Let's Talk: Enhancements!

[Failedlegend]

What ads?

Sorry I should have explained better, DnD has never really been designed to be balanced so perfect imbalance fits it better. I guess your definition of balance is different than the general MMO term balance so good on yeah I'm just used to assuming otherwise

[Chai]

You seem to be mistaking balance for similarity. You can have kung fu pandas that are immune to anything, which **** golden bricks, and which shoot laser beams from their eyes, dealing 5K DPS. Introduce them as a playable race and every powergamer is gonna luv you for that. In the end every1 will run around either with one of the Kung fu pandas, or will be left behind with one of the remaining flavor builds, eventually to be nuked into oblivion.

Balance == different (specialiced) classes with individual strengths and weaknesses == good.
Imbalance == singular classes being superior to others in a sense that they get boosts while not getting any significant limitations or restrictions. Horcs and Helfs are good examples of that in the mellee realm.

Btw. videos that force you to watch 3+ mins of ads are **** anyway.

No so for a D&D based game. Most games rely on class balance where each class does X DPS and has Y offense + Z defense as a potential and the larger one of those 3 variables gets, the smaller the other two get.

This is not how D&D works.

D&D is a content balance games and not a class balance game. Its up to the DM to throw a relatively equal amount of content at the party where each player can be the one that contributes the most/least, etc. Example:

Encounter 1: Bunch of ghouls - these are dangerous in low level D&D because they can paralyze on hit, and that can wipe a party rather quickly if people start failing saves. No matter, the sorc tosses one fireball into their midst and roasts them.

Encounter 2: Iron golem - that cocky sorc who won the first encounter with a single spell isnt so confident when he sees his fireball bounce off the golem with no effect. Thats right when the fighter remembers he had an adamantine weapon made a few modules back, fishes it out of his bag of holding, and begins smashing the golem to little bits.

The major issue with this games balance is that too many encounters favor casters. Mobs that are invulnerable to most magic in D&D are only given DR to it in DDO, and can still be killed with magic easier than they can be killed in melee. Its not a matter of having every toon do similar DPS or have similar defense to balance them out. Its a matter of having content that favors different archtypes, rather than the majority of all content favoring the same archtype.

[-Avalon-]

You seem to be mistaking balance for similarity. You can have kung fu pandas that are immune to anything, which **** golden bricks, and which shoot laser beams from their eyes, dealing 5K DPS. Introduce them as a playable race and every powergamer is gonna luv you for that. In the end every1 will run around either with one of the Kung fu pandas, or will be left behind with one of the remaining flavor builds, eventually to be nuked into oblivion.

Balance == different (specialiced) classes with individual strengths and weaknesses == good.
Imbalance == singular classes being superior to others in a sense that they get boosts while not getting any significant limitations or restrictions. Horcs and Helfs are good examples of that in the mellee realm.

Btw. videos that force you to watch 3+ mins of ads are **** anyway.

I think you are using the cooking ingredient version of balance... Most games focus on balancing archetypes so that each one can solo just as effectively as the other (or at least that is what they try to do)... because players no longer work as a team in most MMOs until a raid comes up, then expect players who NEVER worked as a team - to work as a team =/

D&D, otoh, has always been a team game. Everyone shines at one point or another (or is supposed to)... It is bad DMing to create content that only allows one section of players to shine, in this case though, DM = Dev... They have created a great deal of content at mid-levels that focuses on making casters into Gods. At low levels, melees shine... at high levels, not really anyone shines though... everyone is pretty much even.

So balance in D&D = People have equal ability and responsibility to ensure the team succeeds. This is why in games like WoW, priests were at one time the way to DPS, at another time, Rogues... In D&D, rogues very often are mediocre at DPS due to lack of ability to SA higher level mobs (fortification), therefore are helping the group a TON by just removing traps (something no other game has really gotten done) and Clerics are primarily the healing for the group... In WoW, at one point, PALADINS were the best healers... Yeah, that is balance...

