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  1. #1
    Community Member
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    Oct 2011
    Posts
    57

    Default Graceful smasher - feedback requested

    Working out possible options for my 2nd TR, and I'm beginning to like the look of this Tempest/Frenzied Berserker build, but I'm having some issues with it.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 True Neutral Half-Orc Male
    (6 Barbarian \ 2 Rogue \ 12 Ranger) 
    Hit Points: 280
    Spell Points: 140 
    BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
    Fortitude: 17
    Reflex: 15
    Will: 5
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             20                    29
    Dexterity            12                    15
    Constitution         16                    18
    Intelligence         12                    14
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma              6                     6
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               5                     6
    Bluff                -2                    -2
    Concentration         3                     4
    Diplomacy            -2                    -2
    Disable Device        5                    25
    Haggle                2                     2
    Heal                 -1                    -1
    Hide                  1                     2
    Intimidate           -2                    -2
    Jump                  9                    13
    Listen               -1                    -1
    Move Silently         1                     2
    Open Lock             5                    21
    Perform              n/a                   n/a
    Repair                1                     2
    Search                5                    25
    Spot                  3                    22
    Swim                  8                    12
    Tumble                2                     3
    Use Magic Device      2                    21
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 2 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    
    
    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    
    
    Level 4 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 5 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 6 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Dodge
    
    
    Level 7 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 8 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    
    
    Level 9 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Mobility
    
    
    Level 10 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 11 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 12 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
    
    
    Level 13 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 14 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 15 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 16 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 17 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct
    
    
    Level 18 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
    
    
    Level 19 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost I
    Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost II
    Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker I
    Enhancement: Orcish Fury I
    Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
    Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
    Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III
    Enhancement: Orcish Power Rage I
    Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
    Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance II
    Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
    Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution II
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Improved Trap Sense I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Improved Trap Sense II
    Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    Tempest attack speed weapons with Frenzy's viciousness and 40 STR before equipment or raid buffs is applied (29 + 7Rage + 2Frenzy + 2Ram's Might), Power attack giving +10 damage, Stunning blow with a very solid DC, level 12 Ranger spells for utility, trapmonkey, and a basic UMD.

    Some obvious problems though: Feat starvation. I can't afford Toughness without giving up Stunning blow or improved critical, all the other feats are requirements for the prestige enhancements, which leaves me at horrible hp for the self-damage I'll be taking. I'll be using Scimitars as well, since there's certainly no room for Kopeshes in the current build.

    So I come to the internet for help. Is there any way to change things to fix this? Can the hp weakness be compensated for with equipment? (When raged, I do have 340 hp pre-equipment...) How much am I hurting myself abandoning the kopesh as opposed to, say, IC:Slashing?

    Worst comes to worst, I can salvage the build by sacrificing UMD, trapmonkey, 1d6+3 SA, and skills in general and replacing the 2 Rogue levels with 2 Fighter levels, getting the oh so useful +2 feats.

  2. #2
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    57

    Default

    For reference, comparison, the build I'd try if going 2 Fighter instead:

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 True Neutral Half-Orc Male
    (2 Fighter \ 6 Barbarian \ 12 Ranger) 
    Hit Points: 370
    Spell Points: 140 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 21
    Reflex: 12
    Will: 5
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             20                    30
    Dexterity            12                    15
    Constitution         18                    20
    Intelligence          6                     8
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma              6                     6
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               1                     2
    Bluff                -2                    -2
    Concentration         4                     5
    Diplomacy            -2                    -2
    Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
    Haggle               -2                    -2
    Heal                 -1                    -1
    Hide                  5                    21
    Intimidate           -2                    -2
    Jump                  9                    27
    Listen               -1                    -1
    Move Silently         5                    25
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform              n/a                   n/a
    Repair               -2                    -1
    Search               -2                    -1
    Spot                  3                    22
    Swim                  5                    10
    Tumble                n/a                   n/a
    Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a
    
    Level 1 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 2 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 4 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
    
