Drop Rates & Older Content

[Rhysem]

I support this. I'm here to play DDO, not play miller-from-the-dark-ages-grinding-wheat-his-whole-life.

Its actually really funny to compare this drop mechanic (very MMO, very 3rd ed) with the new drop "mechanic" in 4th ed. 4th, which is accused left right and center of being MMOified (a fair accusation), has directions to the DM to give their players stuff they want. Not random trash off some table, but actual useful important equipment.

I would go so far as to say that like welfare epics in some other games, content that's >6 months old needs the drop rate to rise,special list on the 10s completions. >12 months needs still higher drop rate and the 5s completions and >18-24 months in age needs to be "20th run loot table every single run." If they do a major revamp on the quest, feel free to reset the timer.

I'll admit to being a raid mechanic hater though. I'd much rather have single-party content than raids.

[Niv-mizzet]

I would go so far as to say that like welfare epics in some other games, content that's >6 months old needs the drop rate to rise,special list on the 10s completions. >12 months needs still higher drop rate and the 5s completions and >18-24 months in age needs to be "20th run loot table every single run." If they do a major revamp on the quest, feel free to reset the timer.

I have similar feelings to this. I can understand the hot new shiny thing being rare and hard to acquire, but the old dusty ones?

If there is any single part of this game that I will say is a design flaw, it is loot that requires running a quest until you get no xp from it.

And due to the nature of equipment in DDO, its actually not that rare to have items in your build that are important to your build. Its not like old EQ or something where you're just wanting a cloak with 120 hp/mana 20 to stats and 20 to resists, when you already have one thats 100 hp/mana 15 to stats and resists. You wouldn't hear calls to arms about loot drop rates if the loot was just marginally better, but essentially did the same thing.

Nay, the equipment in this game is often very close to unique and irreplaceable. Examples: Madstone boots: where else ya gonna get madstone from suckah?, Torc: gotta get your kinetic energy on, and this is your only choice that isn't a high level rune arm, Bauble: 300ish stacking sp. Super important, super helpful, super YOU AINT GONNA GET ONE rare.

If I was elected president, a chest, once ransacked, will drop a guaranteed named loot on the next pull, then goes to its 'dropping nothing' setup. Raids, all items every 20th. Older quests and raids have drop rates to their named items increased more the older they are, and even moreso if they are rarely run. Niv for 2012!!!

[BOgre]

And while we're at it, something needs to be done about Sands Rares too. Been farming Yurrugh for Thornlord just about a year now, never seen one. And that's not even mentioning the epic upgrade grind I'll face if I ever do get one. Sands has some very nice loot hiding in it, but grinding it is pretty un-fun.

[IllOracle]

Yes.. 20 raid runs should manifest a reward list containing all named items found in that quest's loot tables.
I wants a Torc/DCBracers!
/signed!!!

[Sarisa]

And while we're at it, something needs to be done about Sands Rares too. Been farming Yurrugh for Thornlord just about a year now, never seen one. And that's not even mentioning the epic upgrade grind I'll face if I ever do get one. Sands has some very nice loot hiding in it, but grinding it is pretty un-fun.

The explorer area items are more common from the eDQ raid chest than they are from the rares in the explorer zone. You have around a 26% chance of getting a shard, an 8% chance of a raid item, a 16% chance of an explorer area base item, and about a 1% chance of getting one of three types of tomes.

[grayham]

Sorry to be all philosophical here, but doesn't it all come down to chance and perspective? Ying/yang/swings/roundabouts? We're quick to complain when things aren't dropping, I'm on 40+ claw runs with no gloves seal, but we quickly forget the good luck we have. I was fortunate enough to get Levik's/madstone boots quickly (5-6 runs) in the respective raids so never run them now.

I'm sorry your friend left, I hope it was more than just being disheartened about loot drops though.

[KillEveryone]

Every raid 20th list should include every single named item from that raid.

[brunothetav]

What about a median alternative, 20th drops a random 50% of the list, 40th drops the other 50%?

Vordax

If not the 20th, I think at least the 40th should have 100% of the list.

