No empower

[Kriogen]

Both Emp and Max always on.

Its like Power Attack for melee. Do I want to damage or just tickle.

Mana efficiency comes from AoE and "one turn advantage". I don't want to waste mana on a single CR0.25 kobold, I want to nuke a small armada with a single spell. And I don't want to recast it. Maybe "recast" is mana efficient, but its "time". I mean I could drop dead in that time or I'll take damage and then have to heal myself. Heal is also mana.

[nivarch]

I can imagine that turning Empower off for DOTs makes sense for some long endurance fights where you run out of SP. Maybe elite Shroud?

Infant

On endurance fight "your" SP efficiency matters, but making the fight as short as possible do matter too, mainly to save Healers SP/melee actions boosts.
You have to find the right balance between mana dumping and going for the most SP efficient method.

Knowing that Harry has about 60 cold resist on elite, if you cast Niac, you'll need to have empower on (at least on Niac) or it will become *very* SP inefficient.

Note that for fights longer than 3 minutes, you really should turn empower on when you run eardweller.

[stoerm]

To answer your survey.

1st life capped WF PM:
- Empower and Quicken on always only for some spells (<3 Turbine). Situationally put on for all spells.
- Maximize and Heighten always on.

Especially since I solo quite a bit, my own SP conservation is more important than quick DPS. With cheap self heals using the aura, having to kill quickly is not usually an issue.

I think it's situational, so loving the "there is only one true way" tone in some of the posts.

[Crann]

Another vote for Empower....each character I play that casts turns it on and leaves it on. A few situatuonal spells I customize to turn off Empower and Max (Soundburst)

Something that hasn't been mentioned, and seems to get overlooked in the Melee DPS conversations from time to time, is that your DPS statistic is far more important against bosses then it is against trash. Against trash it means 3 hits or casts instead of 4, it is rarely as big of a deal as what happens when you get to the boss.

I like the Power attack analogy, but I'd like to think of it as a Barb who doesn't use take Frenzy because he wants to conserve hit points.

You save hitpoints by ending the fight faster. Same goes for spell points.

[korsat]

on my wiz pm:
empower and maximize ALWAYS on, extended and quicken off only for mass buffs in the beginning of the quest, heighten off only when i'm tanking and i need some negative energy burst without wasting too many sp.

[OsOscarius]

Bah, I own two of those flawless dragonshard and the plat cost for a feat change isn't crippling.
Will try out empower for a couple of days and see how I like it.

Will most probably miss wraith form though, even if it's mostly for claw.

[Candela90]

Im honestly not using empower, Not on wizzy and not on fvs.
On wizzy i would probably just go out of mana really quickly, and on fvs i have hard time fitting it in.
So.. yeah. think its not worth it so much.
Especially u get an epic dagger from Crystal cove with 3 uses of free maximize. Really usefull while DoTing a boss and all.
But on a sorc I would never drop empower.

[stoerm]

Just because the Master Transmuter's staff doesn't give a +Lore on it doesn't mean it's bad. You don't need to be at the peak of DPS on a PM as you level. Hell, you certainly don't need to be at cap. Instant death spells are going to be your bread and butter. Damage spells are for when they're on cooldown and boss fights.

Discuss in relation to requiring Empower on a PM.

[pHo3nix]

To answer your survey.

1st life capped WF PM:
- Empower and Quicken on always only for some spells (<3 Turbine). Situationally put on for all spells.
- Maximize and Heighten always on.

Especially since I solo quite a bit, my own SP conservation is more important than quick DPS. With cheap self heals using the aura, having to kill quickly is not usually an issue.

I think it's situational, so loving the "there is only one true way" tone in some of the posts.

There is only 1 true way of running quests as fast as possible, and that is with maximize+empower on Sure, you can complete almost anything without metas or running around with mastertouch and a greataxe, but those don't seem 2 efficient ways of getting the job done

Soloing on a caster means even more sp: you are the only one in the quest, so everything is attacking you and refilling your sp. It's when you group that torc+conc opp are less valuable, cause the aggro is on other people too

[danotmano1998]

Not taking the feat that makes your damage increase 25% (or 50% depending on how you look at it) is a bit silly in my eyes.

I'm not saying that it's absolutely mandatory for all casters..
But on a sorceror who has all those lovely SLA's and the sp cost is a flat amount?

What possible reason could justify throwing away all that extra damage?
This is an honest question!
I'd love to hear a good solid reason why..

Here's a solid number...
Say your polar ray does a very modest 1K damage on a hit. You'd be effectively throwing away 250 points of damage right there. And that doesn't even count crits!!

There's a certain satisfaction when you land that ray on a fire elemental and do over 3 thousand damage. Maybe it's just me, but I like my big numbers. A lot.
Wouldn't trade them for the world.

And then if you decide to invest in the reduction of the metas (AP's) and have a couple of pieces of efficient metamagic gear, you're really only going to save a few measly spell points per cast. Having a field of dead enemies and an empty blue bar is far better than 1/2 the party dead and a nearly full blue bar. But maybe that's just me. (And I have yet to run out on my sorceror, even without a torc!)

My entire purpose as a sorceror is to nuke, nuke, nuke. And when that's done, repeat. Anything that reduces your effectiveness in the primary role of your class is not a good choice in my eyes.

