Question about PM and AM

[xKuramax]

I am wondering in epic quest contents and end game contents which one is more useful? I have noticed that lvling my PM is a lot easier than my AM but I am not sure which is actually better in the long run.

Off topic/
My friend was wondering are healbot clerics actually worth it for epic contents or is there a better build?

[cdr]

They're both quite good, and can be built somewhat similarly (necro/enchantment). AMs are generally more difficult to build and play right, though - you probably want to stick with PM your first go-around.

[Tuney]

The pro's and con's of AM vs PM starts with are you able to self heal. As a Warforged you have that + most of the immunities that undead form brings you. I say one thing that an Archmagi has over Palemaster are the SLA's. With the very low SP cost SLA's having all the metamagics active, it can provide very useful in 'endurance quests.'

But overall , both are very viable. It is just depending on your playstyle and if you don't want to focus just on enchantment or necromancy. Though AM can be trick as some of the SLA's are 'traps' like "Improved Fortication."

[goodspeed]

Pales can be great especially if you got the past lives behind them. The gear helps as well for wail, though with spell preppage you can reduce the saves for your various ko spells or cc. The added bennifit of self healing is nice to. You just need the sp to go for it. Which in some epics can suck if your going the distance.

Archmages however as stated get those low cost sla's that can be meta'd free. Web is definitely the crown jewel for an AM. A low cost sticky crowd control you can just spam. You can even get a good necro dc if you wanted to do that as well. I think I remember someone quoting a difference on 1 dc? was in some thread in an argument about which.

The main difference is self healing. As cha isn't your thing umding a heal scroll isn't easy like a sorc, but being a WF is just awesome as an AM. Ive also found that maxing int throwing 16 into con and then using the 6 points for wis and taking the cleric dili works very well. Better yet on a second life. (with 28 point builds you can take16 in con and it's possible to nail 450 maybe more.)

Both are fun paths. Hypno is just awesome as 2sp sla for solo. Or if a group doesn't have to run in the middle and cleave mentality.

[butcheredspirit]

You can even get a good necro dc if you wanted to do that as well. I think I remember someone quoting a difference on 1 dc? was in some thread in an argument about which.

When I glanced over PM it appeared they only get a necro bonus at level 18?

For that reason I am still archamge, +1dc at level 6 and another +1at level 15.

That brings a level 15 archmage necro DC bonus, on par with a level 18PM.


I'm level 15 now, loving the evocation SLA and high necro DC.
Went human, I self heal with past life cleric and UMD.

Will possibly go PM at 18...but gona tr at 20 anyways so....

[Iaga]

I'd also like to add that a PM is more of a solo build [doesn't really need anyone else] vs the AM which is way more group friendly.

[xKuramax]

Was wondering if there is an updated 32 point build for AM? Most of the ones I have been looking at are out-dated or for PM. Race wise i would prefer human since I never understood WF. Still kind of new to game.

Thanks for all the feedbacks.

[cdr]

Was wondering if there is an updated 32 point build for AM? Most of the ones I have been looking at are out-dated or for PM. Race wise i would prefer human since I never understood WF. Still kind of new to game.

Thanks for all the feedbacks.

Self-healing arcanes are head-and-shoulders above non-self-healing. Human is great if you're undead since the WF and undead benefits largely overlap, but if you're not undead you really really want to be WF. Nothing compares to quickened Reconstruct in difficult content. If you don't understand WF, there's no better time than now to learn.

People don't tend to post AM builds, though there's some really good ones out there. Here's an OK places to start with AM:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...33#post3758533

[xKuramax]

Self-healing arcanes are head-and-shoulders above non-self-healing. Human is great if you're undead since the WF and undead benefits largely overlap, but if you're not undead you really really want to be WF. Nothing compares to quickened Reconstruct in difficult content. If you don't understand WF, there's no better time than now to learn.

People don't tend to post AM builds, though there's some really good ones out there. Here's an OK places to start with AM:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...33#post3758533

I was looking at that guide u link me to and was wondering with this build is it more focus on CC? Or all wizards go force/kinetic instead of like ice,fire,lightning,acid?

[cdr]

I was looking at that guide u link me to and was wondering with this build is it more focus on CC? Or all wizards go force/kinetic instead of like ice,fire,lightning,acid?

It's kind of an odd build, I couldn't find anything outstanding to be honest. Evocation is for nuking, sort of like what sorcs do. Kinetic is good for AMs since the two generic SLAs you get are force and then the Evocation SLAs are force.

If you're going for maximum CC I'd recommend primary enchantment (taking the 1st tier Hypnotism SLA) and secondary Conjuration (taking the second tier Web SLA). Spell Focus and Greater Focus Enchantment, Spell Focus Conjuration.

[xKuramax]

do you think you have time to make a build for me for AM focus CC that will be useful in endgame content? 32 point build. WF

[Faent]

do you think you have time to make a build for me for AM focus CC that will be useful in endgame content? 32 point build. WF

Easy. Max INT. Then max CON. You need required feats (assumed first life build), and that's it. Here you go:

Toughness
Mental Toughness
Empower
Maximize
Quicken
Heighten
Spell Penetration
Greater Spell Penetration
Necromancy Focus
Greater Necromancy Focus
Conjuration Focus
Insightful Reflexes

[Edit: Instakilling is a form of Crowd Control. But if you insist on gimping yourself, you can substitute Enchantment Focus and Greater Enchantment Focus for the Necro feats.]

