Devs: Can we consider a Paldin buffs buff

[GentlemanAndAScholar]

Many times upon a time in the days of yore of DDO as well as in more recent times, it has been asked for Turbine to give Paladins meaningful buffs other than curatives. Among these were:

"Bless Weapons" which you can cast on an ally and give whichever weapon they are wielding a stacking (with everything else except itself) Righteous effect. Uses 1 Turn Undead.

"Ultimate Sacrifice" Gives you target 10% stacking (with everything else except itself) healing amplification. Reduces by 10% of Paladin's HPs for 5 minutes.

"Pass the Torch" Gives an ally +50% stacking (with everything else except itself) hate generation for 1 minute. Uses 1 turn undead.

"Wrath of the Good" gives an ally a 10% chance of producing an Exalted Smite Evil effect for 1 minute. Uses 1 Smite Evil.

Currently Paladins are far behind DPS-wise of ragetards Barbs and Kensei II Splashes, Assassin III and Ftr/Monk splashes. Their defensive saves and AC boosts are situational at best and at end-game often brought along to tweedle their finger next to the main tank for the aura. I'm talking about well geared Paladins with all the Epic sets and weapons and what not. So, we need Paladins to get a boost in other ways. Giving them abilities so that they can be more helpful to the party is definitely that is needed and I would like for Turbine to consider the above suggestions so that many of us, who enjoy playing Pallies, can feel like a true contributor to a party.

[MRMechMan]

Or just change them so they deal decent DPS?

[dotHackSign]

The paladin can definitely use some help. Paladins were suppose to be the elite that were held to a higher standard and thus got more abilities. In DDO they're more of a mashup that is equal to less than the some if its parts... kinda like a *shudder* bard, but with less flair. I think these ideas would be interesting but I think there is more work that needs to be done. In my opinion, 3 things need to happen.

1. Increased base DPS ability.
2. Increase auras and useful spell abilities.
3. Add real penalties to balance, like the inability to use tainted/evil/chaotic/anarchic items/weapons and summon evil creatures. (have to purify all green steel BEFORE use, no more marilith chain unless it can be purified, can't summon xoriat creatures for help, ect...)

[GentlemanAndAScholar]

The paladin can definitely use some help. Paladins were suppose to be the elite that were held to a higher standard and thus got more abilities. In DDO they're more of a mashup that is equal to less than the some if its parts... kinda like a *shudder* bard, but with less flair. I think these ideas would be interesting but I think there is more work that needs to be done. In my opinion, 3 things need to happen.

1. Increased base DPS ability.
2. Increase auras and useful spell abilities.
3. Add real penalties to balance, like the inability to use tainted/evil/chaotic/anarchic items/weapons and summon evil creatures. (have to purify all green steel BEFORE use, no more marilith chain unless it can be purified, can't summon xoriat creatures for help, ect...)

They definitely need help in many areas. And I agree that with more power and abilities, more penalties and restrictions are in order to make the Paladin feel more like a Paladin instead of a DPS-gimped fighter with good saves.

[DrNuegebauer]

Simple changes:

Make Divine Might instant activiation - and possibly multiply by 1.5 or double the damage that it gives per tier (instead of 2,4,6,8 it would be 3,6,9,12 or 4,8,12,16)

Double the duration of Divine Might (and possibly Divine Favour and Zeal?)


Spells to add:
- something like the Arty buffs that put righteous (level 1) good (level 2) and holy (level 3) on weapons.

- something like the radiant forcefield, but a 'shield of good' or something? (possibly add "good guard" to someone's armour).

[Cyr]

I think any buffs could easily go into the enhancement rework (with much cheaper costs for their existing abilities).

Stuff that improves allies dps within their auras (perhaps against evil outsiders or undead) or that grant allies healing amp would be pretty nice. Pallies could then be specced as party buffers much like a bard giving them a spot in lots of content if the buffs are nice enough...like allies gain good damage on their attacks within their aura for example.

Also, pure dps buffs to individual pali dps should be put in like a line which just adds dps versus evil craetures or lines that expand the undead/evil outsiders stuff in the pre's to work versus all evil creatures.