Should Clerics be able to do as much damage as a barbarian in rage? NO, should a melee be able to hit 20 enemies at once on a regular basis? NO.. Each team member has its own place, its own role. Balance in D&D means "Perfect Imbalance" because no character should be able to solo 10th lvl content on elite at 10th-12th lvl. They SHOULD need a group. All these other games are casual solo games with a good chat system (think ICQ/Yahoo Chat with a single player game attached)...

D&D is much more about socializing, becoming friends, building comradery, etc, and going to kick the tails of a bunch of bad guys together. Balance here, means making each member just as important to the team as the next member.

[BossOfEarth]

The new enhancements system will not be up for some time. We're planning on giving it an extended beta on Lamannia before going live with it - much longer than we traditionally have with our game systems.

Bravo! I don't know what you've got planned but take your time. Rome didn't invent bacon in a day!

[kingfisher]

Bravo! I don't know what you've got planned but take your time. Rome didn't invent bacon in a day!

yeah take as long as you want.

anyone taking bets yet as to when?

[-Avalon-]

yeah take as long as you want.

anyone taking bets yet as to when?

About when they add Duskblades?

[goodoldxelos]

They have created a great deal of content at mid-levels that focuses on making casters into Gods. At low levels, melees shine... at high levels, not really anyone shines though... everyone is pretty much even. bad guys together. Balance here, means making each member just as important to the team as the next member.

I don't want to get side tracked in this thread but really? I just don't see this at all.

[Ushurak]

The changed enhancements will also help balance out many classes (think augmentation here, not nerfs).[/url]

Hmmm...I have never complained openly about a change...BUUUUUUUT...here it goes!

For those of you above me that are trying to justify this statement by saying that the balancing means the dungeon will have a balance of things to make all classes useful and that it doesn't mean they will actually nerf the classes (always the arcanes)...TRY READING THIS AGAIN!

The statement PLAINLY says that there will be CLASS balancing.

This means that they are going to make sure that some whiney melee that got pwned in pvp...over and over and over again... by a caster two levels lower than themselves and submitted a report about how "overpowered" casters are going to get their wish.

The only way to "balance" classes is to make all 6th lvl THF barbs and fighters do the same damage at lvl 6 as a TWF
pali or rogue at lvl 6 and the Sorcs fireball at lvl 6...oh...and because the fireball can do its damage to an entire crowd then melee will have to have equal footing.

Forget the nerf-bat...it's become a nerf-jackhammer with its constant pounding.

Hey Turbine...instead of finding ways to "balance" the classes (in the real world we call this "Spreading the Wealth" and it DOESN'T work), start finding ways to improve on the classes that have been begging for more umph for years...like...say...ohhhh...the BARD!

Hopefully this will be my last complaint in Turbines direction, but it is really starting to feel and sound like Turbine is making its decisions based on the OWS agenda.

BTW - this doesn't mean that I am against a new enhancement system...it means I am against class balancing...allow each class to do what they were always intended to do and if players don't like it they can go role a panda on that "other" MMO.

[-Avalon-]

Hmmm...I have never complained openly about a change...BUUUUUUUT...here it goes!

For those of you above me that are trying to justify this statement by saying that the balancing means the dungeon will have a balance of things to make all classes useful and that it doesn't mean they will actually nerf the classes (always the arcanes)...TRY READING THIS AGAIN!

The statement PLAINLY says that there will be CLASS balancing.

This means that they are going to make sure that some whiney melee that got pwned in pvp...over and over and over again... by a caster two levels lower than themselves and submitted a report about how "overpowered" casters are going to get their wish.

The only way to "balance" classes is to make all 6th lvl THF barbs and fighters do the same damage at lvl 6 as a TWF
pali or rogue at lvl 6 and the Sorcs fireball at lvl 6...oh...and because the fireball can do its damage to an entire crowd then melee will have to have equal footing.

Forget the nerf-bat...it's become a nerf-jackhammer with its constant pounding.

Hey Turbine...instead of finding ways to "balance" the classes (in the real world we call this "Spreading the Wealth" and it DOESN'T work), start finding ways to improve on the classes that have been begging for more umph for years...like...say...ohhhh...the BARD!

