So a build that requires at least a TR's worth of gear is for new players?

[Ashlayna]

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Favored_Soul_101

This should perhaps be looked at. It's one thing to follow a build like this when you have the required items in the discussion at the bottom, it's another to say that "a new player will be able to do well with this build". They won't. They won't have level appropriate spells, barring some exceptional luck in either the AH or the pawn brokers, or drops. The suggested stat outlay looks like something more suited to a 2nd lifer, than a new player that maybe bought the class because they thought it looked cool. Although, I have to admit, this is the very first time I've seen the primary casting stat treated as a psuedo dump stat, and posted on a wiki as an officially supported build idea.

[Memek]

The build description is certainly flawed as it claims that pumping CHA grants significantly more spell points.

I suppose in your critique you're implying that a new player cant hit the CHA requirements to cast his spells - that might be true or not, i cant be bothered to check the expected CHA progression now.
But you have to keep in mind that he is pumping the gimpy CHA enhancements.
A FvS can also cast Eagle's Splendor as a level 2 spell, which CHA 12 grants you already and that takes you to level 4 spells. Stat items arent out of reach of new players, neither are +1 tomes.

And Charisma "primary casting stat" for FvS? Well, i dont know how you define "prime casting stat" but CHA IS a near-dump stat for FvS.
Tbh, 12 sounds about right if you dont want to be bothered too much by getting the latest CHA equipment and will even take the enhancements.

As i understand it, the Compendium can be edited by anyone just as a wiki. As such, stuff that is written there is far from "officially supported". After my Monk life i read through the stuff on the wiki and purged the chapter about "Light Monks make better Battle Clerics than Battle Clerics because they can cast Lesser Resto from Ki". So not only could i do that without registration or anything, someone else could also write that non-sense and have it stand for a long time.
I did something similar for FvS when i rolled one and tamed the "OMG CHA most important EVAH" non-sense - that actual numerical values for CHA are mentioned in the section when mentioning CHA is still from my edit a long time ago.

So, if you dont like it, why not edit or comment yourself? Not many people can be bothered it seems.

It's pretty refreshing to find a build in the compendium that DOESNT put CHA as most important stat for a FvS - 12 might or might not be a bit too low for newbies who cant be bothered to get level-appropriate CHA items; But keeping CHA low certainly opens a greater potential for FvS builds and from your post, i'd guess that you GREATLY overvalue this "primary casting stat".

[Krelar]

I'm confused by your post.

They won't have level appropriate spells, barring some exceptional luck in either the AH or the pawn brokers, or drops.

Favored souls get to choose their spells at level up and swap them at the enhancement trainer just like sorcerers, no need to find them anywhere.

Although, I have to admit, this is the very first time I've seen the primary casting stat treated as a psuedo dump stat, and posted on a wiki as an officially supported build idea.

Favored souls casting stat is wisdom which the build you linked has at 18. The only thing charisma does is add some to spell points. (as long as you get it to at least 10+spell level you want to be able to cast)

[Spiffyspiffy]

They won't have level appropriate spells, barring some exceptional luck in either the AH or the pawn brokers, or drops.

Waitwhat?

Fvs don't use scroll drops for spell memorization.

The suggested stat outlay looks like something more suited to a 2nd lifer, than a new player that maybe bought the class because they thought it looked cool.

Well considering it's an actual honest-to-god 28point built, I can't imagine why you'd say that.

I'd still have gone with 8 str / 14 cha, but it's more a matter of choice at that point.

[Ashlayna]

The build description is certainly flawed as it claims that pumping CHA grants significantly more spell points.

I suppose in your critique you're implying that a new player cant hit the CHA requirements to cast his spells - that might be true or not, i cant be bothered to check the expected CHA progression now.
But you have to keep in mind that he is pumping the gimpy CHA enhancements.
A FvS can also cast Eagle's Splendor as a level 2 spell, which CHA 12 grants you already and that takes you to level 4 spells. Stat items arent out of reach of new players, neither are +1 tomes.

And Charisma "primary casting stat" for FvS? Well, i dont know how you define "prime casting stat" but CHA IS a near-dump stat for FvS.
Tbh, 12 sounds about right if you dont want to be bothered too much by getting the latest CHA equipment and will even take the enhancements.

