GRing an acrobat rogue

[Ausdoerrt]

So I've screwed up my acrobat rogue/monk build royally during a LR, so I want to get her back on her feet and playable as soon as I have enough TPs for a greater heart (used to be a 28-pt build). She's currently lv14. I'm more or less set on the rogue13/monk7 split. My biggest point of uncertainty is whether to take the THF feat line or not. Any other constructive suggestions are welcome. Tomes reflect what she currently has eaten, upgrades to that are conceivable but not anything above +2s.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Elf Female
(7 Monk \ 13 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 246
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 18
Will: 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    23
Dexterity            14                    20
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         12                    13
Wisdom               14                    15
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 4
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 4
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 4
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               2                    13
Bluff                 3                    14
Concentration         2                     4
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device        5                    25
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                  2                     2
Hide                  6                    30
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  7                    21
Listen                2                     2
Move Silently         6                    28
Open Lock             6                    29
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     1
Search                5                    23
Spot                  6                    24
Swim                  3                     6
Tumble                6                    32
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Cleric
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Improved Balance I
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I


Level 2 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Nimble Fingers
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Improved Cleric Dilettante I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II


Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking II
Enhancement: Improved Balance II
Enhancement: Improved Jump II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II


Level 8 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat I


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Trip
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II


Level 10 (Monk)
Enhancement: Static Charge
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery II


Level 11 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Improved Cleric Dilettante II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III


Level 13 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II


Level 14 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III


Level 16 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat II


Level 17 (Monk)
Enhancement: Improved Cleric Dilettante III
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III


Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Mobility
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I


Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing IV


Level 20 (Monk)
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
Enhancement: Adept of Wind

Fighter Dilettante version:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Elf Male
(7 Monk \ 13 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 256
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 17
Will: 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    25
Dexterity            14                    18
Constitution         14                    15
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom               14                    15
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 4
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 4
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 4
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               2                    12
Bluff                 3                     4
Concentration         2                    26
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device        5                    25
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                  2                     2
Hide                  2                     6
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  7                    34
Listen                2                     2
Move Silently         6                    26
Open Lock             6                    23
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     2
Search                5                    23
Spot                  6                    16
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                6                    32
Use Magic Device      3                    22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Fighter
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Rogue)


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness


Level 10 (Monk)


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Rogue)


Level 14 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)


Level 17 (Monk)


Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Improved Sunder


Level 19 (Monk)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Half-Elf Strategy (Sunder) I
Enhancement: Half-Elf Strategy (Sunder) II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: Unbalancing Strike
Enhancement: Winter's Touch
Enhancement: Adept of Rain
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat I
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Improved Balance I
Enhancement: Improved Balance II
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Jump II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
Enhancement: Half-Elf Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I

Can swap Cleave/GCleave for CE+Imp Trip, with according strategy enhancements (could ditch Helf Str. and Scroll Mastery).

[wax_on_wax_off]

I'd stay away from mobility and spring attack, they don't have a big enough impact most of the time to be worthwhile.

If I was going to make an acrobat at the moment then I'd design it around be competent at challenges. You'll never compete with assassin DPS in raids so instead stick to your strengths.

Some points:
1. Movement speed bonuses in challenges is very good
2. Knockdown immunity in challenges is very good
3. AC in challenges is quite good (if soloing non-epics)
4. Crowd Control in challenges is quite good
5. AoE Damage is good (from THF'ing line)

Feats are always the tricky point:
7 base: IC:B, Stunning Blow, Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Quickdraw/Sap/Hamstring
3 monk: Power Attack, Toughness, Dodge
1 half-elf: Fighter Dilettante (for +2 DC on trip, improved sunder, stunning blow, +1 strength if desired)

So, I guess the choice here is whether to go for THF'ing line or Tactics. I don't have much experience with Acrobats beyond playing an unarmed TWF'ing one while leveling (which was a blast) but taking THF'ing one way or another would definitely be my plan.

What do you really get from 7 monk? 10% Healing amp? Maybe drop it for 1 level of fighter for more HP and another feat?

