My Light Monk has .....

[xxScoobyDooxx]

You mention more than once that you use tier 1 earth wraps which directly conflicted with you mentioning repeatedly that you have a DC 48 stunning fist DC. The two don't add up, I was seeking clarification.

Just to clarify .... they are tier 2 alchemical earth/air, which i mentioned previously, and haven't said anywhere they were tier 1. I said i cant be bothered typing out the full spec so sure things could be assumed.. but instead of assuming then taking that assumption to a conclusion that was wrong you could have just asked.

The lightning strikes feel like they go off more than a lit 2 GS weapon. The earthgrab goes off ALL the time ... on a 14 second dummy takedown they always go off at least once and sometimes 3 times. I do not use them for stunning. I use them for trash and in fire stance (that useless stance you mentioned) I get my full heal amp and 3's and 7's using my alchemical's.

Fire stance - when I need max self heal and increased strength for more dmg and to hit.
Earth stance - increase crit mult, more hp and damage mitigation
water stance - inc wis, inc saves, for stunning and thousand stars/manyshot

Also I am trialing what works and what doesn't, I may LR again once I have finished testing what works well and what doesn't.

Cool! I hope to hear about it

This is all excellent food for my own thought processes on my monkcher build which is the next big project that I will be starting on shortly.

Thanks - good luck with your builds - I'll keep posting feedback.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Just to clarify .... they are tier 2 alchemical earth/air, which i mentioned previously, and haven't said anywhere they were tier 1. I said i cant be bothered typing out the full spec so sure things could be assumed.. but instead of assuming then taking that assumption to a conclusion that was wrong you could have just asked.

The lightning strikes feel like they go off more than a lit 2 GS weapon. The earthgrab goes off ALL the time ... on a 14 second dummy takedown they always go off at least once and sometimes 3 times. I do not use them for stunning. I use them for trash and in fire stance (that useless stance you mentioned) I get my full heal amp and 3's and 7's using my alchemical's.

Fire stance - when I need max self heal and increased strength for more dmg and to hit.
Earth stance - increase crit mult, more hp and damage mitigation
water stance - inc wis, inc saves, for stunning and thousand stars/manyshot

Also I am trialing what works and what doesn't, I may LR again once I have finished testing what works well and what doesn't.



Thanks - good luck with your builds - I'll keep posting feedback.

Sorry for the confusion, I didn't mean that they were tier 1 alchemicals, I meant that they had earth on tier 1.

Fire stance works nicely with light path, especially if it brings you up another tier of ticks, just back to that trick of balancing DPS with sustainability. Still, depending on your strength itd likely work fine without any points invested in it (save 5 AP for -1 strength, -2 Ki on crits).

Lightning Strike will go off 9-10% more than a litII weapon courtesy of the faster attack speed of handwraps. Currently I'm using Air/Water handwraps for the untyped damage, max SF DCs and as (pretty) universal boss beaters (exceptions are tharaak wraps for abbot and +5, TC, AL HWs of GCB for LoB). I'd love some Air/Air or other dedicated devil beaters down the track but I'm fine with these for now.

If you're generally using earth/air handwraps vs trash then generally your SF DC isn't 48 (as SF DC is for trash). Instead, you've figured out perhaps that Ki is a bit tight for the build and that you'd rather the cheaper CC of the alchemical earth wraps compared to SF though of course you can swap in +10 stunners if needed. If this is finally the correct conclusion it certainly wasn't one easily arrived at without direct experience with the build (though I suspected).

[xxScoobyDooxx]

If you're generally using earth/air handwraps vs trash then generally your SF DC isn't 48 (as SF DC is for trash). Instead, you've figured out perhaps that Ki is a bit tight for the build and that you'd rather the cheaper CC of the alchemical earth wraps compared to SF though of course you can swap in +10 stunners if needed. If this is finally the correct conclusion it certainly wasn't one easily arrived at without direct experience with the build (though I suspected).

Your a strange chap. If you want to know something .... ask ..... playing this game of you saying how I do things (most often slightly wrong) and then me correcting you is getting tiring.

