Zombie! 12 fighter/6 wiz/2 monk

[~Nettpuppy]

I am looking to TR my toon soon and I was looking to do something fun. I, however, do not want a gimped toon. And I will be fighting monk style with handwraps.

Race=Horc

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 18 28 (with fighter/Horc)+6(item)+2(tome)+2(exp)+2(fire stance)+2(Zombie Form!)=42
Dexterity 15 17 (with +2 tome)
Constitution 16 16 +2(tome)+2(Zombie form)+6(item)=26
Intelligence 10 11 +6(item)=17
Wisdom 10 10
Charisma 6 6 +6(item) -4(zombie Form!)= 8

Feats

1 Stunning Blow, TWF
2 Extend
3 Toughness
6 WF:B, SF:Necro
8 PA
9 Cleave, Imp Sunder
10 ITWF
12 IC:B, WS:B
14 Great Cleave
15 GTWF
16 GWF:B
18 Toughness, Brutal Throw
20 GWS:B

To hit; 17(bab)+16(str)+2(Kensei)+4(GH)+1(haste)+1(rage)+4 (Power Surge)+3(feats)+2 (good luck)= 50
Stunning Blow DC= 10+16(Str)+4(fighter)+2(kensei)+4(power surge)+10(Item)=46
Imp Sunder DC=14+16(Str)+4(Fighter)+2(kensei)+4(power surge)+10(item)= 50
Health= 334 Base+20(toughness)+30(GFL)+45(GS health item)+60(+6 item)+20(+2 tome)+20(+2 exp)= 529hp

Any and all feedback is welcome but remember: be nice! Good luck to all finding their shiny!

[Galeria]

I hate to tell you it would be pretty gimp.

One issue would be that the big reason to go unarmed fighting in undead form is for self healing... however death aura is a 4th level spell and with 6 wiz you'd only have access to 3rd level spells. To get enough healing from lesser death aura (a second level spell), you'd have to be pretty careful about taking damage.

And being in undead form means the average healer can't heal you either. Without a source of inflict serious wound pots or wands or any alternate source of healing, you'd find yourself looking for a safe place to soak up your aura OR coming out of form pretty often.

[MRMechMan]

What does 6 wizard bring to the table that cannot be replaced by clickies? Apart from a need to eat brains, of course

6 ranger would be better for ranger buffs and manyshot
6 barb would be better for decent rages
6 pally would be better for increased hate, smites and cha to saves
18 fighter would be better for kensai/stalwart III
8 monk would be better for stances, meditation, feats and light/dark
6 rogue for umd and SA damage


6 wiz= no death aura and slower attack speed. Doesn't like to be any way to ungimp that class split. Either go more wizard (ie 18 for decent DCs and lich form) or none at all.

[~Nettpuppy]

I hate to tell you it would be pretty gimp.

One issue would be that the big reason to go unarmed fighting in undead form is for self healing... however death aura is a 4th level spell and with 6 wiz you'd only have access to 3rd level spells. To get enough healing from lesser death aura (a second level spell), you'd have to be pretty careful about taking damage.

And being in undead form means the average healer can't heal you either. Without a source of inflict serious wound pots or wands or any alternate source of healing, you'd find yourself looking for a safe place to soak up your aura OR coming out of form pretty often.

I have a nice amount of inflict pot (there is a collector that hands them out), it seems pretty good. I will prolly not go in to form much till I hit Cap. Having Mabar robes waiting on me makes going into form much less of a hassle I would think. While the hit to atk speed is something that is hard to over come, i think that it is going to be a wash dps wise when it comes to killing stunned mobs. I honestly think that this build works, but maybe I am missing something here.

What does 6 wizard bring to the table that cannot be replaced by clickies? Apart from a need to eat brains, of course

6 ranger would be better for ranger buffs and manyshot
6 barb would be better for decent rages
6 pally would be better for increased hate, smites and cha to saves
18 fighter would be better for kensai/stalwart III
8 monk would be better for stances, meditation, feats and light/dark
6 rogue for umd and SA damage


6 wiz= no death aura and slower attack speed. Doesn't like to be any way to ungimp that class split. Either go more wizard (ie 18 for decent DCs and lich form) or none at all.

Well you are right on every part on what you say there so thanks for your input. That said I do like the flavor of the "eating brains!" part. While all of your suggestions make sense they do not keep with the flavor of the build, that is to be a zombie! So while this build may be gimp in that it could be better i personally think think having a SB @ 46 and having a 50 to my imp sunder is going to bring its own to the party.