Hopefully this will be my last complaint in Turbines direction, but it is really starting to feel and sound like Turbine is making its decisions based on the OWS agenda.

BTW - this doesn't mean that I am against a new enhancement system...it means I am against class balancing...allow each class to do what they were always intended to do and if players don't like it they can go role a panda on that "other" MMO.

Wow, now that is an amazing assumption of the given facts...lol

First off, PVP is NOT there focus, only reason it is even in the game is to give players who like PVP something to do... besides that, go stroke your epeen somewhere else...

Also, amazingly no one ever really complains about how underpowered clerics are... yeah, they can toss a BB here and there, but realistically, at end of quest, the kills are mostly in the Wiz/Sorc and Ftr/Pal/Barb hands... You talk about how arcanes are ALWAYS the ones getting nerfed? You must be fairly new to game, like in last 3 years... When I started, everyone splashed a level of rogue if they wanted to do DPS because it was not just traps skills, but a free +1d6 damage to stack onto the 1d6 elemental damage...

BUT... that was when game first came out, THEN as they added levels to game, more and more and MORE enemies showed up who were not susceptible to SA... This has been somewhat better balanced since then, but for awhile, SA was NOT a big bonus at all, worked great from 1-8/9, but around 10/11 only worked on 80% of mobs, at 12 60%...

But, thankfully, they added some stuff in to make it more like 80-90% again... (from what I have seen, but I am not a rogue, so don't know what it is now exactly)

They will NEVER give melees the same damage an arcane caster has in the AoE sense... but since I have heard/seen barbs popping 1-5K hits, and have yet to hear an arcane do the same single target DPS... I think we are safe. Wiz/Sorc are kings of AoE damage, Melees are kind of single target... is just how it works.

This is because the melee lays out 5-6 attacks at 1-5K (have heard of barbs doing 4-5K per hit) so a single target takes minimum 5K, max 25K (avg 15K) in just a couple seconds... how much is your wiz/sorc doing single target aside from insta-kills? And then, when they run out of SP, how much DPS are they slinging around? That barb is still hacking away...

Stop having a knee-jerk reaction (even though took you awhile to say it, you were still having one inside), calm down, and think before you go jump off a cliff with your assumptions. THF and TWF SHOULD be even in DPS, why? Because one uses an extra weapon, other one is putting that extra hand on the same weapon... neither one is using a shield, so both should be doing just as much as the other...

The problem on THF vs TWF comes in at the Str/Dex problem. If your TWF is str based then cool, but game sort of pushes people to be dex based TWF... and with exceptions of a few weapons, str is how you get damage... Also, you don't get full strength on off-hand, and the weapons themselves do less damage... so when your total damage for both hands is 100, and the THF is a 100 in same time, it seems even... but divide that 100 by 2, and add in a DR 20/? and the TWF now has a total of 60, where the THF is at 80...

Versus trash, TWF rocks... versus boss mobs, THF is better I think...

And as for the other poster just not seeing this... I cannot help that... I've played arcane casters (and saw the melees doing tons) and played melees (and saw arcane casters doing tons)... I think your problem is purely perspective. You only see one direction because the grass is greener...

[Ushurak]

Wow, now that is an amazing assumption of the given facts...lol

First off, PVP is NOT there focus, only reason it is even in the game is to give players who like PVP something to do... besides that, go stroke your epeen somewhere else...

Also, amazingly no one ever really complains about how underpowered clerics are... yeah, they can toss a BB here and there, but realistically, at end of quest, the kills are mostly in the Wiz/Sorc and Ftr/Pal/Barb hands... You talk about how arcanes are ALWAYS the ones getting nerfed? You must be fairly new to game, like in last 3 years... When I started, everyone splashed a level of rogue if they wanted to do DPS because it was not just traps skills, but a free +1d6 damage to stack onto the 1d6 elemental damage...

BUT... that was when game first came out, THEN as they added levels to game, more and more and MORE enemies showed up who were not susceptible to SA... This has been somewhat better balanced since then, but for awhile, SA was NOT a big bonus at all, worked great from 1-8/9, but around 10/11 only worked on 80% of mobs, at 12 60%...

