Heal potions, the time has come

[Infant]

/not signed

You want self-healing -- build your character for it.
You want DPS -- build your character around it.

Infant

edit: the fact that casters can have both without tradeoffs is one of the things ehich make this game unbalanced

[zeonardo]

Yes...it would seem you missed the point.

Like Classes and Roles?

Why would I expect a melee class to be as effective as a divine class on self healing?
The point where if you give all classes ways to achieve other classes advantages there's no point in having classes at all??

Did I miss it?

[voodoogroves]

The point is you want a full-****** melee to have as good self-healing as one that made DPS sacrifices to get there.

The Paladin-player plays a paladin to get rock-solid saves, lay on hands, self healing from their blue bar and some burst DPS from smites. The Ranger-player plays a ranger to have flexibility between melee and ranged, blue bar buffing, Evasion, skills and healing.

The Ranger tempest should have excellent attack speed, but their per-hit damage should be behind the fighter and barb. Their overall melee DPS should be lower too, to account for the fact that said ranger has other things on their side.

The fighter should be able to invest deeper in feats if they chose, or be more broad (tactics).

The fact that caster don't need hjeals is a problem, this is doubling down on that problem.

When I see someone talking about uninterrupted pot-healing for a melee, I ask myself "And does this drive the nail into the coffin of the WF arcane?" I mean, if I can get an additional feat AND heal myself without having to use a scroll you can interrupt by going human ... is my sorc just better that way? Plenty of folks do amazing things on human sorcs already just UMDing heal scrolls, right?

[Crann]

/not signed

you want self-healing -- build your character for it.
You want dps -- build your character around it.

Infant

edit: The fact that casters can have both without tradeoffs is one of the things ehich make this game unbalanced

qft

[voodoogroves]

I see nothing wrong with an EXCLUSIVE item with even a few heal clickies for an emergency situation, like an Epic Hammer of life or Circle of Hatred (has Harm, but you get the idea).

Pots are OP because they are unlimited.

You know ages ago I did a Claw run (shortly after it came out) with some CC guys and all we had was 6 melees with a bit of stunning, pots on our hotbars and one guy's Hammer of Life. It was mostly a backpack ride (ty Kyroli), but still fun killing the giants with our only healing being basically that. I'm not sure anyone had SF pots either.


FWIW, I'm also ok with any items in game with Healer's Bounty (or similar, different so you could wear a Levik's too) that are harder for casters to use. I'd have loved to see something from the Madness chain with it - have it give some healing amp too and something else useful - but like a 20 penalty to concentration and/or a SP cost / CL penalty / DC penalty.

That even turns it into a gear choice. Casters won't want it, but melee can deal with it - if they gear for it and take away from their DPS. Like a gloves slot. Or Neck.

[Templarion]

Even a small amount of self-healing makes playing a melee much more enjoyable. When paladin's Lay on Hands or ranger's Cure Wounds is combined with healing potions, it feels like you can actually take care of yourself.

I see no reason why Barbarian and Fighter classes shouldn't enjoy this fun as well.

[Chai]

Quite a few forumites harp on the issue of being able to "guzzle mana pots" to replace skill. Some of the same names are now supporting guzzling heal potions to victory?

[Psiandron]

Was this when the level cap was 10, and the toughest quest in the game was Tempest Spine?

It is at least time for CCW Pots at a higher caster level.

Although, I think Heal pots are overdoing it.

I really think Silver Flame pots and SP pots are overpowered.

They should be "Oh S#$%" buttons, not dietary staples, but thats another discussion.

Yeah, probably. It was before I started playing. My point was that it may not be up to Turbine whether or not they can change the current situation, supposing that WotC is still not amenable to said change. Ofc, WB could help give Turbine leverage to get WotC to reconsider, but that's whole 'nother can of worms.

SF pots are OP? What about anybody being able to take UMD? That was a rogue only ability in pnp. What about the 'dilly' ability of helves? What about WF? I don't see where giving melees a better way to heal than CSW is going to break the game.