I'll spell it out for you. SOMETIMES ... I stun things .... when I do I swap some gear and use stunning 10 wraps ..... Most often I am either using my Epic Thornlord or bashing things with my alchemical and NOT trying to stun anything and I'm not trying to be crowd control either.

I never have issues with ki ... I am either in earth/water stance with henshin set or fire stance with shinto set

If you think monks are crowd control then I have no idea what end game you are playing. In end game I am playing the casters insta kill all trash before I get 2 or 3 strikes off. If I stun it then I am lucky to hit it 3 more times before it's killed by some laughing over the mic PM. If it can't be insta killed then generally it cant be stunned either.

I have found trying to stun in end game in a good party is pointless which is why I TR'd this toon into this build ... a DPS/stun pure monk build is no fun as you'll never end up with top dps compared with other end game builds and insta killing makes stunning redundant. (my experience)

The alchemical earth/air wraps are FUN ... turning stuff to stone and earth grabbing them which which goes off all the time is fun ... a novel concept I know but I enjoy using them and they make good boss beaters (for many bosses) which means less gear swapping.

If I am solo then it depends on the trash and I will alternate. Solo Epics sure I will go "stun mode" but solo epics on a monk is not efficient and I use my PM for that as most people do.

If I want real DPS I go AA mode.

Anyways ...... another minor update

I am making some air/air wraps (need a greater power cell snarfle) and have made a stalker ring (last night griiind ... more experimentation to come.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Your a strange chap. If you want to know something .... ask ..... playing this game of you saying how I do things (most often slightly wrong) and then me correcting you is getting tiring.

I'll spell it out for you. SOMETIMES ... I stun things .... when I do I swap some gear and use stunning 10 wraps ..... Most often I am either using my Epic Thornlord or bashing things with my alchemical and NOT trying to stun anything and I'm not trying to be crowd control either.

I never have issues with ki ... I am either in earth/water stance with henshin set or fire stance with shinto set

If you think monks are crowd control then I have no idea what end game you are playing. In end game I am playing the casters insta kill all trash before I get 2 or 3 strikes off. If I stun it then I am lucky to hit it 3 more times before it's killed by some laughing over the mic PM. If it can't be insta killed then generally it cant be stunned either.

I have found trying to stun in end game in a good party is pointless which is why I TR'd this toon into this build ... a DPS/stun pure monk build is no fun as you'll never end up with top dps compared with other end game builds and insta killing makes stunning redundant. (my experience)

The alchemical earth/air wraps are FUN ... turning stuff to stone and earth grabbing them which which goes off all the time is fun ... a novel concept I know but I enjoy using them and they make good boss beaters (for many bosses) which means less gear swapping.

If I am solo then it depends on the trash and I will alternate. Solo Epics sure I will go "stun mode" but solo epics on a monk is not efficient and I use my PM for that as most people do.

If I want real DPS I go AA mode.

Anyways ...... another minor update

I am making some air/air wraps (need a greater power cell snarfle) and have made a stalker ring (last night griiind ... more experimentation to come.

Let this be your lesson, post a build lest people make assumptions

This is my recent tactics/DPS rogue build. I enjoy the current 49 stunning fist, 43 stunning blow, 43 improved sunder immensely (in water stance). Obviously at times I'm never getting a hit in edge ways on account of the insta killing pale masters but orange named mobs can usually be stunned (think Bearded Devil Troopers in epic chrono or many others), drow can be stunned easily (SR is often an obstacle for pug casters) and some high fort mobs in particularly hard epics (eDQ1's Cacodemon's and Efreet for example). Yes, I sacrifice some DPS but it is a truly marginal amount (I've learned my lesson about remembering to put on hate reducing gear even in guild/channel runs).

It's good to hear feedback about the earth alchemical handwraps, i'll keep it in mind. Just made some epic rock boots to share between my characters so will hopefully enjoy the varying procs.

[xxScoobyDooxx]

Made alchemical air wraps and finished the tier 3 stalker ring.

