1-shot mob spells.

Melee and ranged might as well sit in the corner and let the caster do all the work.

[Jasparion]

Dude, without the ESoS I get outkilled by ungeared casters in... heck any epic. Epic Red Fens, Epic Devil Assault, Epic Phialran, Epic Deneith... you name it. Even with the ESoS I still equal or get outkilled by geared casters in quests and raids. There's absolutely nothing I can do to keep up with their 1-shot mob spells.

Melee and ranged might as well sit in the corner and let the caster do all the work.

Maybe the issue is the player, and not the weapon. eVON1 last night I topped kills as a Ranger mostly using Epic Souleater so I could keep my health up, swapping to dual Turbulent Epee when the mobs were stunned/held.

And no, Im not big-naming myself, Im simply pointing out that if you struggle to get kills with an incredibly powerful weapon, then you need to look at either your gameplay or your character set up.

Or, maybe ignore the fact that you arent getting many trash kills, and instead focus on the most important role for melee DPS - crowding bosses and keeping them away from casters.

I don't live in the future, I live in the now. It is nerfed.

Yes, far better for them to leave something broken, or to even totally remove something from the game while they fix it, than for them to do the sensible thing and have it provide some boost while they get everything working.

If it was implemented badly from the beginning, and all along they had said this and they were going to fix it, you cant call it a nerf. You never should have expected it to stay as it was. Consider it a short term buff like a Holiday 20% XP bonus.

Or do you also expect those to last forever because you like to live in the now? Must be tough being you when those holiday bonuses end.

[nibel]

Dude, without the ESoS I get outkilled by ungeared casters in... heck any epic. Epic Red Fens, Epic Devil Assault, Epic Phialran, Epic Deneith... you name it. Even with the ESoS I still equal or get outkilled by geared casters in quests and raids. There's absolutely nothing I can do to keep up with their 1-shot mob spells.

My rogue usually tops kill counts in any red fens or phiarlan epic he run. And the only epic item worth of notice he have is an epic midnight greetings. Totally anecdotal. Like your example.

Sure, casters with infinite SP (torc + conc opp) can solo any epic because they can shield block archers for 5 minutes to refill their SP. But on a group few people have the patience to wait while the caster refill. And their "oh-so-called-instakill" usually is on cooldown in the next group.

I'm not saying casters aren't powerful. Just saying that on group dynamics, most things that make casters powerful enough to solo epics don't show up.

================================================== =========
Back on topic, what got me worried about the DW change was that the spell only appear to affect the *main hand* weapon, according to the release notes. Anyone on Lamma can say if the spell still affects both weapons on a TWF?

[Qhualor]

Dude, without the ESoS I get outkilled by ungeared casters in... heck any epic. Epic Red Fens, Epic Devil Assault, Epic Phialran, Epic Deneith... you name it. Even with the ESoS I still equal or get outkilled by geared casters in quests and raids. There's absolutely nothing I can do to keep up with their 1-shot mob spells.

Melee and ranged might as well sit in the corner and let the caster do all the work.

100% agree.

i just heard that U14 is going to be called "Casters win, Melees die off Completely"

[Shade]

ESoS is not the bare minimum-- it's the best THF has. Well, maybe for an elitist yeah, but THF are still able contribute relevant DPS with lesser weapons. Eantique is the bare minimum for THF.

maybe read the whole sentence. "for tough epic content" - theres not much of it, but there is some:

For ELoB, I wouldnt go in with any less personally. 630,000 hp is an insane amount and someone has to cut it down.

[grodon9999]

Yet your min lvl8 lit2 khopesh results in DPS almost identical.

Wait a tic . .. did Shade just admit TWFing wasn't behind THFing? Mark this day on your calendar!

[Shade]

A spell on a mediocre class that only buffs the worst classes is in no way overpowered.

