Monk Tactics

[dkyle]

From U13 Release notes: "Monks and unarmed characters will no longer proc dual wield or double strike attacks when using Trip, Sunder, Stunning Blow, or other special attacks, making them consistent with other classes. Special "monk-only" abilities are unaffected by this change."

I thought all those listed abilities already lacked an offhand proc? I know I don't get consistent double hits with Improved Sunder on my Monk. Maybe regular Sunder was still getting them? And while I understand wanting consistency with other weapons, can we get actual consistency regarding TWF and THF? THF gets glances, but TWF gets no off-hand attack. How about providing the normal off-hand chance on TWF, but don't have it apply the special attack effect?

Although better yet would be restoring the double procs to all TWF, period. TWF needs the love, and was undeserving of the nerf to begin with. Take out the stupid animations (for TWF and THF) while you're at it, too.

Can someone confirm that Stunning Fist hasn't been nerfed? I would think it's considered a "special 'monk-only' ability", but that might only refer to ki strikes and the like.

[Culver.Civello]

Well, stunning blow and Stunning fist are two different things.

Stunning Fist is a monk only move... so I would say... no.

[Coldin]

Of course all the Shintoa abilities still only hit once on an Unarmed TWF monk.

[Cyr]

Simply put because the developers hate all melee besides THF and even then they are just ambivalent.

[dkyle]

Well, stunning blow and Stunning fist are two different things.

Stunning Fist is a monk only move... so I would say... no.

That's what I'm hoping (and think it says). But I also thought they already nerfed the non-Monk tactics feats on unarmed, so I'm confused...

[Redicular]

not on lam to test, but the wording would imply that

stunning fist
tomb of jade
dark finishers
eagle claw
unbalancing strike
quivering palm

and anything else that lists level 1+ monk as its requirement should be unaffected.

if that holds up, I'm cool with it, it is a nerf, but at least its only a nerf to balance(no off-hand is how its been on TWF for a couple updates now)

not happy that this hurts my argument to get -fort added to eagle claw though. this means eagle claw DOES have a clear benefit over sunder(off hand proc) to go with its AP cost, fire stance pre-req, and ki cost. but you takes what you can get. and maybe the enhancement re-work can do something about the entire fire line.

[redspecter23]

I haven't been light monk for a while, but last time I checked, the light side specific moves were only landing a single hit. No double procs. This made the smite ability a complete joke as it was almost certainly lowering your dps by doing it. There was a stealth nerf a few months back that dropped all offhand procs from unarmed tactics like improved sunder, trip and even cleave (which used to be amazing on a monk with full offhand proc on every cleaved target. Oh how I miss that one). At least right now, moves like stunning fist, touch of death and the simple elemental strikes still proc offhand attacks.

As much as the devs claim that this brings everything in line, the simple fact is that some moves proc offhand attacks and some don't now. At least they've finally come out and said that this is working as intended. Now if Turbine can update the tooltips for the abilities to specifically say if it's supposed to proc offhand attacks, it would really clear up any confusion that's remaining, especially for players that don't frequent the forums in order to learn all these little details.

[Shade]

From U13 Release notes: "Monks and unarmed characters will no longer proc dual wield or double strike attacks when using Trip, Sunder, Stunning Blow, or other special attacks, making them consistent with other classes. Special "monk-only" abilities are unaffected by this change."

I thought all those listed abilities already lacked an offhand proc? I know I don't get consistent double hits with Improved Sunder on my Monk. Maybe regular Sunder was still getting them? And while I understand wanting consistency with other weapons, can we get actual consistency regarding TWF and THF? THF gets glances, but TWF gets no off-hand attack. How about providing the normal off-hand chance on TWF, but don't have it apply the special attack effect?

Although better yet would be restoring the double procs to all TWF, period. TWF needs the love, and was undeserving of the nerf to begin with. Take out the stupid animations (for TWF and THF) while you're at it, too.

Can someone confirm that Stunning Fist hasn't been nerfed? I would think it's considered a "special 'monk-only' ability", but that might only refer to ki strikes and the like.

If your asking for consistancy, at least be consistant yourself and get your facts straight:

As of U9, Neither THF nor TWF (armed) got any offhands on anything except:
TWF got offhands on improved sunder (as it used the old TWF 5th attack, and kepts the 100% offhand chance).
Monks kept offhands on everything.

As of U12 (not U13 as the notes imply):
Monks no longer get offhands on anything. (except perhaps stunning fist, didnt test htat)

Improved sunder on TWF may still get an offhand, only one ive not tested lately.

Really stupid uncalled for, unexplained (and even undocumented until now) nerf too, bump my thread here to support ending this nonsense:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=337012

[Ovrad]

As of U9, [snip]
Monks kept offhands on everything.

Sorry but that's wrong. Shintao moves never had off-hand attacks, which is why the smite always was a DPS lost button.

[t0r012]

Sorry but that's wrong. Shintao moves never had off-hand attacks, which is why the smite always was a DPS lost button.

might be misremembering wrong but I'm pretty sure I did double jade tomb a pair of earth elementals once in the same swing.

[Shade]

Sorry but that's wrong. Shintao moves never had off-hand attacks, which is why the smite always was a DPS lost button.

Your statement makes no sense.

How can I be wrong if they never had them to begin with?

My statement was that they never lost any, which is accurate and alines with what your saying as well.

I'm aware they never had any to begin with. They are extremely powerful abilities regardless due to their extreme DCs, (and the fact kukando doesnt need an attack roll).

[Ovrad]

My statement was that they never lost any, which is accurate and alines with what your saying as well.

Well if you wanna play the technical game, they couldn't have "kept offhands on everything" since they didn't have it on everything in the first place.

But the point is not to nitpick phrasing, rather that the changes makes no sense because the only thing that gets double procs is stunning fist. Either give double proc to all monk abilities, or give double procs to every TWF abilities (or no one gets any double procs, but I'd rather not). I fail to see why it works ONLY in one case.