I found out today that Rams might is NOT working on wraps. Cast it and no increase in strength by 2.... not sure gonna do more testing ... also want to test the exceptional sneak attack and make sure that works. I'll report back once done.

[xxScoobyDooxx]

Let this be your lesson, post a build lest people make assumptions

I said at the start I can't be ass'd ..... heh

[scottmike0]

whyyy
why do you not like ac D:
T.T
Meh, i was thinking of true reincarnating into this, then i saw that 33 ac and I'm Like OHHH h** no...
xD
guess back to the the original plan of 19 monk 1 arti
a Umd ac voidstriker tank
so instead of me having a regular 32 with all gear and buff i will have 12 more umd
just loss of 10/epic and a couple fort saves

[xxScoobyDooxx]

OK - Some unfortunate testing results.

Whilst shooting the dummy I noticed my to hit changing in unexplainable ways. (also I checked with guildies and tested this extensively to ensure I wasn't missing something so if I leave a fact out below don't assume I stuffed up ... but please ask)

I have Zen archery - and my Wisdom is much higher than my Dex so my to hit with a bow should use my Wisdom score not Dex.
I normally run with epic gem of facets and Epic Gloves of the claw and Epic ravens sight. +4 to hit and +4 dmg.
I switched to my Epic Thornlord and noted my to hit - say it was +42 in water stance
I then swapped my gloves for Epic spectrals - so I loose +4 dmg, strength doesnt change (+7 on epic mroranon) and I gain +7 dex and +4 to hit (which stacks with Raven sight +4 to hit) so I should see +46 ... BUT i now see +48. If I go to wind stance (adds more dex) it goes up to +49 (less wisdom and more dex). Note my wisdom was around 36 and my dex was 26/27ish with Espectrals.

I tried restarting my client and retesting and got consistent results. So Zen Archery not working ??

Also - My to hit with wraps was way off. If I got +42 to hit with bow I was getting +34 to hit with wraps. and swapping wraps, stances and gear got unexplained results. My conclusion was that the wraps where not getting all the to hit bonuses they should have been getting.
I did less testing on the wraps so I need to do more to contribute a clearer picture of what was wrong but suffice to say they were way off what they should have been. Oh and I swap to an epic souleater and my to hit and dmg goes way up. Souleater should only add +2 strength, which it does.

AND - Rams might, +2 strength, use any non handwraps (bow, staff etc) and strength goes up by 2. Put handwraps on and strength drops by 2 on the character sheet. 40 strength shows on char sheet holding bow, swap to wraps and strength drops to 38 on char sheet.

What worries me is if I add up all the things(effects and such) that should be applied to wraps that you don't easily get to see, how do you know they are working. If to hit isn't right then what about everything else. I heard crafted wraps are buggy but these tests where with a range of alchemical, maybar and standard loot wraps(like +2 banishers with nothing else on them).

Is anyone else seeing strange to hit bonuses with wraps, gear and stance swaps ?? So much was broken when I looked that it is making me doubt the class as being viable ... you plan, grind out gear only to find it doesn't work. Pointless.

I got the fabricators set last night and unlocked it. The to hit and damage bonus did look like it was being applied correctly so at least they got that right.

[freekay]

Oops. I forgot to mention that to you, Bash. Zen archery is bugged atm - for some reason it won't apply your full Wisdom score... even funnier is, if you increase your dex, your to-hit score will still go up! Switch into wind stance and see!

Heh... this is why I switched out Zen Archery on my toon - it doesn't have access to 10k stars, so it was a worthless feat to me xD

Sorry for not telling you sooner... it must've slipped my mind - something about d17, d20 <_<

[xxScoobyDooxx]

Oops. I forgot to mention that to you, Bash. Zen archery is bugged atm - for some reason it won't apply your full Wisdom score... even funnier is, if you increase your dex, your to-hit score will still go up! Switch into wind stance and see!

