Let's Talk: Enhancements!

[Auran82]

Hopefully this will lead to more options in the enhancements, as it is now, there are alot of cases where you are forced to take useless ones just to spend points, and there are alot that you just simply cannot, not take without gimping your character.

[Khellendros13]

This is great news.

Please look at reducing certain AP costs (Pally, Monk) and/or giving us more AP while leveling or even past L20.

Actually gaining AP past L20 (as a massive XP requirement) would be awesome. Even an extra 5 or 10 AP would really help to flesh out and make our builds more unique.

[GoRinNoSho]

One thing as a definite heads up, you will probably want to give out feat respecs/lrs etc. for characters with prestiges that require enhancements and feats.

That's something that I can see would cause harumphing if your feat/enhancement requires prevented you from reseting to what you were.

[Adrian99]

Agreed, the enhancement UI needs tree-based organization. Use as many levels as you can since they'll be easy to open and close.

Example (incomplete display for brevity, multi-classed toon):

- Class: Rogue
- Action Boost
- Haste Boost
Haste Boost I
Haste Boost II
...
- Prestige
- Assassin
Assassin I
Assassin II
Assassin III
+ Mechanic
+ Thief-Acrobat
- Skills
- Disable Device
Disable Device I
Disable Device II
....
+ Open Lock
- Class: Paladin
- Prestige
+ Hunter of the Dead
+ Knight of the Chalice
- Defender of Siberys
Defender of Siberys I
Defender of Siberys II
Defender of Siberys III
- Skills
- Intimidate
Intimidate I
Intimidate II
..
- Race: Half-Orc
- Extra Action Boost
Extra Action Boost I
Extra Action Boost II
...
- Stats
Strength I
Strength II
- Threat
Threat I
Threat II
...
- Toughness
Racial Toughness I
Racial Toughness II


My only other pet-peeve is the mutual exclusivity between class-based enhancements which makes some combinations of prestige enhancements imposssible. For example, if a prestige required Cleric Charisma and another required Paladin Charisma then you couldn't take both of those prestiges. Sorry I can't think of a real example right now, but I know for certain there are such cases.

[Duke-H-]

It does a poor job of letting players plan out character goals and you need the patience of a saint to use it.

True words.

I approve of any change that makes the UI better.

[Feithlin]

You're not very descriptive about the planed changes, but I recommend taking a look at the AP costs of PrEs, and the utility / AP cost of abilities. All PrEs don't necessarily need the same AP cost for each tier, but the benefits should be on par with the cost.
Also keep in mind that the values have changed a lot since the level cap was 12. The benefits of Energy of the Scholar for example are a bit ridiculous now (+20/30 sp when wizards usually have around 2,000 sp is 1%).
It would be great if some imaginative enhancements were introduced, like a way for rogues to reduce fortification, or to eliminate epic mobs immunity to attribute damage, etc. You could play with enhancements to allow some character to bypass some immunities.

[Rinnaldo]

The current filters kind of suck. Sometimes they don't even work properly (try viewing enhancements, checking unavailable and unchecking trained - it usually doesn't filter your trained ones this way), and it is painful that the filters can't be set and locked. It is also frustrating to have to scan through the whole list of "unavailable" enhancements for every race and class to find the few that will eventually become available to the race and class you're currently playing.

I am really glad to hear about this UI change, and hope that some of these issues will be addressed (if not eradicated, due to a totally different interface)!

[Theolin]

My concern would be with cost on trees where I cannot afford things that I have now because the prerequisites become too expensive. Meaning too many things in too many trees with too many prereqs.

BUT fixing --> having to remember what did I need for that enhancement and which was it for that one again ... search .... search ... grumle brumble .. oh there it is ..... again. <-- fixing that would be awesomesauce

[BDS]

Easier way to distinguish what is required to qualify for a pre would be nice. As it is now you have to scroll through tons of enhancements to find you pre (some of which you dont even qualify for, melee with spell dmg lines anyone) or look it up online.

As always not sure how much I'll like change. Guess we will see when more information is available.

[donblas]

I've liked every change you've made to enhancements so far - each has made my toons more interesting.

That said anything that makes the selection more intuitive - it took me 6 months to find the essential "show unavailable" bit - would be welcome.

[nibel]

Enhancements are a mixed bag in my mind. I would love a new UI (I have to use Imitating's enhancement planner every time I reset mines, or I get lost on the requisites), and I loved the new arcane lines. But on the other hand, there are a ton of "useless" enhancements that to nothing useful anymore. I mean, I doubt anyone ever buyed Sprint Boost IV. It just isnt worthy of 10 APs. Say the same for resist energy lines ( +6 resist is a joke), barbarian DR boost, or fighter/paladin Armor Boost

A complete revamp on the enhancements would remove a lot of useless things that were useful once, and isn't anymore. Eg, monk AP line still "thinks" you need to buy the first tier stances.