And again thanks for you guys quick reply's Maybe I should have made it more clear that i was looking for a flavor build that could contribute to bosses and trash.

[Galeria]

That's cool- you said you didn't want a gimped toon, so we were helping point out the areas that will hold you back. If flavor is more of your focus, go for it!

I have built several undead monks and the only one that's not gimped at level 20 is the 18/2 wiz/monk lich build. Halfling helps and 36 pt build lets you cover more stats.

But I'd never tell you not to try! My favorite toon is a 12/5/3 wiz/rogue/monk that gets excellent sneak attack damage and vampire or wraith attributes. Epic level trap skills. I love her for soloing just about anything (that doesn't have too many enemies tossing light damage around) but if she gets in a level 20 raid, it's guild only. She gets declined from Shroud even.

In other words, play what you want but don't expect to be included in the end game stuff unless you are with friends.

[unbongwah]

I, however, do not want a gimped toon.

You're outta luck, then - melee zombies are gimp. Period. I've never seen a zombie-based melee build which made up for the -20% atk speed penalty. Some interesting vamp / wraith / lich melee builds out there, but zombies get the shaft.

Now, if you wanna do it anyway, go right ahead. Sometimes you should do things just because you think they're cool or weird or fun, IMHO. Just...don't be surprised if you're underwhelmed by the results, that's all.

BTW, have you considered monk 12 / wiz 6 / ftr 2 instead? You lose a bunch of feats & Kensai II, but gain Touch of Death, Ninja Spy II (+3d6 SA & Shadow Fade), Earth III stance for the +1 crit multiplier, etc.

[wax_on_wax_off]

For starters, start with 14 wisdom and take stunning fist, you wont be disappointed. You missed the -2 int from zombie form. Finally, the builds a gimp, go for wraith or lich form instead. It wont be a wash DPS wise, you'll have at least 20% less DPS than other builds due to that lost attack speed.

[Sethus]

There is a way to make this idea work. Doing Zombie, though, as pretty much everyone has said already is going to end up being pretty gimp.

I have found wraith form to actually be the most useful. I've built a 12wiz/6ft/2mnk that is actually effective end game. Gear intensive? Oh hell yes. I TR'd my main and it took a lot of the stuff i was able to acquire over the first life. Is he a blast to play? Absolutely. My standing str is 48 and the guy is really REALLY versatile. I can kite TOD, i can dps just about anything fairly effectively (i base at least 60 points of damage a pop, and when something is fully dotted with ice and light i'm doing another 400 damage every 2 seconds), i can tank some things on the fly (25% incorp chance + another 50% from being permantly displaced makes me REALLY hard to hit, and when i do, having both death auras up keeps me healed, using neg energy burst when needed), i can hit anything with my attack bonus (may have to turn off PA from time to time) and i can solo most quests easily.

If you want to know more or are interested in giving it a shot PM and i can give ya more build details. The flavor and fun are definitely there with this build. Enjoy!

[decease]

i would go 12 wiz for vampire

[ArcaneMelee]

i would go 18 wiz for vampire

Fixed for you - PM self-healing scales with level. It's much better to be an 18 wiz and use vampire for flavor than be a 12 wiz and have nothing better.

[decease]

Fixed for you - PM self-healing scales with level. It's much better to be an 18 wiz and use vampire for flavor than be a 12 wiz and have nothing better.

i think you are mistaken.. my main is pm and i just double check in game. both vampire and wraith shroud are from pm II.. lich form is the only one require pm III

plus deaht aura is 2d4 + 1 per 2 caster level. so 2d4 + 10 for pure level 20 wizzard. level 12 would get 2d4+6.. not so much different.

though pm3 grant an additional 10% bonus to negative damage.. but not that big of deal~~

[ArcaneMelee]

i think you are mistaken.. my main is pm and i just double check in game. both vampire and wraith shroud are from pm II.. lich form is the only one require pm III

plus deaht aura is 2d4 + 1 per 2 caster level. so 2d4 + 10 for pure level 20 wizzard. level 12 would get 2d4+6.. not so much different.

though pm3 grant an additional 10% bonus to negative damage.. but not that big of deal~~

Don't forget the temporary hit points when struck in Lich form, or the extra healing from not taking quadruple damage

Interesting, though - DDOWiki lists Death Aura as 2d4 + caster level, not every 2 caster levels. Haven't logged into my PM in a long time - did this change?