But, thankfully, they added some stuff in to make it more like 80-90% again... (from what I have seen, but I am not a rogue, so don't know what it is now exactly)

They will NEVER give melees the same damage an arcane caster has in the AoE sense... but since I have heard/seen barbs popping 1-5K hits, and have yet to hear an arcane do the same single target DPS... I think we are safe. Wiz/Sorc are kings of AoE damage, Melees are kind of single target... is just how it works.

This is because the melee lays out 5-6 attacks at 1-5K (have heard of barbs doing 4-5K per hit) so a single target takes minimum 5K, max 25K (avg 15K) in just a couple seconds... how much is your wiz/sorc doing single target aside from insta-kills? And then, when they run out of SP, how much DPS are they slinging around? That barb is still hacking away...

Stop having a knee-jerk reaction (even though took you awhile to say it, you were still having one inside), calm down, and think before you go jump off a cliff with your assumptions. THF and TWF SHOULD be even in DPS, why? Because one uses an extra weapon, other one is putting that extra hand on the same weapon... neither one is using a shield, so both should be doing just as much as the other...

The problem on THF vs TWF comes in at the Str/Dex problem. If your TWF is str based then cool, but game sort of pushes people to be dex based TWF... and with exceptions of a few weapons, str is how you get damage... Also, you don't get full strength on off-hand, and the weapons themselves do less damage... so when your total damage for both hands is 100, and the THF is a 100 in same time, it seems even... but divide that 100 by 2, and add in a DR 20/? and the TWF now has a total of 60, where the THF is at 80...

Versus trash, TWF rocks... versus boss mobs, THF is better I think...

And as for the other poster just not seeing this... I cannot help that... I've played arcane casters (and saw the melees doing tons) and played melees (and saw arcane casters doing tons)... I think your problem is purely perspective. You only see one direction because the grass is greener...

You almost made my entire argument for me while trying to refute me.

1) I could care less about rogue splashes.

2) While I have never played a Barb I have seen those numbers put up by guild member Barbs as well which should further go to prove my point about how there is NO class "balancing" needed.

3) I won't post my Sorc-bot's single target numbers but can assure you that you are wrong on that part.

4) You mentioned "kill-count" and Sorcs/Wizzies being at the top....so what! Your point? The kill count chart is a major problem in and of itself because many players use it as a catch all to prove the power of themselves or other group members.

This leaves people forgetting that the palli aggroed everything so the mass holds would hit them all so the Ottilukes or WoB would kill them all. My AM Enchanter is NEVER near the top of the kill count..it's not what he does. What he does do though is immobilize everything so everyone else can get their kill count...I have zero problems with that.

My Sorc-bot however is usually at the top of the kill count barring their being a PM around and with the WoB nerf can even keep up on occasion. Now...is this solely due to him being a WF Sorc? NO! And it is ridiculous to think that. It is because I have played that one single toon for 3 straight years..he is my main. I know how to play him and play him well.

Are their some classes that need a little help stepping up? Yes. Do any need to be swatted down...NO?

As far as your pvp comment...sorry, you lose. I've seen more troubles come from pvp than ANY other portion of the game.

Like I said though, I am NOT against a new enhancement system. I think it would be great to turn it into something similar to the ED tree.
I AM TOTALLY against class "balancing".

[Failedlegend]

DOOOOoooOOOOOMMMMM!!!!1!!!!!111111

I fail to see how you get "Were nerfing everything" from "Were Balancing things out a bit (think augmentation not nerfs"

Also to say things are balanced is ridiculous.

Rogue Assassin > Acrobat & Mechanic
Melee > Ranged
Most > Paladins & Rangers
Everything > Elves and Drow
Str > Dex
Warchanter > Virtuoso & Spellsinger

I'd keep going but my breaks over

[Ushurak]

I fail to see how you get "Were nerfing everything" from "Were Balancing things out a bit (think augmentation not nerfs"

Also to say things are balanced is ridiculous.