Since it's on topic, I'll give some ideas that probably someone will post while I type:

• Remove ability bonus enhancements. At all. The only thing they do is adding power creep. Instead, add more class/racial enhancements that cover the niche the ability was covering. Eg, rogues could get a reflex enhancement line instead of a dex enhancement line.
• Prestige enhancements should be visible all the time for anyone check pre-requisites without needing to check a box. The tree UI should help on this.
• Be sure to not hurt gishes. Not only fighter/wizard and such. Paladins and rangers can be considered "gishes" (Melee with a few magic support), but if they want to boost their magic power (like more SP, higher healing, extend spell, and so on), they lose a lot of melee power. Since the game actually is balanced towards the max hit barbarians/fighters, we have paladins and rangers not doing much against their non-favored enemies.
• Racial weapon enhancements should be rebalanced. Not much to think about it. 6 AP for +2 damage is too much.
• Remove the iron defender line. Now we have artificers.
• Show a screenshot of a quick draft of what you expect the new UI and new enhancements to be, so we can give more precise feedback.

~2¢

[sherbertmachine]

I'd like to see a reduction in cost for bard enhancements. Inspired Attack is outrageous.

[Meat-Head]

Also keep in mind that the values have changed a lot since the level cap was 12. The benefits of Energy of the Scholar for example are a bit ridiculous now (+20/30 sp when wizards usually have around 2,000 sp is 1%).
.

HOLY CR@P That's a good point. +1.

[gloopygloop]

As part of the new Enhancements UI, I'd like to suggest an added feature that brings forth a popup under certain conditions saying something like, "Hey dumbass! You know you forgot to pick up Inscribed Armor?"

There have been several times when I would have found this useful...



As long as the changes to the Enhancements UI don't break Handwraps, I look forward to the update.

[esheep]

One thing I would like to see is the ability to swap out a few enhancements -- get rid of one or two things without having to re-do all of your enhancements... a perfect example is my air savant who is maxed out on his electrical spec and his cold spec, I'd like to be able to hop back and forth from air to water savant without having to re-do everything.

And well another nifty thing would be the ability to build from the top down... select say Frenzied Berserker 3 and work backwards...

Thx.

[Calebro]

I don't care how it changes, practically anything else would be an improvement. Augmenting them as well will just be icing on the cake for me.
Ron & Co. may hate the extra work you're volunteering them for, but it will be worth it.

[donblas]

Woot yay - I especially like the idea of the "hey dumbass" UI

[blkcat1028]

Some of you might dismiss this as ‘fixing something that isn’t broken’ and that’s fine – it’s totally subjective – but, hey, I’m giving you a heads up just the same.

We hate the Enhancement UI. It’s been 4 years and I still cringe every time I see it, let alone use it. It does a poor job of letting players plan out character goals and you need the patience of a saint to use it. I could go on and on, but I won’t (feel free to use this thread to vent your frustrations with it if you share our opinion).

We’re re-doing it – replacing it with a tree-based design that should make character planning and advancement much better and also have the added benefit of making it easier for us to implement new enhancements (PrE’s anyone?).

It will also be the foundation for some future work.

It does mean that when this goes live, all of you will have your enhancements reset and you will have to re-spend your action points. Some enhancements will remain the same, but many will be new. The changed enhancements will also help balance out many classes (think augmentation here, not nerfs). I appreciate that forced change can be very stressful and realize that this will be major inconvenience for those who don’t enjoy having to make a ton of decisions – especially when there are ‘new’ enhancements to digest, but have no doubt it will be worth it in the end.

I hope that many of you will welcome this sort of change, but either way, feel free to share your thoughts and concerns. Again, I invite PMs for those who prefer to voice their opinions that way.

It is a very cumbersome interface and could certainly use an upgrade. So... Yay!

From several of the dev posts I've read recently, it seems you folks are excited about something. If that's any indicator, I'm looking forward to the next few updates!

[Xenostrata]

reduce pally ap costs plox.

Please, this. Really.

Make DM reasonable, since at the moment the top tier generally requires both 1/8 of a paladin's total AP and a starting charisma of 18.

Make the exalted smite chain worth taking, maybe by giving each tier a reduction to the smite regen time (also adding this to KotC, ofc). Change the Extra Smite line to 1 AP per tier instead of ascending 1/2/3/4.

Make LoHs more powerful, regenerating, and generally more useful. With HElf monks running around with no fail heal scrolls and any caster class having pretty much endless self healing, this ability could use a bump (maybe allow it to function with Devotion effects, and Reconstruction effects for warforged. Both stacking, since HAmp doesn't boost a WF LoH).

Change KotC to something useful against all targets (maybe +3 to-hit/damage to non-goods at t1, +3 to-hit/damage to evils at t2, and +4 to-hit/damage to evil outsiders t3).

Do SOMETHING with HotD to make it worth taking for any situation beyond leveling up and bragging on HAmp builds.

Give Paladins a capstone that can't be passed out by artificers.

Any and all buffing is welcome.

[esheep]

I had just thought of a suggestion about the implementation...

Don't make it a hard forced change... let people have the option of keeping their enhancements the way they were for a bit (I know I know, but listen)...

The reason being, WHAT IF? What if it doesn't work as planned right away? Everyone will be ticked off. Instead if you allow players the option to switch one character over at a time to the new system (so they can enjoy the benefits) you'll still get feedback, but it won't be immediately forced on the entire community -- this allows for a margin of error...

I know that might be harder to implement, but it might be the wise way to go. At least until you are certain that all the kinks are worked out (and it's been implemented on live for several months).