For ESoS, It added similar dmg to bard songs, without the to hit bonus.
For everyone else, it added very little dmg in comparison. But considering the gap in performance, the percentage difference wasnt much.

Without deadlies I could hit for 140, with it, 160.. Gamebreaking in a game where we fight 630,000 hp bosses? Hardly.

Bards songs need the nerf too?

No.

Stupid unwarranted nerf is unwarranted.

You do a quick temp fix on things like i dunno, GAME BREAKING EXPLOITs.

Things like this you actaully think through, discuss and adjust acordingly.. In like, I dunno, maybe that 150+ reply thread were we discussed this in depth and Eladrin decided on a reasonable nerf for the spell:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=350514&page=4

Or did Eladrin get fired and all logic went out the window for U13? What is this madness.

You don't go OMG QUICK DO A DUMB NERF to spells that might let a grp take along a artificer to possibly, maybe, perhaps get a 5% faster quest completions.

More idiotic nerfs to melees.

Oh well: Artificers, The next hundred, or thousand times I decline you from my grps/raids for no longer being a worthwhile class in my mind: Blame Turbine.

[Barazon]

Oh well: Artificers, The next hundred, or thousand times I decline you from my grps/raids for no longer being a worthwhile class in my mind: Blame Turbine.

If you're going to rant, how about ranting in a way that doesn't directly contradict one of your own threads? Remember this thread where you called Artificers "the ultimate raid healers for most raids"? So if they're "the ultimate raid healers", how does losing the Deadly Weapons spell make them "no longer [...] a worthwhile class"?

[FooWonk]

If you're going to rant, how about ranting in a way that doesn't directly contradict one of your own threads? Remember this thread where you called Artificers "the ultimate raid healers for most raids"? So if they're "the ultimate raid healers", how does losing the Deadly Weapons spell make them "no longer [...] a worthwhile class"?

As most artificers flat-out refuse to contribute to party healing in any way whatsoever, Shade's hardly being self-contradictory here. If an artificer links stacks of 100 of heal, recon, greater restoration, mass cmw scrolls, CSW pots & at least one superior ardor clicky, I'm sure you'll be more than welcome.

Honestly, with or without the change to deadly weapon, when having a solid group matters, I already auto decline artificers.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Oh well: Artificers, The next hundred, or thousand times I decline you from my grps/raids for no longer being a worthwhile class in my mind: Blame Turbine.

Kinda odd this is from the same person who wrote this...

Artificers - You are the ultimate raid healers for most raids. Exploit this utility.

How:
Very Easily:
1. Get scroll mastery IV.
2. Carry heal scrolls (Too poor, ask your party, they will gladly chip in the cost, any decent veteran player can afford unlimited scrolls.)
3. Win at DDO.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Kinda odd this is from the same person who wrote this...

Guess the only part of "the ultimate raid healers" Shade cared about was that they were his own personal "ultimate raid barbarian buffer."

[Bloodyfury]

Oh well: Artificers, The next hundred, or thousand times I decline you from my grps/raids for no longer being a worthwhile class in my mind: Blame Turbine.

God...thanks for the good laugh! lol
All artis on your server sucks that bad?

Mine is more than able to be more than "just barely useful" in epic contents, even without this stupid spell. ***... just today in eDA, I was +/- 15 in kills behind a eSoS barb fully geared and even ahead on 2 instakillbutton casters. I do have a couple nice epics, but I still don't have the best possible rune-arm either, so ti could be even better. Anyway, just saying, well geared artis, that are good players too, are more than a match.

So, instead of ******** on the forums on an interesting class only cuz they might no longer provide you with the "OMGHESGONNABOOSTMYESOSFOR20MOREDMGOMGGG" spell, maybe you should just select more wisely, rather than pick up ungeared or gimped fleshy artis, cuz I'll give u this right, there's a lot around... and no doubt that this won't help you appreciate this class.

[djl]

Welcome to Dungeons & Casters.

That's what this game is to become in the next update.