[BOgre]

The explorer area items are more common from the eDQ raid chest than they are from the rares in the explorer zone. You have around a 26% chance of getting a shard, an 8% chance of a raid item, a 16% chance of an explorer area base item, and about a 1% chance of getting one of three types of tomes.

so, 16% chance of an explorer item, times the 3% chance of that being the item you're looking for (32? explorer named items), equals a .48% chance... 1 in 200. Odds like that still mean you could run 1000 eDQ's and NOT see the item you're looking for. I appreciate that drops should be rare(ish) but as has been said, I'd like to know that I'm working towards something, rather than at the mercy of blind luck, with the possibility of NEVER achieving the goal.

[Gorbadoc]

It just strikes me as odd that drop rates are so low in older content as opposed to new content.
[details]

This. My suspicion is that the devs are at least sympathetic to this problem, and that's why they make items reasonably obtainable when they design brand new content with brand new loot drop rates.

I wonder what holds the devs back from raising drop rates for these older quests? Maybe they're afraid it will feel like a slap in the face to those who DID farm torqs/chattering rings/etc. if the items become easier to get?

[azrael4h]

This. My suspicion is that the devs are at least sympathetic to this problem, and that's why they make items reasonably obtainable when they design brand new content with brand new loot drop rates.

I wonder what holds the devs back from raising drop rates for these older quests? Maybe they're afraid it will feel like a slap in the face to those who DID farm torqs/chattering rings/etc. if the items become easier to get?

Probably. I remember the whining about easy buttons and how the noobs are ruining the world when Reaver's Refuge gained a means to crunch runes to something else. And when the 3 for 1 Desert scroll turn in was put in. And when we called for a raise shrine in VoN6 after Velah was dead. And when Crystal Cove came in with it's easy-to-acquire epic loot. And with the high drop rates on the Lordsmarch stuff, and Madness chains' stuff, among other newer chains. And... well you get the point.

Shroud was done right in this regard; even if I don't get the replacement large shrapnels that the bank ate a few weeks ago (grrr...) I have 6 active characters, two of which are first lifers with no greensteel. Even a wipe, so long as I make it through part 3, has some value to me. VoN? An hour's run or more, for nothing, every time. DQ, 15-30mins, and again, nothing. At least my higher level Fighter has several items I want from that, at least as an interim item. So I have an even higher chance of not pulling the stuff I want! Oddly, my Sorcerer has no troubles pulling Marilith Chains from there. I've made a lot of fighters and barbarians very happy in my DQ runs as a Sorcerer. Forget HoX and VoD, those are rather rarely run, and even more rarely completed in the case of HoX. VoD seems to fail before ever setting foot into the Sub.

Needless to say, I rarely bother with VoN any more, even though I'd dearly love to farm VoN5 for xp on both my Bard and Monk (both are 12). This was even before switching shifts at work, which puts me at odds with peak hours on DDO. I still run DQ, but that one is fast and can be shortmanned usually. The only raid that I continue to run seriously is the Shroud.

[MysticElaine]

OMG,

So, I was really worried about getting my gloves from Titan from my 20th list after reading the horror stories. I had almost gotten them passed to me on a roll, but someone ninja'd them from me (basically, the person was saying he was gonna pass them to me but at the same moment someone else rolled 2 pts higher. In my mind I saw it as me seeing something shiny in a chest, was reaching down for it, heard a noise and looked away for a sec, and when I looked back, it was gone )

Anyways, I was really praying and crossing everything I had that I would get it in my 20th reward list. My 20th reward list had EVERYTHING. I was so shocked and excited I got the gloves, I forgot to screen shot it, but off the top of my head I had Battle coin, Belt of brute strength, Chattering ring, Gyroscopic boots, 7 fingered gloves, Titan's fist (rune arm), and I am pretty sure I had some sort of armor and maybe a cloak.

[TheDjinnFor]

Before I get into this discussion, let me tell a short story about a friend who is now quitting the game and moving on.