[Raoull]

Hmmm... on my Archmage (necro/conj) I've been waffling on what I wanted my last feat to be. I'm considering:

Greater Conjure Focus (yes, I realize I can't take that at 20 and would need to featswap first): I do love the web SLA, and +1 DC seems worthwhile

Enchantment Focus: Hypno SLA seems good, and my Enchant DCs are a bit low

Empower: moar dots


I was leaning toward Enchantment Focus, figuring the extra SLA would be not only minor cheap CC, but using it on guys in my disco balls would dramatically improve my DCs (1 for feat, 3 for SLA debuff).

I was thinking that DC based stuff (crowd control & instakill) was my main focus so I should keep down that path... but this thread makes me wonder.

I imagine I'd only use it for DoTTing bosses, so I wasn't figuring on taking it. But... I guess as a melee I'd never not take a feat that gave +25% damage (only thing vaguely comparable is first TWF feat)... so I guess I'm now leaning toward empower.

[mrphlegm]

Get yellow/red DA and drop that acid blast/rain wiping everything- max/emp to make sure. can easily hold aggro against barbs with dots and necrotic/polar nuking with my new PM, or even just dots. leveling wf earth savant is just lol

[Kathul]

Running a 2nd life WF PM.

I always keep empower on, for everything.

Why? Because it is effective, especially when i am spamming my necro heals along PM bolt and burst ( which hit for 150 to 400 )

[Spiffyspiffy]

Not taking empower on a wizard has exceeded the threshold of "curious build choice" to "bad design"

Not taking it on a cleric, fvs, or sorcerer has reached "put on do not group list"

[Postumus]

Always take empower for my sorcs. Why would I possibly not want another 25% damage boost? Especially for SLAs?

Usually take empower for fvs and cleric.

I use it as necessary and for spells where the SP cost justifies its use.

[sirgog]

Empower and Maximize is only 25% over Maximize, though, is the point. Is 80% spell DPS really "mostly useless"?

Wizards have a lot of feats but they don't have that many, especially first lifers that need Spell Pen. For instance, my wizard went:
Mental Toughness - AM pre-req
Heighten, SF/GSF Enchant, Spell Pen, Greater SP - CC
SF/GSF Necro (also Spell Pens) - instant kills
SF Conjuration - Web SLA
Maximize - DPS
Toughness, Quicken - stay alive

Which would you drop for Empower? I'm not even sure Empower is the next most useful feat I would take to be honest.

Power Attack adds a lot less than 25% DPS on melees, and like Empower is not always useful. Yet every melee takes it, including most characters that only melee some of the time.

The SP saving from killing a boss or resilient mob quicker and thus needing less healing, less rebuffing and the like often makes up for the extra SP cost of Empower. In fights where it will not - just turn the feat off.

In your case - I'd drop an Enchantment Focus. Heck, I'd drop both Enchantment Focuses and take Insightful Reflexes.

One more thing - on bosses with high elemental resistances, Empower is a lot more than 25% more DPS. A 480 damage Maximized Polar Ray does 255 damage through Turigulon's 225 cold resist. A 600 damage Max-Empped Polar Ray does 375 damage - 45-50% more than the 'max only' one. The gap is even bigger on Niac's Biting Cold, which ticks for 360-225 = 135 Max-Empped, but only 290-225=65 Maxxed. Adding Empower here doubles the damage of your second best damage-per-mana spell in this encounter.

[WielderofGigantus]

Not taking it on a cleric, fvs, or sorcerer has reached "put on do not group list"

Why would I take Empower on my cleric when Empowered Healing is so much better?

[Crann]

Why would I take Empower on my cleric when Empowered Healing is so much better?

Blade Barrier
Divine Punishment
Cometfall
Holy Smite

[SirValentine]

Not taking empower on a wizard has exceeded the threshold of "curious build choice" to "bad design"

Not taking it on a cleric, fvs, or sorcerer has reached "put on do not group list"

Interesting. It seems to me a far worse crime to fail to take it on a Wiz, who has 5 bonus feats to play with, than on a Clr or FvS, who are extremely feat-starved. Could much more easily see a Clr or FvS only having Maximize and not Empower, even though personally I'd prefer to have both.

Or they might not be specced for nuking at all. My Wis-dumped melee Clr didn't have Empower or Maximize. It's not like you need either for healing.

[goodspeed]

I actually had a sorc ask me why a ball of ice costed about 70 sp. I said because it's hightened, it's maxed, and it's empowered.

Then he asked me why I took empower. I said because I like to see the room die in one click instead of 2....

On a wiz I'd still take empower. Mainly for as said before their are 2 spells that should always be there. Niacs and eldar. Even on a fire based sorc taking a hit to cold dmg and spell lvs, niacs would still be great dmg against the purple.

A wizard has the ability to become anything with preperation. They can cc, they can dmg, they can instakill. To rely on one or 2 is cheating yourself. It's not wrong but don't be ****ed when your passed up for some things.

Like harry. Most common real type raid. I couldn't see any reason for a cc or insta kill. Especially in part 4. Jesus **** pales killing all the devils in 1 swoop with all hell breaking loose.

Now a wiz with specc'd cold or lightning casting niacs and eldars is invaluable. It doesn't matter if cold isn't maxed, or that harry has resistance to it. It'll still output a great number. With max and empower you can fill those rolls. Empower is just another situation feat.