As i understand it, the Compendium can be edited by anyone just as a wiki. As such, stuff that is written there is far from "officially supported". After my Monk life i read through the stuff on the wiki and purged the chapter about "Light Monks make better Battle Clerics than Battle Clerics because they can cast Lesser Resto from Ki".

It's pretty refreshing to find a build in the compendium that DOESNT put CHA as most important stat for a FvS - 12 might or might not be a bit too low for newbies who cant be bothered to get level-appropriate CHA items; But keeping CHA low certainly opens a greater potential for FvS builds and from your post, i'd guess that you GREATLY overvalue this "primary casting stat".

By Primary, I mean where your ability to cast spells comes from. While casting a spell will indeed raise the Cha to get to other spells, once it wears off, or gets dispelled, you're back to your lvl 2 spells again, unless you want to continue quaffing pots/burning sp's to keep your Cha up high enough to cast your class spells.

It makes more sense to me to start with slightly lower Wis, and slightly higher Cha so that you're not depending on gear to make a build effective. I guess, in this day and age in DDO, that makes me unique. As a new player, I don't have a +6 Cha item laying around. I can get +2 tomes, but it sure seems counterproductive to make a build that requires the use of gear/tomes to get where I could get by simply setting my stat reasonably high to begin with. +4 Wis and Cha items hit the Pawn Brokers pretty regularly. Since the build requires putting all stat buys into Wis anyway, I'd think that, since you can equip a +4 item sooner than a +6 item, it would be better to drop the start Wis to 14, put those point into Cha, and build from there. 19 Cha is all the toon needs, and with stat enhancements, that's easier to get, and has the distinct advantage of not being dispellable. That build might as well say: Get into a high level guild, and make sure they keep the highest Cha shrine available in it at all times, because you're going to need it to have all your spells.

ETA: Guess I hurt somebody's feelings, they got to neg rep me for my post.

[DrNuegebauer]

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Favored_Soul_101
Although, I have to admit, this is the very first time I've seen the primary casting stat treated as a psuedo dump stat, and posted on a wiki as an officially supported build idea.

Huh?

Wisdom is the primary casting stat for a favoured soul. That build pumps it!

[Ashlayna]

I'm confused by your post.



Favored souls get to choose their spells at level up and swap them at the enhancement trainer just like sorcerers, no need to find them anywhere.



Favored souls casting stat is wisdom which the build you linked has at 18. The only thing charisma does is add some to spell points. (as long as you get it to at least 10+spell level you want to be able to cast)

Waitwhat?

Fvs don't use scroll drops for spell memorization.



Well considering it's an actual honest-to-god 28point built, I can't imagine why you'd say that.

I'd still have gone with 8 str / 14 cha, but it's more a matter of choice at that point.

It's not the spells they are going to have to drop, it's the Cha enhancement items to make their spells available. You know, the 10 + lvl of spell they need to cast, so 15 Cha for lvl 5 spells.

[Spiffyspiffy]

By Primary, I mean where your ability to cast spells comes from.

12 charisma is plenty to cast level 9 spells. Given the build in the compendium which adds 3 points to charisma from enhancements, only a cha+4 item is needed. A +2tome means that a measly +2 item would work. Rework enhancements to take human adaptability charisma as well and you could get by with a +1 item to cast level 9 spells. What's the issue?

Considering wisdom creates DC, I'd actually argue that "ability to cast spells" against enemy targets is largely based on getting it to stick, so it would really be wisdom.

While casting a spell will indeed raise the Cha to get to other spells, once it wears off, or gets dispelled, you're back to your lvl 2 spells again, unless you want to continue quaffing pots/burning sp's to keep your Cha up high enough to cast your class spells.

Given the very low requirement for item bonus, the only time you'd need to cast Eagle's to be able to cast "high" level spells is around level 6 - when you first get 3rd level spells.

[Spiffyspiffy]

It's not the spells they are going to have to drop, it's the Cha enhancement items to make their spells available. You know, the 10 + lvl of spell they need to cast, so 15 Cha for lvl 5 spells.

Somebody is missing something very important.

*psst*Enhancements.