Rogue Assassin > Acrobat & Mechanic
Melee > Ranged
Most > Paladins & Rangers
Everything > Elves and Drow
Str > Dex
Warchanter > Virtuoso & Spellsinger

I'd keep going but my breaks over

First let me start by asking how you were able to quote me saying something I never said...you work for NBC don't you?

The problem is that they didn't JUST say that they were balancing "things" out a bit. They also said (as their primary statement/goal) that they are balancing CLASSES. To balance "things" would mean making dungeons that need more balanced parties. To balance classes means some take a nerf while some get a boost placing all in the middle.

Now what would their estimation of what should be nerfed and what should be boosted run off of? My assumption (I'd say it's a fair one since it has been brought up by a proponent of the idea) is the kill count log.

Now your greater/lesser list does look slightly opinionated though...but that's ok because I also have my opinions on what is greater and lesser in the game as well.

Rogue Assassin > Acrobat & Mechanic: I guess if you solely look at kill count, although my Arti does pretty well in that area and still mechanics and crafts and all sorts of other goodies that IMHO more than makes up for what ever he may lack in the KC stats.

Melee > Ranged: I know plenty of players that would disagree with this. I can go either way though.

Most > Paladins & Rangers: I am a caster fan so I would have replaced the word "most" with "caster" and would have replaced the words "palli and ranger" with "all others". But that's mho. Seriously though, never have played a palli or ranger...why do they get a bad rep? I see many that put out some sweet dps and I thought palli's were some of the top AC builds? Just wondering.

Everything > Elves and Drow: hehehe ...agreed...but mine would look like Warforged>Everything>Elves/Drow

Str > Dex: Again that's opinion not fact. All depends on what build you have.

Warchanter > Virtuoso & Spellsinger: Never played a bard so can't say for sure...I just know everything is better with a bard around...I think I should make one.

...and I didn't post this to disagree with you, it was to show how one's opinions can change their perspective of everything in the game...and yes, my opinion makes me see things about the game different from you or the devs or Avalon which disagreed with me...which is why balancing shouldn't be tried and can't be done. Because it would have to be based on what someone's opinion of what overpowered/underpowered/balanced looks like and is based off of...and if it is going to be based off of kill count then get ready for the entire game to go down the tubes.

[esheep]

Warchanter > Virtuoso & Spellsinger

Depending on your objectives, yes. However if I was going to be duoing things or even soloing, I would take my virtuoso over a warchanter any day of the week.

[Lyria]

First let me start by asking how you were able to quote me saying something I never said...you work for NBC don't you?

No, because you're assuming "we're going to be balancing classes a bit (think augmentation, not nerfs)" somehow means "They're gonna nerf everything!!!!"

This is what you said:

This means that they are going to make sure that some whiney melee that got pwned in pvp...over and over and over again... by a caster two levels lower than themselves and submitted a report about how "overpowered" casters are going to get their wish.

The only way to "balance" classes is to make all 6th lvl THF barbs and fighters do the same damage at lvl 6 as a TWF
pali or rogue at lvl 6 and the Sorcs fireball at lvl 6...oh...and because the fireball can do its damage to an entire crowd then melee will have to have equal footing.

Forget the nerf-bat...it's become a nerf-jackhammer with its constant pounding.

So yeah, you're crying "dooooooooooooom!"

which is why balancing shouldn't be tried and can't be done.

And sorry, but this is the most flat-out ridiculous statement I've heard in a long time.

[Ushurak]

No, because you're assuming "we're going to be balancing classes a bit (think augmentation, not nerfs)" somehow means "They're gonna nerf everything!!!!"

This is what you said:


So yeah, you're crying "dooooooooooooom!"



And sorry, but this is the most flat-out ridiculous statement I've heard in a long time.

OK...so someone else around here has NBC style editing skills as well...nice!

So you take the 1st part of the second post I made and turn it into the first part of you quoiting me, then you take the second portion of the first post post I made and jammed it together with the first part you used that was never together with it in the first place and then you took the last thing I said in the last post I made and placed in with all the above and made it look like I admitted to shooting TM....well played indeed.