[goodspeed]

ya anything that can't heal itself with an am could be dangerous. Course back a ways that was a norm. Prolly why wizards were so ticked. You could do it but ud be at the mercy of a heal source.

Which is never fun when the **** hit's the fan. A heal scroll a death aura, or even a spell reconstruct is just a nice safety blanket feeling.

[Kinerd]

One thing that changes when you get to endgame content is Spell Resistance. On first life builds, this is where AM knocks PM out of the park with Web. A dead monster is the optimal solution, no one argues that, but there are a non-negligible number of monsters that you can't expect to instant kill: constructs, undead, high SR targets (e.g. epic Drow). Even first life with fairly unremarkable gear, an AM wizard with SLA Web is useful against everything but spiders and ghosts. The cost is being slightly to somewhat less useful against those targets the PM has the edge in annihilating.

I generally agree with Faent's feat list but I would make two substitutions:
1 - Toughness and SF: Conjuration
3 - Spell Pen
5 - Mental Toughness
6 - Maximize
9 - Greater Spell Pen
10 - SF: Enchant (or Necro)
12 - GSF: Enchant (or Necro)
15 - SF: Necro (or Enchant) and Heighten
18 - GSF: Necro (or Enchant)
20 - Quicken
I drop Empower because 80% direct damage is worth it to me for +1 DC on Necro (or Enchant).
I drop Insightful Reflexes because buffs and getting out of the way work well enough for me in the overwhelming majority of content.

Enhancementwise, take Spell Mastery: Conjuration at level 6, then swap to Spell Mastery: Enchant (or Necro) and Secondary Spell Mastery: Conjuration at level 12. The only SLAs I take are Hypnotism and Web (requires Grease).

[xKuramax]

was wondering what spells i should enhance if i need dmg when leveling up?

[Mrmorphling]

Fire is a solid choice until Vale of Twilight as Firewall + Fireball are excellent AoEs and scorched rays are good low lvl nukes.
After that you can either switch to ice (icestorm plus otiluke plus cone of cold plus DoT plus polar ray) or lightning (ball light, light, chain light, DoT); i personally prefer full ice spec with a minor in lightning.

[xKuramax]

for endgame content would force be any good or still ice and lightning because i am running into trouble with undead mobs.

[jortann]

Enchanted Death
The goal is to have decent Necro and Enchantment DCs at end game. I would suggest Warforged for the self healing. You can get an extra DC if you go Drow, but then you would have to be a Drow and purple and squishy. Also you could go human for an extra level 1 feat and one extra point of INT, which gets you half way to another DC.

Build Points
INT - 18
CON - 16 (15 if human because you will add a human adaptability point there)
STR - minimum 12
CHA - Put whatever you have left here if you are a fleshy, then you might have enough UMD to use some sort of self healing other than pots.... if you care about that sort of thing.

Feats
1. Toughness
1. Insightful Reflexes OR Extend OR Empower (Check out this thread here for a discussion on this... http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=332478
1. (human bonus - grab another of Insightful Reflexes OR Extend OR Empower)
3. Maximize
5. Mental Toughness
6. Spell Focus: Enchant
9. Greater Spell Focus: Enchant
10. Heighten
12. Spell Focus: Necro
15. Greater Spell Focus: Necro
15. Spell Penetration
18. Greater Spell Penetration
20. Quicken

Skill Points
You have lots so it doesn't really matter.... My preference...
Concentration, Jump, Balance, Spot, UMD, Diplo, Bluff

Enhancements
Make sure you you get the prereqs for your archmage prestige enhancements.

Take Archmage Spell Mastery I & II in either Necro or Enchantment
Take Archmage Secondary Mastery in the other
Take Spell Penetration

I would not waste enhancement points on SLAs... That is my take. Some people love them, but I feel it cuts into my spell point pool too much.

The rest is a balance between hitpoints and power.

I try to ramp up two schools. I love fire. Ice works well at end game. Electric and acid seem to have potential as well. There would be a good arguement to have Ice and Electric at end game because they both have good DoTs (Damage over Time spells - Eladers Electric Surge and Niacs Biting Cold).

Thats the basics...

[xKuramax]

thanks everyone for their inputs

[Kinerd]

I would not waste enhancement points on SLAs... That is my take. Some people love them, but I feel it cuts into my spell point pool too much.

SLA Web is the best tool in an AM's arsenal. At the cost of 75 max SP, you get 3 SP Heightened Web. That would normally cost 50 SP, so if you only cast it twice per shrine you are 19 SP ahead of the game. From an SP cost perspective it's easy money.

The far greater cost is that you have to spend a feat (SF: Conjuration) and AM Secondary Spell Mastery on it, but it is still absolutely worth it. I would never make an AM without it, especially as targets with prohibitively high SR or outright immunity to death/enchant continue to crop up more in the late game.