[Ausdoerrt]

Well, I don't really enjoy farming challenges, so I'm not building this toon for that purpose. I did play an assassin rogue for a while, but found the acrobat to be more fun. I'm aware that acrobat couldn't out-compete assassin, but I'm hoping I could still achieve decent DPS with the attack speed bonuses and all. So outside of challenges, I'm wondering if glancing blows on a rogue is a bad idea. I do like playing in groups rather than solo.

What's Sap good for? I thought almost everything was immune to it, and the barbarian swinging a greatsword next to me would make it completely useless...

Monk 7 gets me Wholeness of Body, though I'm not 100% sure how useful it is.

Fighter dilly sounds good, and I could transfer a few points from WIS into STR or DEX. But, then I'd lose self-sufficiency and scroll-use of Cleric dilly. Worth it? It does seem like my combat feat DCs could use a boost, but then I'd lose all ability to self-heal beyond pots.

Oh, and something I completely forgot about when building this - is Wrack Construct worth it? If so, how much? (full line?)

[ltlFox]

you'd better decide what you gonna be unarmed or staff fu-fighter
if you for for staff - for wich you will have more speed (+20%)from acroII you also will have +dex dmg to sneak , it's not that hard to make/find staff with dex/dex - nat gann one as example - my point is - go away from str to dex - more saves , more AC , but so you will lose some DC in stun to possible point of no use , same with trip
with high dex/wis mon/rog(acro) you can easrly go to quite high AC , also imp uncanny dodge +8AC 30sec etc..
about sap - quite usefull - can apply effect to all sneakable targets with no saves & yes if near is barb with big axe it's useless , but if you see caster abit aside - you can go & switch him off

wrack construct just enhancment - can reoder it when need/want to try

[ltlFox]

& why here no UMD - if you take few last lvls as rog you can feel it to 23 rank
i see that you can use heal scrolls via deli cler , but here are still fireshield , or high umd shadow walker , halt undead for some cases - etc .. you may find umd usefull for many accasions
as example you are last standing , casting invis , shadow walker(50% striding 50% consealment) with knock immunities high ac , high saves - it's near immune mod - can just run & cast rise dead/heal , with heal scrolls +175hp from your w/s mastery

[Ausdoerrt]

Thanks for the input.

Well, for UMD, I have no points left to spare for CHA, and a UMD of 23 isn't exactly that high/useful. Something like 15% chance on Raise Dead iirc. Full Dilettante line gives no-fail Raise and 80(?)% Heal scrolls.

I'm actually looking to GR her to a STR build from a DEX build. She's a staff fighter, but to my knowledge there are only two DEX staves - Nat Gann and Breeze, the former being pretty darn weak, and the latter being a total pain to acquire. That's some really restrictive weapon choices, including inability to use GS or alchemical weapons effectively. And you're absolutely right, it makes Stunning Blow useless as well. Imp. Trip is still marginally useful. So really, going from DEX to STR is the biggest reason for this GR.

Sap sounds interesting, I might want to fit it in. Maybe ditch the 7th monk lvl and take fighter for the free feat. Anyone have any input on how useful Wholeness of Body actually is?

[Rydin_Dirtay]

Thanks for the input.

Well, for UMD, I have no points left to spare for CHA, and a UMD of 23 isn't exactly that high/useful. Something like 15% chance on Raise Dead iirc.

It would be way, way more than 23. You do know that, correct?
And don't you find Stoneskin scrolls, Fire Shield (Cold) scrolls, Arti scrolls, to be at all useful?

UMD is the most powerful skill choice you have amongst all of the skills available to you with that build.

[TheDearLeader]

Well, for UMD, I have no points left to spare for CHA, and a UMD of 23 isn't exactly that high/useful. Something like 15% chance on Raise Dead iirc. Full Dilettante line gives no-fail Raise and 80(?)% Heal scrolls.

I'm going to help you do math.

Charisma -
08 Base
02 Tome
06 Item/Augment Slot
02 Ship
=18 Charisma, +4 Bonus to UMD

UMD
23 Ranks
04 Charisma Bonus
04 Morale, Greater Heroism
03 Enhancement Bonus, Tier III Epic Spyglass/Epic Big Top
03 Competence, via Golden Cartouche/Persuasion Cannith Crafted
02 Luck, Blue Slot on Spyglass
=39, No-Fail UMD on Heal Scrolls.