But for anyone willing to go back and read what I posted they would easily see that the context you edited it into are completely different.

[Lyria]

OK...so someone else around here has NBC style editing skills as well...nice!

So you take the 1st part of the second post I made and turn it into the first part of you quoiting me, then you take the second portion of the first post post I made and jammed it together with the first part you used that was never together with it in the first place and then you took the last thing I said in the last post I made and placed in with all the above and made it look like I admitted to shooting TM....well played indeed.

But for anyone willing to go back and read what I posted they would easily see that the context you edited it into are completely different.

I read your posts. Do you claim you said something different than what I quoted?

You were saying that "balance" leads to "huge nerfs", and made up some comment about "whiny melees getting pwned in pvp" to justify your belief.

When someone else pointed out you were crying "dooooom", you started throwing accusations of them of somehow misinterpreting what you were saying, despite the fact that that's exactly what you were doing.

Here's the entirety of your first post:

Hmmm...I have never complained openly about a change...BUUUUUUUT...here it goes!

For those of you above me that are trying to justify this statement by saying that the balancing means the dungeon will have a balance of things to make all classes useful and that it doesn't mean they will actually nerf the classes (always the arcanes)...TRY READING THIS AGAIN!

The statement PLAINLY says that there will be CLASS balancing.

This means that they are going to make sure that some whiney melee that got pwned in pvp...over and over and over again... by a caster two levels lower than themselves and submitted a report about how "overpowered" casters are going to get their wish.

The only way to "balance" classes is to make all 6th lvl THF barbs and fighters do the same damage at lvl 6 as a TWF
pali or rogue at lvl 6 and the Sorcs fireball at lvl 6...oh...and because the fireball can do its damage to an entire crowd then melee will have to have equal footing.

Forget the nerf-bat...it's become a nerf-jackhammer with its constant pounding.

Hey Turbine...instead of finding ways to "balance" the classes (in the real world we call this "Spreading the Wealth" and it DOESN'T work), start finding ways to improve on the classes that have been begging for more umph for years...like...say...ohhhh...the BARD!

Hopefully this will be my last complaint in Turbines direction, but it is really starting to feel and sound like Turbine is making its decisions based on the OWS agenda.

BTW - this doesn't mean that I am against a new enhancement system...it means I am against class balancing...allow each class to do what they were always intended to do and if players don't like it they can go role a panda on that "other" MMO.

Note the bolded part.

And here's the entire section that I pulled your "you shouldn't even try to balance" quote from:

...and I didn't post this to disagree with you, it was to show how one's opinions can change their perspective of everything in the game...and yes, my opinion makes me see things about the game different from you or the devs or Avalon which disagreed with me...which is why balancing shouldn't be tried and can't be done. Because it would have to be based on what someone's opinion of what overpowered/underpowered/balanced looks like and is based off of...and if it is going to be based off of kill count then get ready for the entire game to go down the tubes.

Does my lifting just that one quote, which I pointed out I found especially ridiculous, change your statement at all? You admit that your own opinion changes how you view the game -- which is probably why you see nothing but "doooooooom!" when it comes to "balancing", and then claim that "balancing shouldn't be tried and can't be done".

Sounds to me less like people "creatively editing" your posts, and more like you using the Newt Gingrich defense of "If you repeat what I said you're misquoting me." Since, you know, we're throwing around media/group/public figure references.

[-Avalon-]

You almost made my entire argument for me while trying to refute me.

1) I could care less about rogue splashes.

2) While I have never played a Barb I have seen those numbers put up by guild member Barbs as well which should further go to prove my point about how there is NO class "balancing" needed.

3) I won't post my Sorc-bot's single target numbers but can assure you that you are wrong on that part.

4) You mentioned "kill-count" and Sorcs/Wizzies being at the top....so what! Your point? The kill count chart is a major problem in and of itself because many players use it as a catch all to prove the power of themselves or other group members.

This leaves people forgetting that the palli aggroed everything so the mass holds would hit them all so the Ottilukes or WoB would kill them all. My AM Enchanter is NEVER near the top of the kill count..it's not what he does. What he does do though is immobilize everything so everyone else can get their kill count...I have zero problems with that.