[licho]

/Signed for more and more useful Paladin spells and abilities.

Im not totally for just more dps, since if we buff everybodies dps we will end with just another hp of monster increase but:
- It will be good if Paladin prestige was more universal, especially when end game contenct is more versalite.
- Its very needed to rethink and improve Paladin spell list, which is simply short, and at leveles 2 and 3 its hard to find anything special, or have a choice at all.
- Some more power to aura is a good idea
- My favorite is to gives pal, ability to "shield other" or pretect, which will allow to take part of dealed to ally dmg to himself. This will really support the idea of "protectors".

[Sidewaysgts86]

I made a thread awhile back suggesting some paladin buffs, sadly never got much attention haha.

To recap it here since its appropriate, Id love to see buffs to divine might- Having it work more like the pnp version where it gives a paladin his/her full charisma mod as a damage bonus- while keeping the charisma requirements for higher tiers and making higher tiers last longer (15 seconds per tier if 4 tiers existed, or 20 seconds per tier if it was dropped to 3 tiers). Also wanted to see divine-weapon included in our enhancement buff list. It works just like divine might but it adds the charisma mod to damage and attack. To compensate it required 2 turn undead attempts instead of just 1.

Also would LOVE to see Lay on Hands recharge over time. Its brilliant at low/mid levels, but I feel at high levels it just doesnt "Scale" properly for the mmo ddo has turned into. The damage we take and how much of it ramps up quite a lot. A slow recharge time is a must though, or else i feel it might easily go from "meh" to pretty OP. At best it should mimic the paladins smite-evil recharge time. Dont want a raise on how many we get either. I feel it should still be an emergency-use heal. Giving us access to only a couple ever at time makes sure we only use them when we need them, versus if we had a stock-pile of them to toss around. Especially if they recharged.

and back to the topic at hand-

HUGELY /signed to making the paladins more "protector" like. Mitigating damage for other characters, etc- would be awesome if done right.

[Teharahma]

Simple changes:

Make Divine Might instant activiation - and possibly multiply by 1.5 or double the damage that it gives per tier (instead of 2,4,6,8 it would be 3,6,9,12 or 4,8,12,16)

Double the duration of Divine Might (and possibly Divine Favour and Zeal?)


Spells to add:
- something like the Arty buffs that put righteous (level 1) good (level 2) and holy (level 3) on weapons.

- something like the radiant forcefield, but a 'shield of good' or something? (possibly add "good guard" to someone's armour).

Nah, make it percentage based. Instant activation.

5% - 10% - 15% - 20%

Players will think twice before multiclassing and/or dumping CHA.

[BruceTheHoon]

Many times upon a time in the days of yore of DDO as well as in more recent times, it has been asked for Turbine to give Paladins meaningful buffs other than curatives. Among these were:

"Bless Weapons" which you can cast on an ally and give whichever weapon they are wielding a stacking (with everything else except itself) Righteous effect. Uses 1 Turn Undead.

"Ultimate Sacrifice" Gives you target 10% stacking (with everything else except itself) healing amplification. Reduces by 10% of Paladin's HPs for 5 minutes.

"Pass the Torch" Gives an ally +50% stacking (with everything else except itself) hate generation for 1 minute. Uses 1 turn undead.

"Wrath of the Good" gives an ally a 10% chance of producing an Exalted Smite Evil effect for 1 minute. Uses 1 Smite Evil.

I'm all for giving paladins a needed boost, but am strongly against all of the suggested buffs.
Considering the widely spread, even dogmatic, belief that paladins are awful DPS, this would push a class, that is supposed to be a decent melee damage dealer and/or tank into a role of a buffbot.

[Roderickus]

Simple changes:

Make Divine Might instant activiation - and possibly multiply by 1.5 or double the damage that it gives per tier (instead of 2,4,6,8 it would be 3,6,9,12 or 4,8,12,16)

Double the duration of Divine Might (and possibly Divine Favour and Zeal?)