I have a friend that has been trying to aquire a chattering ring for quite some time now. Her burning desire for this item has surpassed actual need for it to 'I must have it if only to not let the item beat me'... Well it recently defeated her. You see she is so disappointed because she has 100 titan completions, each run had at least 7 people, and has never even seen the item. Thats 100 completions * 7(minimum) participants + 5 special '20th' lists for a total of 705 shots at the chattering ring, and she has never even seen it .... She is convinced that it was removed from the game or its bugged, either way she lost hope....

I understand that the drop rates for say the titan, dq, velah, reaver, abbot etc., are so low because once upon a time these were the be all end all of end game conent. There was no TR, there was no epic, heck the cap wasn't even 20. Should the drop rates remain abysmal or should they be altered in some way so that level 20's aren't farming level 10~14 content for items instead of running end-game stuff? I think the drop rates should be adjusted. It appears that there is some support for this since they recently increased the Wizard King item drop rates.

Would it be a terrible thing if the drop rates from content that is not considered end-game or near end game be raised by a factor of how far below 20 it is? For example the Titan Raid is level 12. 20-12 is 8, so take the current drop rate and multiply it by a (8 *#) * current drop rate = new drop rate (where the # is a factor to be detemined or even removed). The same would apply to say level 10 content and would be 20-10 = 10 therefore (10 * #) * current drop rate = new drop rate. Apply this 'formula' for all content level 16 and lower.


Now maybe this isn't the way to go about it, but I do think something should be done.

Just my little suggestion, thanks for reading it.

The chattering ring drop rate isn't low, your friend is just very, very, very unlucky. For a party of 12 you have around a 11.5% chance of seeing at least one dropped per completion (drop rate is roughly 1% per person), and a 46% chance of seeing it in the 20th list (drop rate is 6% per choice, and it offers you roughly 10 choices).

So the chances of never ever seeing it in 100 runs is around 0.00404%.

[JOTMON]

I'm a big fan of the Crystal Cove loot mechanic.
Run it enough, and you WILL make that item you want. Each completion gets you another few hundred items closer to the goal.

You make steady progress provided you don't fail the quest. The feeling of making some progression towards your goal is what keeps me running it. The items are good. The loot mechanic is better, IMO.

Now the epic loot? Abysmal. You have exactly the same chance to get an item running it the 5 thousandth time as you did the first. You may NEVER see the thing you're doing the quest for. If you could trade tokens for the uber loot, THAT would be something. As it is, it's just a crapshoot. A crapshoot that has worse odds than winning the powerball, in some cases.

Alternately, the chance for unique drops on a quest could even increment slightly with each completion. Or maybe alter the end rewards so that each 20 gives you the 1/2 of the unique items, and the 40th gives you the option of all the rest, so you know that if you run 40 of quest "X" you WILL get that Torc.

/Agreed

The random chest drop mechanic is terrible for those of us with bad luck.

60 Titan runs and no chattering ring / (seeing a pug who we brought in after everything was cleared and prepped for the final zone in) get it and pull it on a class that had minimal use for it and I was f... it, i am done with Titan, and I haven't run it in almost a year.
When people ask me if they should ge the Titan pack. guess what my response is...

At least with ingredients I know once I get enough ingredients I can craft the item I want for the toon I want it on and not have BTC items drop on toons that have no use for it and end up giving it away.

Would also like to see an option on 50th incremental epic(include level 20+quests like TOD/LOB) runs give a static drop for quests that have the chance of dropping them..
A Full list of +3/+4 BTA(quest appropriate) Tomes and a chance at unbound tomes.
After 80 TOD runs and no +4 tomes on the list I ended up taking a Heroic Deeds as my best end reward choice.

[Esserbe]

Older content drop rates should definitely be overhauled, and so should raid 20th lists. I do not find it unreasonable that you might have to run 20 times to get the specific item you want, thus a minimum of 3 months, but I do find it very, very, very, very unreasonable that you CAN run 40, 60, 80 and 100 times and NOT get a single specific item you want.

DDO is not supposed to be about grind, so let's change the really grindy parts to be more reasonable.