Possible Deepwood Sniper

[Clayness]

Inspired by the latest ranger buff thread (and the many others that came before it). I hereby present 4 variations of a possible Deepwood Sniper.

One of my great hobbies is making prestige classes for Pen and Paper D&D, and I've actually done many ranged PrC's. Naturally I would love to see Deepwood Sniper get some additional love, especially if that love makes them useful at end-game. I've got a few ideas for valid PrE enhancements


The Assassin Route
Basically turns Deepwood Snipers into ranged assassins. Each level of the PrE adds a 1d6 Sneak Attack bonus to all attacks, and each level also increases the range at which you get the benefit of both Point Blank Shot and Sneak Attack by 10 meters (so 25, 35, 45).

Deepwood Sniper 2 get a ranged assassinate ability where the DC is 10 + ranger level + dexterity modifier (fortitude save). Same restrictions as the rogue ability (needs to be in stealth, and won't break stealth). Only works within Point Blank Shot range.

Deepwood Sniper 3 would probably need another ability than vorpal, since it makes a bit less sense on a ranged character. Personally I would use the Kensei 3 ability that increases critical threat range by +1.

The assassin route is though not very original, its mainly a rehash of already used abilities.

Tod Set Bonus: +1d6 Sneak Attack and +2 DC on ranged assassinate


The Trapper Route
Why not make more use of some of the very seldomly used ranger spells?

Deepwood Sniper 1 gets an additional bonus in addition to the existing bonuses that increases the DC of the Snare and Spike Growth spells by +5.

Deepwood Sniper 2 gets a further increase to the DC of Snare and Spike Growth by +5 (making the total increase +10), and causes an additional 15% damage to any enemy that has slowed movement. Additionally, Deepwood Sniper 2 gets a special attack called Knee Shot. 10 second cooldown, 15 second duration. The target must succeed at a fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + ranger level + dexterity modifier) or become exhausted for the duration. If target succeeds at his fortitude saving throw, he get a -5 penalty to all fortitude saving throws for 15 seconds. Doesn't work on red named mobs. If used on a red named mob it will though give the fortitude save debuff instead.

Deepwood Sniper 3 gets an additional +5 increase to the DC of Snare and Spike Growth (making the total increase +15), and causes an additional 30% damage to an enemy that has slowed movement. Each time an enemy steps into a Snare of Spike Growth spell cast by the ranger and makes their saving throw, they get a stacking debuff that gives a -2 penalty to their next save against Snare or Spike Growth. This debuff stacks up to 5 times and is renewed each time the target makes a successful saving throw against Snare or Spike Trap. If the target fails a saving throw against Snare or Spike Trap, the debuff is removed.

The deepwood sniper also gains an ability called Potent Snares. This is a clicky with a 15 second duration and a 60 second cooldown. While Potent Snares is in effect, all Spike Growth and Snare spells are cast as if though they were maximized, quickened and empowered. Additionally, they gain a +5 bonus to their DC and the cooldown to cast them is reduced by half (from 6 second to 3 second on Spike Growth and 3 seconds to 1½ seconds on Snare).

Tod Set Bonus: +3 DC to Snare, Spike Growth and Knee Shot.

This would make the deepwood sniper a really excellent kiter and crowd controller, perhaps even potent enough to kite such things as the orthons in part 3 of TOD. Heck, melee might even not get as ****ed by a deepwood sniper kiting stuff around as they usually are when a ranger kites things around, since the targets would be slowed enough that they melee would be able to beat them down too. It would also make the Deepwood Sniper very different from the Arcane Archer, with the Arcane Archer before far more damage-based, and the Deepwood Sniper being far more crowd-controlling based (but still with a potential to do good damage against the foes he slows down).

+5 to the DC of those two spells at each level of the PrE seems heavy, but its required. Ranger DC's are absolutely horrendous. Assume a starting Wisdom of 12, +6 item, +2 tome. Thats 20 Wisdom, for a whopping +5 to DC's. The spell level of Snare and Spike Growth is 2, so the DC of the two spells would be +17. With this PrE, you would get a DC of 32 at level 18, 37 while Potent Snares in effect. Still not really high, but definitely usable. On epic difficulties you would still need to kite mobs through your Spike Growth/Snare spells some times to reduce their saves before they would get affected, but the spells would still be somewhat usable.