Favored Soul Charisma I: Grants a +1 increase to your Charisma score.
AP Cost: 2 Level: 2 Progression: 2 No requirements
Favored Soul Charisma II: Grants an additional +1 increase to your Charisma score.
AP Cost: 4 Level: 6 Progression: 16 Requires: Favored Soul Charisma I
Favored Soul Charisma III: Grants an additional +1 increase to your Charisma score.
AP Cost: 6 Level: 10 Progression: 30 Requires: Favored Soul Charisma II

[Memek]

Ok, i just saw that the build in question sprung from an official discussion over 5 pages. So i can understand of "officially supported". On the other hand, i strongly suspect that during those 5 pages it was discussed how much CHA would be needed for a new player. Cant be bothered to read it all, maybe you can and maybe prove me wrong.

it would be better to drop the start Wis to 14, put those point into Cha, and build from there.

No, the build is a healer AND (!) DC caster and butchering WIS would defeat the whole purpose.

19 Cha is all the toon needs, and with stat enhancements, that's easier to get, and has the distinct advantage of not being dispellable. That build might as well say: Get into a high level guild, and make sure they keep the highest Cha shrine available in it at all times, because you're going to need it to have all your spells.

Has nothing to do with high level guilds and the build CERTAINLY doesnt need a CHA shrine.
A CHA +6 item has a min level of 13 if it's clean, so a new player can be expected to aquire one from the AH with min level 15 for cheap.
Thats 18 CHA at level 15 already, and thats not regarding CHA enhancements which the build suggests.

At level 20 the build will easily reach:
12 base + 3 enh (lol, gimp) + 6 item + 2 capstone = 23.
And thats without even a +1 tome, and a +2 tome is certainly affordable at level 20.

So i dont see the problem really... Expect you greatly overestimating the importance of CHA.

[Ashlayna]

Ok, i just saw that the build in question sprung from an official discussion over 5 pages. So i can understand of "officially supported". On the other hand, i strongly suspect that during those 5 pages it was discussed how much CHA would be needed for a new player. Cant be bothered to read it all, maybe you can and maybe prove me wrong.



No, the build is a healer AND (!) DC caster and butchering WIS would defeat the whole purpose.



Has nothing to do with high level guilds and the build CERTAINLY doesnt need a CHA shrine.
A CHA +6 item has a min level of 13 if it's clean, so a new player can be expected to aquire one from the AH with min level 15 for cheap.
Thats 18 CHA at level 15 already, and thats not regarding CHA enhancements which the build suggests.

At level 20 the build will easily reach:
12 base + 3 enh (lol, gimp) + 6 item + 2 capstone = 23.
And thats without even a +1 tome, and a +2 tome is certainly affordable at level 20.

So i dont see the problem really... Expect you greatly overestimating the importance of CHA.

I didn't see the discussion, I was looking into how to build a FvS, and figured that build looked questionable at best. When I don't know, I ask, and give examples on why I think it's wrong. So again, I get to learn things, and grow. However, by the time I'd need higher Wis to ensure that offensive spells are landing, those same +x items for Wis will be available, as I pointed out previously. I guess the nature of the class, you need this stat to get spells, and this stat to cast them doesn't make much sense to me.

[Krelar]

Never mind I was way to slow typing this post

[Memek]

However, by the time I'd need higher Wis to ensure that offensive spells are landing, those same +x items for Wis will be available, as I pointed out previously.

1. Same for CHA.
2. You need both the base stat AND an item for WIS to land spells. Not either or.

I guess the nature of the class, you need this stat to get spells, and this stat to cast them doesn't make much sense to me.

Unclean stat items simply arent a "TR's worth of gear"... A 1st lifer can hit the benchmarks easily unless he refuses to equip his character at all - and no, community made character will typically not assume a "naked" state of mind.

[dkyle]

By Primary, I mean where your ability to cast spells comes from. While casting a spell will indeed raise the Cha to get to other spells, once it wears off, or gets dispelled, you're back to your lvl 2 spells again, unless you want to continue quaffing pots/burning sp's to keep your Cha up high enough to cast your class spells.

The build requires:

+1 CHA item by level 12
+2 CHA item by level 14
+3 CHA item at level 16
+4 CHA item at level 18

This is thanks to the Charisma enhancements available at levels 2, 6, and 10. I don't think that gear is trivial to get at those levels, even for a completely new player. Once they get better gear, and tomes, they can drop the CHA enhancements.

CHA is a dumpstat for FvSs. And 12 is a perfectly reasonable starting CHA for a new FvS. More experienced ones might go with 10, or even less. WIS should always be maxed on a casting FvS.