[QuantumFX]

I see nothing wrong with an EXCLUSIVE item with even a few heal clickies for an emergency situation, like an Epic Hammer of life or Circle of Hatred (has Harm, but you get the idea).

Pots are OP because they are unlimited.

Yeah. That’s why I think adding Caster Level 15 + Maximized Cure Serious Potions would be a nice starting point for Silver Flame Tier II favor. (It scales cure potions into the mid-teens.)

And then adding the inventory space killing wonderous items from my 2nd post to the options for Silver Flame Tier III favor would open up some options for people who hate the Silver Flame potions. (Or, short handed: Silver Flame pots for Fighter/Barbarians, Single shot clicks for the more self sufficent.)

I would also like to see the Topaz of the Twelve become at least a 10 shot clickie. 50 planar shards for a single heal is a bad joke.

Another option would be to add some healing amp potions to the SF vendor. (Think ardor potions.) Just make sure they’re the same bonus types as items so the stacking doesn’t get too insane.

[voodoogroves]

SF pots are OP? What about anybody being able to take UMD? That was a rogue only ability in pnp.

You are showing your age. That hasn't been rogue-only for a while ;-)

[Cauthey]

quite a few forumites harp on the issue of being able to "guzzle mana pots" to replace skill. Some of the same names are now supporting guzzling heal potions to victory?

ultimately, if you want to chug-to-win, you're going to have to pay for it one way or another (side effects, favor grinding, or tps).

b

[Uska]

No to heal pots! Yes to ccw pots!

[grodon9999]

Even a small amount of self-healing makes playing a melee much more enjoyable. When paladin's Lay on Hands or ranger's Cure Wounds is combined with healing potions, it feels like you can actually take care of yourself.

I see no reason why Barbarian and Fighter classes shouldn't enjoy this fun as well.

Then open your eyes.

As soon as Rangers and pallies get barbarian and fighter DPS and HP it'll be okay for fighters/barbs to get ranger/pally self-healing.

[Psiandron]

You are showing your age. That hasn't been rogue-only for a while ;-)

Doh! You're right, they did change that after 2e. I forgot. Sorry.

The point is the game is full of easy buttons and I hardly think that giving players access to CCW or possibly even heal pots is going to be that big a deal.

[somenewnoob]

Then open your eyes.

As soon as Rangers and pallies get barbarian and fighter DPS and HP it'll be okay for fighters/barbs to get ranger/pally self-healing.

You don't play ranger for the self healing, you play it for the pew pew!!

[grodon9999]

You don't play ranger for the self healing, you play it for the pew pew!!

if you do that you're playing your ranger wrong.

Rangers are actually maybe the third best archers right now. yeah, DDO isn't broken

[chodelord]

/not signed
You want self-healing -- build your character for it.
You want DPS -- build your character around it.

Or run a WF arcane, a divine, a pale master, or an artificer.

But I don't want those nerfed, I want other builds to be just as much fun. And I want divines to have to spend less time watching health bars which isn't fun.

[MrWizard]

4 melees, 2 with stun, all 4 with trip....pretty much take out 6 bad guys in a group rather quickly and easily...

worth about 10 heal pots.

[ArcaneMelee]

Or run a WF arcane, a divine, a pale master, or an artificer.

But I don't want those nerfed, I want other builds to be just as much fun. And I want divines to have to spend less time watching health bars which isn't fun.

I'm actually getting curious - what build are you playing that lacks self-healing? I'm betting there's a way to get pretty good self-healing without sacrificing too much of your <whatever the build does best>, even without Silver Flame pots.

[somenewnoob]

Or run a WF arcane, a divine, a pale master, or an artificer.

But I don't want those nerfed, I want other builds to be just as much fun. And I want divines to have to spend less time watching health bars which isn't fun.

I hear ya. I've got a wf am, and a divine and they are a blast to play, solo or in groups with how self sufficient they are. With my fighter and barb it's always "with a hireling" if I want to solo because they just can't keep up with incoming damage with csw.

I do think something needs tweaking, I'm just not sure if it's more melee healing options, increased dr/AC usefullness, etc. Or a middle ground combination of both.