The Favored Foe Route
This idea is derived partially from the Arcane Archers ability to summon arrows.

Deepwood Sniper 1 gets the ability to summon +1 lesser bane arrows against any creature type that he has as favored enemy, in addition to his existing abilities.

Deepwood Sniper 2 gets the ability to summon +3 bane arrows against any creature type that he has as favored enemy. Additionally the ranger gets the ability Study Foe. Study Foe requires the ranger to have a creature targeted. Using the ability takes 5 seconds. It has a 1 hour duration and a 1 hour cooldown. When the ability has been used, the creature type of the targeted creature is added to the list of favored enemies of the ranger. This also means that the ranger can summon bane arrows against this creature type.

Deepwood Sniper 3 gets the ability to summon +5 greater bane arrows against any creature type that he has as favored enemy. Additionally, the ranger gains the ability Marked Quarry. Marked Quarry is a debuff with a 2 minute duration and a 90 second cooldown. There is no saving throw for Marked Quarry. A mob with Marked Quarry on it will have its Fortification reduced by 5% and everyone friendly to the ranger will cause an additional 1d6 points of damage against the marked creature.

Tod Set Bonus: +1d6 damage against creatures on your favored enemy list

This version of the Deepwood Sniper would be considerably better at dealing damage than the trapper version, and wouldn't have to rely so heavily on having the right favored enemy as most rangers. The Marked Quarry debuff would also make the Deepwood Sniper a lot more desirable in raids.


The Corrosive Route
This is mainly a boss-beating version of the Deepwood Sniper.

Deepwood Sniper 1 gets the ability called Poisoned Arrow. Duration is 15 seconds and cooldown is 5 seconds and the arrow stacks up to 5 times. Each stack on the target will cause 1d6 points of damage every 2 seconds. Oozes, Constructs and Undead are immune to this effect.

Deepwood Sniper 2 gets the ability called Envenomed Arrow. Duration is 15 seconds, cooldown is 5 seconds and the ability stacks up to 5 times. Each stack on the target will cause 2d6 points of damage every 2 seconds. Oozes, Constructs and Undead are immune to this effect, unless the creature type is amongst the favored enemies of the Deepwood Sniper. If the creature is on the favored enemy list of the sniper, they will have learned to causes damage despite the creature usually being invulnerable to poison, causing 50% damage instead of no damage with Envenomed arrow. Envenomed Arrow uses the same cooldown as Poisoned Arrow and does not stack with Poisoned Arrow (so you might as well replace Poisoned Arrow with Envenomed Arrow).

The Deepwood Sniper also gains an ability called Lethal Arrow. Duration is 10 seconds, cooldown is 15 seconds. When an enemy is hit by Lethal Arrow, they have to make a Fortitude Saving Throw every 2 seconds for the duration of the ability (DC 10 + ranger level + dexterity modifier) or die. Only affects living targets.

Deepwood Sniper 3 gets the ability called Toxic Arrow. Same as Envenomed Arrow, except damage is 3d6 per stack. Like Envenomed Arrow, Constructs, Undead and Oozes are immune, but if they are on the favored enemy list of the Deepwood Sniper the ability will still cause 75% damage. Replaces Envenomed and Poisoned Arrow.

The Deepwood Sniper also gains an ability called Corrosive Arrow. Duration is 15 seconds, cooldown is 5 seconds. This ability stacks up to 5 times. Corrosive Arrow adds a stacking debuff to the enemy, each stack reducing AC by 1 and all energy resistances by 2 per stack, up to a penalty of -5 AC and -10 Resistances when stacked up to 5 times.

Tod Set Bonus: Toxic Arrow causes an additional 1d6 damage per stack, increases the DC of Lethal Arrow by +2, and Corrosive Arrow will reduce the resistance of the target by -3 per stack, instead of -2.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

No secret that I prefer Rgrs.

I also like stealth, and I think the "right" DWS PRE would be something I would really enjoy.

IMO, a "sniper" needs to be able to kill with single shot.