That's not even a complete list. Please, reconsider your options on UMD. Look at the Wiki page on the matter, and it will give you both ideas about how UMD is useful, but also on how to raise it in ways I did not describe here.

[arroyo]

I'm going to help you do math.

+1 for making the world better.

Even if you you throw Epics outta table, there's always Skill Boost for rogues.

[Ausdoerrt]

I'm going to help you do math.

Thanks for the breakdown actually. I haven't looked into UMD enough, so I wasn't positive on what exactly I'll need to make it competent. That was helpful.

You'll also notice that the second build version I posted a little bit earlier, the one I think I've settled on (more or less), does invest in UMD, so I'm going to give it a shot.

[AMDarkwolf]

If you like, you can look at my build below. I do have gear to support it, so that might look daunting at first, but remember that a rog acrobat monk split can KEEP his sneaks on each and every mob he fights, agro or not, by abusing unbalancing strike. Even with low-ish wis(And in fire stance) it lands very reliably, and also it starts the chain for freezing the live blood, a paralyzing move that also grants SA AND 50% more dmg.

Also, while its tight to fit in, cleave and great cleave are just - freaking - amazing with the build. It, even vs single mobs, can make you attack twice as fast (Just time it so you do unbalancing, cleave, fists of dark, great cleave, unbalancing/cold vulnerable attack(Forgot name), finisher - repeat, and if you time the cleaves right, they don't break your attack chain, but also don't cause hitches)

And I agree, acrobat IS the fun to play. TBH once i started Atma on the path of the the big stick, I just never went back, and even my other toons seemed 'boring and dry' to play. I have to admit that the build is one of the most versatile, survivable, 'fast moving' character I have ever used. (And it just keeps getting better)

Also: NEVER think '23 umd isn't good so dump it' - UMD is one of the most useful, and powerful skills in ddo. remember too that 23 + 3(+6 item) +3 and 3 more (items, spare hand and big top) etc(and can get better items quite easily once u dip into epics) GH, etc you got PLENTY of umd to no-fail toss heal scrolls, 90% chance to resurrect(100% raise dead) etc. thinking UMD is useful because you can't get enough is one of the most common mistakes most ppl make. Even on 1/2 UMD classes 10-11 base UMD is VERY useful.

[Ausdoerrt]

Well, getting the gear is part of the fun, so it's not that big a deal. If the toon turns out OK, she'll get her gear in time.

Cleave/Gcleave sounds like an interesting idea, although it does see like it'd take a bit a practice to time all of that right. I wonder if it's worth ditching some of the THF feats to accomodate cleave feats...

Thanks for the info on unbalancing, too - I overlooked the fact that it makes em vulnerable to sneak. Million dollar question is - is it on a separate timer from Trip? Also, it says "uses trip modifiers" in description, does having Imp. Trip up the DC?

I also did look at your build, and since you took the time to respond, I'll abuse your attention :P So, a few questions. Why the full healing amp on a rogue? Healers would likely be over-healing you anyway while trying to keep up that 800hp melee. Also, any reason for water over air stance? Does air speed bonus not stack with acrobat speed bonus? (I guess it doesn't stack with Haste, but then it also gives 5% doublestrike). Finally, is there a point to having high balance once you get the Acrobat II PrE?

[AMDarkwolf]

because your using fire stance all the time for the extra amp from the bracers, the water stance lv 2 is to open up for unbalancing strike.

ANd it does say stuff about trip but i've always assumed that was that it can 'hit' mobs that are vulnerable to trip(like ive' never seen it land on a spider or ooze , but it lands almost 100% of the time on devils, giant skels, any caster type, etc - like i said in my build post, its a very funny attack, it has a reflex save, but orthons - who have abysmal dex/reflex-never seem to fail a save, but it lands pretty reliably on pretty much anything else you could expect to trip - about the other part of the question, i would have to test with a vertigo weapon...