My Sorc-bot however is usually at the top of the kill count barring their being a PM around and with the WoB nerf can even keep up on occasion. Now...is this solely due to him being a WF Sorc? NO! And it is ridiculous to think that. It is because I have played that one single toon for 3 straight years..he is my main. I know how to play him and play him well.

Are their some classes that need a little help stepping up? Yes. Do any need to be swatted down...NO?

As far as your pvp comment...sorry, you lose. I've seen more troubles come from pvp than ANY other portion of the game.

Like I said though, I am NOT against a new enhancement system. I think it would be great to turn it into something similar to the ED tree.
I AM TOTALLY against class "balancing".

wow... all this talk of NBC style edits and cuts... and you did the exact same thing. I did state more than just Sorc/Wiz on top of kill count charts: "the kills are mostly in the Wiz/Sorc and Ftr/Pal/Barb hands"... yet that said, "4) You mentioned "kill-count" and Sorcs/Wizzies being at the top" to you... interesting.

As for OUR NBC-style skillz, you say we edited your comments and left things out and all that... that somehow you were misquoted as saying that the new "balance" would actually be a nerf... Let's see:

"The statement PLAINLY says that there will be CLASS balancing.

This means that they are going to make sure that some whiney melee that got pwned in pvp...over and over and over again... by a caster two levels lower than themselves and submitted a report about how "overpowered" casters are going to get their wish.

The only way to "balance" classes is to make all 6th lvl THF barbs and fighters do the same damage at lvl 6 as a TWF
pali or rogue at lvl 6 and the Sorcs fireball at lvl 6...oh...and because the fireball can do its damage to an entire crowd then melee will have to have equal footing.

Forget the nerf-bat...it's become a nerf-jackhammer with its constant pounding."

Hmmm, seems pretty much EXACTLY what you said, word for word. If you wanna say it isn't, fine, but unlike real life, forums DO record what you say, and if you go back and change it, it tells everyone you did that as well... YOU said those words (or rather typed, but whatever)...

Now, if we wanted to do NBC-Style editing.... Let's see what we COULD have come up with:

PLAINLY... there will be CLASS balancing. This means that they are going to make sure... a caster... do the same damage at lvl 6 as a TWF pali or rogue at lvl 6

WOW!!! I never knew you supported this SO much!!! THAT is NBC-Style... what we did earlier is HITTING THE QUOTE BUTTON. There wasn't any editing, what you said is what YOU said. If you want me to edit your posts, just let me know, because odds are it will be MORE intelligent. Actually, I'd love to see what sort of REAL editing Failed could come up with...

[Aashrym]

This seems like a teaser to post in this thread...



Resonance

Gain Harmonic Shield as a first level bard spell.

Each time you purchase the first rank of an enhancement in the spellsinger tree you gain +10 spell points and +1% to your universal spell power.



Wassail

Grants feat Brutal Throwing

Each time you purchase the first rank of an enhancement in the war chanter tree you gain 1 hit point.


Please note: I did not receive any benefits from those 2 enhancements that I noticed. They were free while leveling a new character up and appeared at 2nd level bard as free enhancements, on Lammania in the U16 preview.

EDIT: My current understanding it the mechanic is a teaser but the numbers are already out-dated in the fast-paced world of Turbine Development. It was nice to see some teasers even if they just leaked subjected to change kind of information through.

[Alavatar]

The new enhancements system will not be up for some time. We're planning on giving it an extended beta on Lamannia before going live with it - much longer than we traditionally have with our game systems.

Any chance of a timeline update?

[GeoBob]

Might have missed another post in the thread explaining this, but what about Sorcerer...? It says in the "Mock-Up" that it will show the racial enhancements, and then 3 for class PrE's. But Sorcerers have 4 (Fire,Ice,Earth,Air Savant). Is this saying they are getting rid of one of the sorcerer PrE's? Or just not thinking about Sorcerer?

Other than that, the enhancement change i think will be greatly needed. Thanks for the heads up