I agree on both. Also make Divine Righteous instant. I get so annoyed when I tank on paladin and when I use both I lose good 3-4 seconds casting them while I could continue to accumulate my hate. Plus they last barely 1min, that's even less than haste spell from GS clicky!

I'm all for giving paladins a needed boost, but am strongly against all of the suggested buffs.
Considering the widely spread, even dogmatic, belief that paladins are awful DPS, this would push a class, that is supposed to be a decent melee damage dealer and/or tank into a role of a buffbot.

Not that Pallies can't be made as good dps. But if all those skill/damage and whatnot boosts everyone have are instantaneous why should Paladin buffs be behind? Like I said above, it's annoying u have to lose time casting divine might/righteousness for tanking purposes.

Speaking of paladin spells and buffs... I would like to see Word of Recall added to their spell list. That definitely can't affect their fighting capabilities ... Since he can be Follower of the Sovereign Host I don't see a reason why they shouldn't have it. If that's to much to ask make Follower of the Sovereign Host a requirement.

Also Iv only every played Pally as defender III build and in most cases I rarely use Glorious Stand buff cause it lasts barely 30 sec and massive Cooldown: ~3 min... if the buff can be change to either:
-Last longer (at least 1 min)
-Have shorter cooldown (again 1 or 1.5 min)

But in both cases changed to -Have DR 20/- instead of DR 20/Epic...

[GentlemanAndAScholar]

I'm all for giving paladins a needed boost, but am strongly against all of the suggested buffs.
Considering the widely spread, even dogmatic, belief that paladins are awful DPS, this would push a class, that is supposed to be a decent melee damage dealer and/or tank into a role of a buffbot.

Nothing dogmatic about Paladins having relative-poor DPS. It's empirical. Compare an equally geared ragetard 20 barb or 18ftr/2rog kensai III Even with DMIV, Favor and Zeal, heck, even if you include crazy crit double-strike smites and your DPS will still be severely lagging behind those other two. So, it's a fact, not opinion or belief.

Since a buff on pali DPS (though awesome) would probably cause a "me too, me too" effect, I would rather make them useful through meaningful buffs and abilities.

[PinkDragonJr]

The paladin can definitely use some help. Paladins were suppose to be the elite that were held to a higher standard and thus got more abilities. In DDO they're more of a mashup that is equal to less than the some if its parts... kinda like a *shudder* bard, but with less flair. I think these ideas would be interesting but I think there is more work that needs to be done. In my opinion, 3 things need to happen.

While I'm for any kind of improvement to to the melee classes, i would have to say that if you are looking at a Paladin as a JoaT, then you are doing it wrong. Paladins can be one of many things, in fact they have the greatest versatility in them, however, you can either be a muddle of everything or a master of one. i like them as they are for the challenge they present, in not being tempted to deviate from you chose focus, just so you can do 'a little more' of something else available to paladins.
making everything more powerful will make them too versatile in my opinion, (though, seeing them clean the dungeon effortlessly, while the pale master mutters darkly in the corner would be hilarious) what we need is not another nuke but a nerfing of casters. in fact I see the melee players as a good level of difficulty for the game where the DPS casters are just for those that like popcap style point a click games.

[AMDarkwolf]

easy fix u might all hate, but all of pally buffs, etc, (Boosts, that are pally specific) should just be 'always on' as part of their arua.


Then they would be behind fighters, barbs for dps, but their abilities and buffs would always be on, (And possibly also supplied to other party members though aura) which would make them a very 'well balanced' part of a group, a reliable dpser and tank, while not diminishing fighters/barbs abilities in any way.

[Falco_Easts]

Change DS to a 1 minute stance like the FB Frenzy.

[bloodnose13]

i will be boreing, but i would love divine might to work like in pnp, so cha mod to dmg and duration based on cha mod, that way it would motivate pallies to invest into charisma instead of nearly dumping it (per pally standards that is)

also some spells would be great too, best for giveing pallies some extra dps or at least own dr breaking would be holy weapon change so it would work on ANY weapon and not only on those annointed ones.

bless weapon description in dnd wiki says it gives ghost touch like effect, maybe it could be paired up with righteous, seems about right