And amp, as a rog is just a touch over 300% total, and the amp is there for YOU not for the divines... its just an added benefit when a divine can heal you (As the main tank) in elite VOD with a csw wand - the real reason is to self heal to 100% from 0% with a heal scroll, to drink a CSW pot between each 'encounter' and move on to the next, to get tick's of 20-25 a second from the monk heal thing, and seeing triple digits float up when standing in a radiant's aura. Also, the REAL reason my idea came into play as what he is, is the E-SE. getting 3, 6 or 9 (OR 3, 7, 10 if u can squeeze in that last bit of amp :P) per hit, while enjoying the added attack speed of acrobat and haste and haste boost, is very nice, and can keep me up though a whole dungeon. I Constantly get asked what my ac is during amrath quests since 'nothing ever hits you', which i just reply, 'trust me, they do hit me, they hit me a LOT'

And my suggestion would be to NOT drop/avoid the THF line. THose glancing blows make up quite a bit of the DPS lost by not being assassin. Cluster your mobs up, swing away, choose ONE mob(The caster, archer, etc) and put him down, while your glancing blows/cleaves soften the rest of the crew up to make easier kills after.

really though, while the class 'plays' much like a barb (Rush in, swing away) a lot of the play has to do with timing, what to do, when to do it, etc.

But ya, I do notice a difference on 2 mobs of the same thing, where when unbalancing lands on the first, he drops in2-3 hits, but he next guy takes that much more to take down. (SA + to hit and dmg is a HUGE boost when you get it, when u don't you notice)

[Ausdoerrt]

And my suggestion would be to NOT drop/avoid the THF line. THose glancing blows make up quite a bit of the DPS lost by not being assassin. Cluster your mobs up, swing away, choose ONE mob(The caster, archer, etc) and put him down, while your glancing blows/cleaves soften the rest of the crew up to make easier kills after.

The reason I asked was because the build is tight on feats (well, like just about any other build). Squeezing in Cleave/GCleave would require dropping two other feats... Working on that though. I think it'll come down to Cleave+GCleave vs CE+Imp Trip.

Also, the REAL reason my idea came into play as what he is, is the E-SE. getting 3, 6 or 9 (OR 3, 7, 10 if u can squeeze in that last bit of amp :P) per hit, while enjoying the added attack speed of acrobat and haste and haste boost, is very nice, and can keep me up though a whole dungeon. I Constantly get asked what my ac is during amrath quests since 'nothing ever hits you', which i just reply, 'trust me, they do hit me, they hit me a LOT'

I did do the same with a vampiric Shadow Staff, though it never occured to me to use healing amp. Although, I'd probably have to lose sneakiness (subtle backstabbing line) to fit it in. If it's as you say, and Unbalancing lands regularly, then it might be a good trade.

Oh, and how useful do you find the monk heal (wholeness of body)? What would you think about ditchng the 7th monk level for a fighter level (+1 feat)? I could ditch GTHF and take CE+Imp Trip. Or take Stunning Blow.

Ohh, and also, how's your rogue doing w/o any points in Concentration? Do glancing blows/fire stance make up for that?

Incorporating suggestions, added a new version (w/ Fighter dilly, cleave feats etc.) to the first post.

[AMDarkwolf]

1: Improved trip I miss, but not enough that I would lose a toughness, cleave, etc for it. Being that it takes an utterly pointless (for me) feat to get(CE) its not that much of a trade. Lose it, the -5 ac isn't a problem, besides you will be using PA anyways.

2: 1 fighter/6 monk vs 7 monk is a trade of 1 feat vs 10% more amp, wholeness, and (I think) the ice vulnerability move - its a fair trade either way, just depends what you want from the build.

3: KI Gain is fine, at 14 now, with nothing in conc I have 10 standing ki, and can (Usually) keep the strikes/fade going as long as I'm in combat. Also, subtle backstabbing was nice for a bit, but I dropped it fast, since when I want agro off that healer/caster/etc, I want it NOW. And if someone's 'tanking' other than me, hes a **** FINE tank, I won't be snaggin agro off him. Also much of the build relies on guard type gear, which means I want the agro. Sneakiness isn't something its good at, nor would you want to be

[Ausdoerrt]

I just wanted to say thank to everyone who contributed to the thread, my rogue successfully GRd today (heats on sale! woot!) as per second version of the build. Took her into the Elite Eyes of Stone to test her out, I'd say she's doing way better than she did in both of her prior versions. The cleave feats are awesome, if very button-mashy, and I'm still not too effective at using them, gotta practice the combination. Basically works like Cleave-Gcleave-Water-Dark-Sunder/Trip-Cleave-Gcleave-Water-Finisher, with Unbalancing added into the chain later. Makes attacks much faster than regular attack speed. Thanks for the suggestion, Darkwolf.