Edit: Nevermind - DDOWiki is inconsistent. Once I drill into the actual spell, I see the "per 2 caster levels", while the spell list shows per caster level.

[decease]

Don't forget the temporary hit points when struck in Lich form, or the extra healing from not taking quadruple damage

Interesting, though - DDOWiki lists Death Aura as 2d4 + caster level, not every 2 caster levels. Haven't logged into my PM in a long time - did this change?

Edit: Nevermind - DDOWiki is inconsistent. Once I drill into the actual spell, I see the "per 2 caster levels", while the spell list shows per caster level.

the problem is if you go 18 wiz/2 monk your ab will have big problem.... plus save and hp.. well lich form give +4 con which kinda make it up..

the thing is if you have 18 wizzard level you be better off casting then swing your fist..XD

btw. the major healing come from abbot robe.. can't remember the name.. since i never have the luck on my pm T_T i wish those are bta instead of btc

[ArcaneMelee]

the problem is if you go 18 wiz/2 monk your ab will have big problem.... plus save and hp.. well lich form give +4 con which kinda make it up..
...

10 AB versus 13 (presuming you take rogue or monk) - both will want Divine Power clickies.

Reflex save is better on a lich that jacks up Int and takes IR.

...
the thing is if you have 18 wizzard level you be better off casting then swing your fist..XD

Aye, that's why I said go 18 wiz instead of 12. Save the melee for the flavor moments, and stick to the class strengths.

Don't get me wrong, I love 12 wiz builds. I'm just not enough of a fan of vampire to recommend it. 2 spell focus feats for +2 Str and +1 HP per hit? There's better deals out there for me.

[ArcaneMelee]

...
btw. the major healing come from abbot robe.. can't remember the name.. since i never have the luck on my pm T_T i wish those are bta instead of btc

Shroud of the Abbot, or the Mabar Docent for the toasters.

[decease]

10 AB versus 13 (presuming you take rogue or monk) - both will want Divine Power clickies.

Reflex save is better on a lich that jacks up Int and takes IR.



Aye, that's why I said go 18 wiz instead of 12. Save the melee for the flavor moments, and stick to the class strengths.

Don't get me wrong, I love 12 wiz builds. I'm just not enough of a fan of vampire to recommend it. 2 spell focus feats for +2 Str and +1 HP per hit? There's better deals out there for me.

haven't been playing for a few month.. this is my fifth account XD gonna come back when they release something new =P and will make a new account for that hehe

i tried this combo but doesn't find it much interesting....hard to build up good decent health on a wizzard which is d4.. sigh.. btw monk are consider as full ab here i think, they change below of fury to add 1 ab every 4 monk level.

[wax_on_wax_off]

i think you are mistaken.. my main is pm and i just double check in game. both vampire and wraith shroud are from pm II.. lich form is the only one require pm III

plus deaht aura is 2d4 + 1 per 2 caster level. so 2d4 + 10 for pure level 20 wizzard. level 12 would get 2d4+6.. not so much different.

though pm3 grant an additional 10% bonus to negative damage.. but not that big of deal~~

The lost CLs on death aura is 20% less healing and then 10% from PMIII on top of that which puts your self healing at roughly 2/3 of what an unarmed 18/2 build have. Considering that you'll often have to use NEB anyway as an 18/2 to heal you're just making the problem worse by dropping down to 12 wizard for a few benefits which aren't much better than what lich form adds (DPS wise).

[decease]

The lost CLs on death aura is 20% less healing and then 10% from PMIII on top of that which puts your self healing at roughly 2/3 of what an unarmed 18/2 build have. Considering that you'll often have to use NEB anyway as an 18/2 to heal you're just making the problem worse by dropping down to 12 wizard for a few benefits which aren't much better than what lich form adds (DPS wise).

three thing

first: in vampire form you gain +2 str, which equal to 1 ab and damage. every attack heal you for 1 point of health.. plus Constitution damage on cri hit

second: splash monk means more bab, including Flurry of Blows bonus ab~~ also your fist become 1d10 damage at level 8

third: you may choose path shintao or ninja spy~~ plus your stance are more efficient. you will have more monk enhancement that enhancement your melee ability too.