    
    Level 5 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility
    
    
    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
    
    
    Level 7 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    
    
    Level 8 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 9 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
    
    
    Level 10 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 11 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 12 (Barbarian)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    
    
    Level 13 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 14 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 15 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 16 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 17 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 18 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct
    Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
    
    
    Level 19 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 20 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
    Enhancement: Orcish Fury I
    Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
    Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
    Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III
    Enhancement: Orcish Power Rage I
    Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
    Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance II
    Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
    Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution II
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness II

  3. #3
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Mar 2010
    Posts
    5,087

    Default

    I think a bigger problem than the low health will be the low to-hit, especially in the first build. -10 PA is no joke. Epic Malicia is a bit of a silly, pointless example, but still: 68 AC. You're looking at:
    19 BAB
    -4 TWF
    -10 PA
    +2 favored enemy
    +1 Tempest 2
    +15 Str bonus
    +5 enhancement
    +2 competence
    =
    30
    You'll probably have more, for instance 3 from 6 Str item, 3 from ship buffs, but we're talking about small increments here that are not going to get anywhere close to 68. Especially for a build with Frenzy vicious and sneak attack dice, trading 1 to hit for 1 damage might not be a good idea. Of course you'd turn PA off for high-AC mobs, but I don't think you'd be very happy spending 9 AP on something you're going to have turned off so much.

    I also think you would get a lot more use out of Improved Sunder than Stunning Blow. For the 15 seconds of cooldown on SB you'll either be using a weak weapon or hemorrhaging DPS swapping weapons at 1.2 seconds a pop. Especially with two sets of boosts, Improved Sunder can very easily increase your overall attack rate, reduce enemy AC and fort, and with Tempest 2 you're very likely to get double Traumas on every press. Best of all it works on bosses.

  4. #4
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinerd View Post
    I think a bigger problem than the low health will be the low to-hit, especially in the first build. -10 PA is no joke. Epic Malicia is a bit of a silly, pointless example, but still: 68 AC. You're looking at:
    19 BAB
    -4 TWF
    -10 PA
    +2 favored enemy
    +1 Tempest 2
    +15 Str bonus
    +5 enhancement
    +2 competence
    =
    30
    You'll probably have more, for instance 3 from 6 Str item, 3 from ship buffs, but we're talking about small increments here that are not going to get anywhere close to 68. Especially for a build with Frenzy vicious and sneak attack dice, trading 1 to hit for 1 damage might not be a good idea. Of course you'd turn PA off for high-AC mobs, but I don't think you'd be very happy spending 9 AP on something you're going to have turned off so much.

    I also think you would get a lot more use out of Improved Sunder than Stunning Blow. For the 15 seconds of cooldown on SB you'll either be using a weak weapon or hemorrhaging DPS swapping weapons at 1.2 seconds a pop. Especially with two sets of boosts, Improved Sunder can very easily increase your overall attack rate, reduce enemy AC and fort, and with Tempest 2 you're very likely to get double Traumas on every press. Best of all it works on bosses.
    Well, with 12 levels of ranger, my favored enemy bonus would be +8 to hit (becomes +6 at level 10 instead of +2, and I have two enhancements for another +2), and yeah, I don't think anyone would use PA on her (+10 more), +3 from +6STR item, +3 from ship buffs, +2 heroism potion, +1 haste, +2 flanking, so I'd expect to have at least a 57 to-hit vs her, hitting on a 11+ without any exceptional STR, epic/bane weapons, madstone, or external buffs (bard song, recitation, greater heroism, sunders, destruction). Not good, but that's still hitting half the time on the highest ac-mob around before taking into account other party members or epic equipment.

    That being said, yeah +10 PA might be a little overkill sometimes, but I'm hoping once geared up, I'll be using it more often than not (and the enhancement points aren't a concern at all, this build is not even close to starved on points. I don't know what I'd take in its place). Also, dropping stunning blow for improved sunder (which I'm a fan of when I have the feats for it) would definitely help on bosses, but I feel that would mean I wouldn't be able to help much at all on epic trash, which I'm not sure I'd like.

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