[Cardtrick]

However, by the time I'd need higher Wis to ensure that offensive spells are landing, those same +x items for Wis will be available, as I pointed out previously.

The difference is that you only need a total of 19 Charisma to get really all the benefit you need (sure, it's nice to have more, for spell points and protection against being debuffed, but 19 is sufficient). Whereas anything less than the high 30s for Wisdom is going to mean failing a lot of spells at endgame, and pushing into the 40s is better if you can. Getting to 19 can be easily done with just random items/tomes/enhancements, but getting into the 30s/40s requires significant build and gear investments.

[Galeria]

When I don't know, I ask, and give examples on why I think it's wrong. So again, I get to learn things, and grow.

Your OP doesn't include a single question....

However, by the time I'd need higher Wis to ensure that offensive spells are landing, those same +x items for Wis will be available, as I pointed out previously. I guess the nature of the class, you need this stat to get spells, and this stat to cast them doesn't make much sense to me.

Is this a question? I can't tell if you really are asking and learning or just stating your opinions.

Did you have a question about this build?

[Ashlayna]

Your OP doesn't include a single question....



Is this a question? I can't tell if you really are asking and learning or just stating your opinions.

Did you have a question about this build?

I asked a question with my topic title, stated why I thought it was questionable in my initial post, and got neg repped for my trouble. Don't trouble yourself with addressing anything else, lesson learned. Those with the audacity to question the upper echelon will suffer the consequences.

[Spiffyspiffy]

I asked a question with my topic title, stated why I thought it was questionable in my initial post, and got neg repped for my trouble. Don't trouble yourself with addressing anything else, lesson learned. Those with the audacity to question the upper echelon will suffer the consequences.

Your "question" wasn't asking for help it was asking "y 4 is dis so st0000pid?" when you clearly don't - or at least didn't - understand game mechanics.

[dkyle]

I asked a question with my topic title, stated why I thought it was questionable in my initial post, and got neg repped for my trouble. Don't trouble yourself with addressing anything else, lesson learned. Those with the audacity to question the upper echelon will suffer the consequences.

People get neg rep'd for disagreement all the time, myself included. You know what's likely to get you even more neg rep? Using it to make yourself out as some kind of martyr, for daring to speak truth to power. Especially when your "truth" has been unanimously and soundly rejected. 12 CHA on a new FvS is a great idea. More would be a waste.

Also, FYI, public complaints about neg rep received by a specific post have been treated as "rep farming" at times, by the mods.

Report the post that got the rep (the "!") icon. Say that it didn't deserve neg rep (and I agree that it doesn't). Most likely, the rep will be removed. I report most of my neg rep, and almost all of that rep gets removed.

[Impaqt]

I asked a question with my topic title, stated why I thought it was questionable in my initial post, and got neg repped for my trouble. Don't trouble yourself with addressing anything else, lesson learned. Those with the audacity to question the upper echelon will suffer the consequences.

You call the title of your post a real question?

It just isnt correct at all.

So it starts with a 12 CHR.. you can cast L1 and 2 spells without doing anything. that gets you to Level 5.

so by Level 6, you need to find a +1 CHR item, or spend 2 action points on Chr enhancements to get to cast level 3 spells.... Bother are incredibly easy for a new player to acquire. So now your at 14 and that gets you to Level 9.

At level 9, you can now get CHR II via enhancements and stat items up to +4 are available. The brokers have modest stat items all the time. as does the auction house. lets say your hard up and end up with a cheap +2 cloak with some junk on it for cheap. that pushes us to a 16 CHR . Thats enough CHR to cast without trouble until we reach level 13.

at level 13, +6 items are available. +4 stat items with junk on em are basically free.
CHR III is also available. So now we can get to a 19 CHR with absolutely no extreme investment in chr at all.

Heck, you bought the class to begin with.... if your hard up.. buy a Tome as well....


Your OP(And subsequent comments) shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the class and the mechanics of DDO.

If you come out firing, better be able to back up what you claim or your gonna get knocked back.

Your title has all the elements of being a trolling post. wording it a little differently would of sent this thread in a completely different direction.


"So a build that requires at least a TR's worth of gear is for new players?"

"How can a new player level this build and maintain spell casting without TR gear or rare items?"

See the difference there? aside from my title actually being a question, its asking for advice and setting expectations on responses.