I do miss my cleric dilettante, at least for now, until I get my UMD up higher, and get the relevant UMD gear. I also found that, unfortunately, the Staff of Shadow Lesser Vampirism heals a static 1HP per hit, so I'll need to get my healing amp way up (200+) before it's relevant. So when I took her into Elite Eyes of Stone (she's 14, so at level), she wasn't healing up quite fast enough. She did die a few times, though only when surrounded/mobbed, I guess she's not ready for that kind of playstyle until higher levels and eSouleater. Or maybe I need to learn to avoid damage a little better. She passed on everything else with flying colors though, including traps (except for the part where I couldn't remember where exactly some of the boxes were and I dumped spot; ohwell).

As for subtle backstabbing, I didn't miss it much, since most things were disabled/stoned/dead before it could matter.

[AMDarkwolf]

abuse your fade(Its in the ninja spyI enhancement, hit the little + beside that in your list and drag it to your bar) that's 25% chance ANYTHING but a ghost will miss you. this DOES stack with blur and displace(So if blur-20% and fade 25%, means that you will only take dmg 60% of the time mobs 'physically' attack you, with displace/blind and fade, mobs will only hit you 37.5% of the time physically. If you have a radiance guard its a cheap 'displacement' against trash)

also remember triple water will 'stop' spell casters from casting (Only have I had it work vs trash/non orange names) and triple dark lowers fort, lowers healing received, and increases dark/negative damage on the target. So any combination of your fade, fists of dark, unbalancing strike(And if u got it to open ninjaspy) cold vulnerability will help you.

And I hope your toon is fun for you, imo thats the 'best' part about a monklobat.

[Ausdoerrt]

Fun it is, and has been before the GR, just more competent now, and a little more exciting.

Thing with all those monk abilities, they will no doubt come in very useful, but the way I've built the toon, she won't be getting those till lvl18 - I figured acrobat II is more worthwhile to get first. So I'll have to stick to acting a bit more rogey till then.

(I'm lv14, happen to be 10rog/4monk cause I didn't want to shell out the TP for hearts with pluses).

[Kinerd]

I see that you have already GRed, so I will just add my thoughts for the next people in your situation.

I would have gone unarmed TWF. You do get about 2.1x Str with quarterstaves, but you get 1.8x with unarmed rather than the usual 1.4x for TWF, so the gap there isn't much. Getting 1.8x instead of 1x sneak attack more than makes up for it. If you are at all interested in stunning, it lets you use Stunning Fist instead of the more limited Stunning Blow, or swap both Cleaves and get both.

I very strongly encourage you to get at least one rank of Human Versatility. 10% damage boost for 1 AP is just too good to pass up.

[Ausdoerrt]

I see that you have already GRed, so I will just add my thoughts for the next people in your situation.

I would have gone unarmed TWF. You do get about 2.1x Str with quarterstaves, but you get 1.8x with unarmed rather than the usual 1.4x for TWF, so the gap there isn't much. Getting 1.8x instead of 1x sneak attack more than makes up for it. If you are at all interested in stunning, it lets you use Stunning Fist instead of the more limited Stunning Blow, or swap both Cleaves and get both.

I very strongly encourage you to get at least one rank of Human Versatility. 10% damage boost for 1 AP is just too good to pass up.

Well, what you're talking about here is a completely different build, and there's already 2 or 3 threads in the subforum arguing it out. So I don't want to go there. I wanted to play acrobat, and acrobat flavor is quarterstaves. If I wanted to play ninja monk with a rogue splash, I probably would've built something different entirely.

I'm still deciding which tactical feats to settle on, for now I'm favoring sunder (though Trip and Stun are both nice too). There's no way in hell, however, that I'll swap out the cleaves in the forseeable future, because hitting multiple mobs with a weapon which can enervate/stone/paralyze (etc) is friggin' glorious.

Thanks for the suggestion on Versatility, I'll take a look at it.