Now I know some people might think that a ranged insta-kill effect is to powerful, but I don't think so.

Currently Assassin III has a vorpal attack that works with ranged weapons.
Assassin II has an awesome insta-kill melee attack.

Casters are dang powerful. Lots of ways they can kill, even multiple targets instantly.
Many people seem not to have discovered yet just how cool Powerword Kill is right now.

I don't think that a "sniper shot" that emulates how Power Word Kill works right now would be overpowered or out of the question.

I also don't think a ranged vorpal effect is too powerful either (Rogues already have this)

I'd also like to see further bonues to stealth skills. (since epics need rather high stealth skills to sneak through)(and it is consistant with what we already have)

[Aesop]

So what we have now from DwS is

+1 Hide, Move Silently, and Spot
+10m to Point Blank Range
Sniper Shot: +4 to hit, +1 Crit Range, +1 Crit Multiplier. 10 sec cool down.



I'd change a little about this.

+1 Hide, Move Silently, and Spot
+10m to Point Blank Range
+1 To Hit and Damage
Sniper Shot: (active)+4 to hit, +1 Crit Range, +1 Crit Multiplier, attack counts as Point Blank regardless of range. 10 sec cool down.


then I'd start upping its potential from there. the following are total bonuses at each tier including the bonuses from the previous tiers.


DwS 2

+2 Hide, Move Silently, and Spot
+20m to Point Blank Range
+2 To Hit and Damage
Improved Point Blank Shot: (passive) Increase Base damage by two dice. (1d8 become 3d8 normal Point Blank Shot only increases Base damage by 1 die 1d8 became 2d8)
Vorpal Crit: (passive) Confirmed Natural 20 increases Crit Multiplier by 1
Sniper Shot: (active) +7 to hit, +2 Crit Range, +1 Crit Multiplier, attack counts as Point Blank regardless of range. 10 sec cool down.


DwS 3

+3 Hide, Move Silently, and Spot
+30m to Point Blank Range
+3 To Hit and Damage
Improved Point Blank Shot: (passive) Increase Base damage by two dice. (1d8 become 3d8 normal Point Blank Shot only increases Base damage by 1 die 1d8 became 2d8)
Vorpal Crit: (passive) Confirmed Natural 20 increases Crit Multiplier by 2
Sniper Shot: (active) +10 to hit, +2 Crit Range, +2 Crit Multiplier, attack counts as Point Blank regardless of range. Slayer: Target dies unless they succeed on a Fort Save DC 10+Ranger Level+Wisdom Mod. 10 sec cool down. Ranger Must attack from Stealth for Slayer effect to trigger.



Or Something like that perhaps...

Aesop

[Havok.cry]

So what we have now from DwS is

+1 Hide, Move Silently, and Spot
+10m to Point Blank Range
Sniper Shot: +4 to hit, +1 Crit Range, +1 Crit Multiplier. 10 sec cool down.



I'd change a little about this.

+1 Hide, Move Silently, and Spot
+10m to Point Blank Range
+1 To Hit and Damage
Sniper Shot: (active)+4 to hit, +1 Crit Range, +1 Crit Multiplier, attack counts as Point Blank regardless of range. 10 sec cool down.


then I'd start upping its potential from there. the following are total bonuses at each tier including the bonuses from the previous tiers.


DwS 2

+2 Hide, Move Silently, and Spot
+20m to Point Blank Range
+2 To Hit and Damage
Improved Point Blank Shot: (passive) Increase Base damage by two dice. (1d8 become 3d8 normal Point Blank Shot only increases Base damage by 1 die 1d8 became 2d8)
Vorpal Crit: (passive) Confirmed Natural 20 increases Crit Multiplier by 1
Sniper Shot: (active) +7 to hit, +2 Crit Range, +1 Crit Multiplier, attack counts as Point Blank regardless of range. 10 sec cool down.