Heh... this is why I switched out Zen Archery on my toon - it doesn't have access to 10k stars, so it was a worthless feat to me xD

Sorry for not telling you sooner... it must've slipped my mind - something about d17, d20 <_<

It's not such a bad bug as the to hit is still decent but the wraps bugs are terribad.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Your a strange chap. If you want to know something .... ask ..... playing this game of you saying how I do things (most often slightly wrong) and then me correcting you is getting tiring.

Then post everything about the build.

I said at the start I can't be ass'd ..... heh

Then why tell him to ask you about the build, when you've clearly said you can't be arsed to do it? Either post the build and avoid confusion, or don't post it and expect assumptions. There really is no other likely outcome.

[xxScoobyDooxx]

Then post everything about the build.

Then why tell him to ask you about the build, when you've clearly said you can't be arsed to do it? Either post the build and avoid confusion, or don't post it and expect assumptions. There really is no other likely outcome.

I disagree, there is another outcome .... why expect assumptions ... why cant people ask questions.

Someone who wants to know about my healamp could ask - "hey is that much heal amp needed or overkill"

I would then answer about what I think, and if they want to now how I get that much I will post it.

I would say a majority of posts listing "the stats" don't give you a picture of how the toon actually plays.

I'm not going to give people a "cookie cutter" build ... but I'm happy to share what works and what doesn't in my opinion. Classic example of this is any build listed on the forums with Zen Archery is a fail currently because the feat doesn't work.

This is an experimental build ... learning what works and what doesn't ... it's likely to change .... and predominantly because of bugs.

[FengXian]

40 wis, 40 str 541 hp :/ I assume either no IPS or I'm missing something about the stats. Even assuming 40 wis in water, 541 hp in earth and 40 str in fire...did you go wild on +3 tomes?

Since I'm testing a very similar build it would help if you actually posted it full makes it much easier to compare then having to ask specific questions every time. It's not like we want to copy it or something anyway

[Absolute-Omniscience]

I disagree, there is another outcome .... why expect assumptions ... why cant people ask questions.

Someone who wants to know about my healamp could ask - "hey is that much heal amp needed or overkill"

I would then answer about what I think, and if they want to now how I get that much I will post it.

I would say a majority of posts listing "the stats" don't give you a picture of how the toon actually plays.

I'm not going to give people a "cookie cutter" build ... but I'm happy to share what works and what doesn't in my opinion. Classic example of this is any build listed on the forums with Zen Archery is a fail currently because the feat doesn't work.

This is an experimental build ... learning what works and what doesn't ... it's likely to change .... and predominantly because of bugs.

But, if I ask for all your enhancements because I want to see what you've taken, and I want to see all your feats to see if they're like mine, and I want to see all your base stats to see how you got 40/40 str/wis, and I want to see all your item swaps since myDDO doesn't show swaps, and I want to see all your skills, etc.
Then that's exactly like posting a build.Which you couldn't be arsed to do.

The numbers doesn't show it plays, but they show how well it plays.

[FengXian]

But, if I ask for all your enhancements because I want to see what you've taken, and I want to see all your feats to see if they're like mine, and I want to see all your base stats to see how you got 40/40 str/wis, and I want to see all your item swaps since myDDO doesn't show swaps, and I want to see all your skills, etc.
Then that's exactly like posting a build.Which you couldn't be arsed to do.

The numbers doesn't show it plays, but they show how well it plays.

This. Besides, I'm sure you found a nice way to play it but it's hardly something worth keeping secret, the 12 monk 6 ranger 2 fighter build has been discussed a lot on the forums.

The main question (besides going light/dark, which is debatable but I still prefer dark for the 3d6 sneak damage, water strider, shadow fade, blah blah) is prolly whether it's worth leveling up in wis for the supposed increase in dps during 10k stars (and well some veeery situational usefulness of stunning fist) or if one should just make it simple and go str.

But if you say you can reach 40 wis even putting levels into str and having a decent con and IPS, then yeah, this is the question: wis breakdown plz. No temp bonuses, if I remember it right...

[xxScoobyDooxx]

the 12 monk 6 ranger 2 fighter build has been discussed a lot on the forums.

This ... so why do I need to post again..... those in the know can figure it out ... those that arn't read someone elses post.