i havce test it already 12/8 is way stronger then 18/2 melee wise



p.s. the reason to go 12 wizzard is because most of the best buff are level 6.. like GH, TS..etc

[wax_on_wax_off]

three thing

first: in vampire form you gain +2 str, which equal to 1 ab and damage. every attack heal you for 1 point of health.. plus Constitution damage on cri hit

second: splash monk means more bab, including Flurry of Blows bonus ab~~ also your fist become 1d10 damage at level 8

third: you may choose path shintao or ninja spy~~ plus your stance are more efficient. you will have more monk enhancement that enhancement your melee ability too.

i havce test it already 12/8 is way stronger then 18/2 melee wise



p.s. the reason to go 12 wizzard is because most of the best buff are level 6.. like GH, TS..etc

BAB means nothing when you're addicted to DP scrolls/clickies (which this build should be).

Healing for 1 on hit is not going to make up for the 30% healing that you're missing from the 6 wizard levels.

1d10 damage fists is only 2 average damage higher than 1d6 from base. If you include (Epic) Jidz Tet-ka and Earth stance it becomes a little more interesting (2d6 which is +1.5 damage), add PL: Disciple of the Fist to put it up to 2d8 (+2 damage) for some real benefit.

Shadow Fade doesn't stack with Wraith form afaik so is rather superfluous. Light side buffs are fine but underwhelming.

8 monk levels doesn't actually add a huge amount to melee DPS. Ranger adds more but still isn't particularly interesting. To get GTWF on the 12/8 split you have to be 8 monk / 10 wizard at level 18 which means you don't actually get vampire form until level 20 which is when the fun is mostly over.

18 wizard / 2 monk has more HP, it is WAY more fun to level (as you can get zombie/vampire/wraith form (much) sooner), is more likely to get you into groups, has WAY better CC/debuffs/self healing/burst DPS and is missing out on only a small amount of sustained melee DPS.

If for no other reason that to enjoy the ride to 20 I wouldn't go past the 18/2 build, screw staying in zombie form until level 20 with that -20% attack speed.

[decease]

BAB means nothing when you're addicted to DP scrolls/clickies (which this build should be).

Healing for 1 on hit is not going to make up for the 30% healing that you're missing from the 6 wizard levels.

1d10 damage fists is only 2 average damage higher than 1d6 from base. If you include (Epic) Jidz Tet-ka and Earth stance it becomes a little more interesting (2d6 which is +1.5 damage), add PL: Disciple of the Fist to put it up to 2d8 (+2 damage) for some real benefit.

Shadow Fade doesn't stack with Wraith form afaik so is rather superfluous. Light side buffs are fine but underwhelming.

8 monk levels doesn't actually add a huge amount to melee DPS. Ranger adds more but still isn't particularly interesting. To get GTWF on the 12/8 split you have to be 8 monk / 10 wizard at level 18 which means you don't actually get vampire form until level 20 which is when the fun is mostly over.

18 wizard / 2 monk has more HP, it is WAY more fun to level (as you can get zombie/vampire/wraith form (much) sooner), is more likely to get you into groups, has WAY better CC/debuffs/self healing/burst DPS and is missing out on only a small amount of sustained melee DPS.

If for no other reason that to enjoy the ride to 20 I wouldn't go past the 18/2 build, screw staying in zombie form until level 20 with that -20% attack speed.

totally not true

first. you don't have to go dark monk, yes shadow fade don't stack. but it is 25% while wraith is 20%. plus we are talking about vampire shroud. also light monk have various of buff and help you bypass dr which are also useful.

second. true lich form have +4 con but wizzard class is d4 while monk is d8. 6 extra monk level = 4X6 = 24 hp plus you get an additional martial art feat at level 6(thoughness is one of martial art feat) 24 + 20 = 44 > 40 hp (4 con)

third. monk have high save to all, while wizzard have low fort and reflex. since you do have evasion this do have some meaning and when facing certain spell.

fourth you need atleast level 11 wizzard level for GH which is ab, save and temp hp. which is why i choose 12/8

fifth (Epic) Jidz Tet-ka and Earth stance + 1d10 base will make it 2d10.. there is also a robe which does the samething~~ which is 4 damage average higher.. plus 1 ab/damage from +2 str you are average 5 damage higher~~ 5 damage = 10 strength, and do you really consider this to be meaningless?

sixth fun depend on what people perfer, usually people stick with one form. warith form require additional feat to acquire~~