DwS 3

+3 Hide, Move Silently, and Spot
+30m to Point Blank Range
+3 To Hit and Damage
Improved Point Blank Shot: (passive) Increase Base damage by two dice. (1d8 become 3d8 normal Point Blank Shot only increases Base damage by 1 die 1d8 became 2d8)
Vorpal Crit: (passive) Confirmed Natural 20 increases Crit Multiplier by 2
Sniper Shot: (active) +10 to hit, +2 Crit Range, +2 Crit Multiplier, attack counts as Point Blank regardless of range. Slayer: Target dies unless they succeed on a Fort Save DC 10+Ranger Level+Wisdom Mod. 10 sec cool down. Ranger Must attack from Stealth for Slayer effect to trigger.



Or Something like that perhaps...

Aesop

This /signed

[Clayness]

I'm not too fond of making the Deepwood Sniper a "pure" damage dealing PrE without any utility. I just know that if they make both the Deepwood Sniper and Arcane Archer into pure damage dealers, people will sit down and calculate, come up with which one is the best damage dealer, and 95% of the players will stick to that PrE. Thats why I tried giving the PrE's I suggested some utility, so you would have Arcane Archer as a more pure damage dealer, and Deepwood Sniper as a competent damage dealer, but with a bit more utility than AA.

Think of it as Assassin versus Acrobat. Even though the Acrobat isn't quite as potent a damage-dealer, they still get played quite a bit, even in high-end guilds, because they still have very decent damage and some nifty abilities to add. This is how I would like the Deepwood Sniper to be, compared to the Arcane Archer. And thats also why the 3 last PrE's I suggested all have some form of utility besides just dealing good damage. The trapper is over in the heavy utility side, and lower DPS side, with the corrosive and favored foe routes are in the heavier DPS side.

[Aesop]

If either should be a pure damage dealer I'd say its the DwS. AA should be more utility as it is well... Magic

The only other utility that DwS would really have is being Sneaky. Perhaps an Aggro Reduction ability built in each tier.

Aesop

[karl_k0ch]

All of the 4 options look very promising.

These are my initial thoughts; maybe I'll add more later:

Since DWS 1 increases the point blank range, this cries for SA damage being dealt over larger distances. This is why I am mostly drawn towards the comparatively non-unique option 1, the Assassin Route. I am not sure if I'd go up to tier 3 with that PrE, but rather splash 6-8 Rogue levels.

For Favored Foe Route, I am a bit sceptical if this wildcard FE doesn't actually allow a ranger to consider almost all mobs one encounters to be FEs. Which quests feature more than one uncommon type of mob where you want to have the FE bonus (so that you actually have to decide where to use that extra FE on)?
I am pondering if this could be leveled by imposing to-hit and damage penalty to all FEs, essentially saying: You are able to damage more types of mobs, but the trade-off is a lesser sepecialization/dedication towards attacking your FEs.

[Clayness]

Thanks Karl (wee, someone seems to actually have read the suggestions before responding)

About the wildcard FE, I agree that it shouldn't be part of the PrE. It should be part of the ranger class itself.

When I think about FE on the ranger, my instinct is that a ranger against his FE should do more damage than other classes of similar build/gear, while less damage against non-FE. That is how I envision FE working. Unfortunately, that is not the case. Rangers do less damage to FE targets compared to other melee, and even less damage to non-FE enemies. If rangers are buffed to a point where they do slightly more damage to FE targets, and slightly less damage to non-FE targets than equal melee of the other classes, then the ability would be overpowered. Otherwise its not, its simply closing the gap between rangers and the other classes a bit.

Paladins, at least, have different forms of utility to make up for their slightly lower damage, something rangers do not

All of this is an entirely different discussion, about how rangers could use a boost in general :P

[karl_k0ch]

When I think about FE on the ranger, my instinct is that a ranger against his FE should do more damage than other classes of similar build/gear, while less damage against non-FE. That is how I envision FE working. Unfortunately, that is not the case. Rangers do less damage to FE targets compared to other melee, and even less damage to non-FE enemies.

There's a similar issue with Knights of the Chalice and Evil Outsiders. However, this might be changed with the enhancement revamp. (This is where it starts to get interesting: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...12#post4250712, imho).

[Teharahma]

Additionally, Deepwood Sniper 2 gets a special attack called Knee Shot.

I used to make prestige suggestions like you, but then I took an arrow in the knee.

Seriously though, really nice suggestions!
/signed