I am at work atm. I can't log into my account. When I go home I play when I get the chance. I am not going to take 1 hour of game time to note down every detail and then post it for the trolls to come out and feed.

Do you really think it is not possible to hit 40 Wisdom? or 40 Strength? .... so now your playing the game of catch me out ?????

What ever ...... myddo shows my toons ..... I have no idea what im doing and I lie on the forums about my stats ... all that epic gear I won in the lottery.

[xxScoobyDooxx]

more strangeness - a few posts ago I said that Rams might wasn't working when I had wraps on ..... well last night it was.

So it seems you can end up in a state of brokeness that a client restart won't fix, which then for some unexplained reason fixes itself a day later........ because I am trying so many combos atm it's hard to nail. I'll try to find out what gear or buff combo breaks it and report back.

[xxScoobyDooxx]

But if you say you can reach 40 wis even putting levels into str and having a decent con and IPS, then yeah, this is the question: wis breakdown plz. No temp bonuses, if I remember it right...

You remember wrong ... read the OP ... no where does it say 40 wisdom with no buffs. In a later post I say I can hit 40 wisdom and have Zen Archery. 40 Wisdom is with a yugo pot I think from memory and in water stance I hit 38 with ship buffs. Also Zen archery is broken, dex is still being used for to hit. So wisdom for bows currently is broken and pointless.

If you mean IPS being improved precise shot ... I don't have that and never said I did.

Another reason for me not being ass'd ..... you cant even read and quote straight from this thread ... why ... can't you be ass'd .... why should I put any effort into answering you when all you are doing is trolling with incorrect statements.

[wax_on_wax_off]

You remember wrong ... read the OP ... no where does it say 40 wisdom with no buffs. In a later post I say I can hit 40 wisdom and have Zen Archery. 40 Wisdom is with a yugo pot I think from memory and in water stance I hit 38 with ship buffs. Also Zen archery is broken, dex is still being used for to hit. So wisdom for bows currently is broken and pointless.

If you mean IPS being improved precise shot ... I don't have that and never said I did.

Another reason for me not being ass'd ..... you cant even read and quote straight from this thread ... why ... can't you be ass'd .... why should I put any effort into answering you when all you are doing is trolling with incorrect statements.

If you don't post the build then people have trouble pointing out the flaws in your build, or maybe that's the point?

No way in hell I'd roll up a 10k stars archer without improved precise shot, totally ruins the whole point of the build. Without it you're trying to compete in single target DPS with melee characters which will fail.

I don't know what is going on with Zen Archery but wisdom should still be increasing proc rates of 10k stars so makes the investment worthwhile. Last time I had zen archery (a while ago) it worked fine so not sure what has changed.

[xxScoobyDooxx]

No way in hell I'd roll up a 10k stars archer without improved precise shot, totally ruins the whole point of the build. Without it you're trying to compete in single target DPS with melee characters which will fail.

Boss DPS is single target ... this is what it is used for and I have to be careful not to pull agro all the time ... and I can hold agro using thousand star, manyshot , thousand stars if required. It might ruin your build not having it but it is not required for my build. Also I can't fit it in.
Its a party trick for trash and in Epics I run the trash die faster to the necro casters than anything else.

I don't know what is going on with Zen Archery but wisdom should still be increasing proc rates of 10k stars so makes the investment worthwhile. Last time I had zen archery (a while ago) it worked fine so not sure what has changed.

It is bugged ... so you don't even have a character atm ?? how can you comment on flaws in my build if you don't have a similar character that you play ....... ahhh that's right... you use paper theory ..... and this is why I am posting like I am ... it's based on first hand experience and not some unprovable theory ... my way is accounting for... bugs like Zen archery not working and dodgy handwrap bonuses.

My build is for end game epic raiding. DPS on trash is almost irrelevant. If you came up with an idea for my build that would help in end game epics then I'd consider it... So far all you have brought to the table for this build is pointless.

Build your max wis build ... you'll be ****ed when you find it doesn't work because of the bugs in the game.