Supreme Evasion for acrobat III?

[decease]

maybe also pole jump and shadow tumble? =P

[Uska]

*** is supreme evasion? Pole jump would be good though

[Redicular]

ok looked up what supreme evasion is...

how to frame this politely... HAVE YOU LOST YOUR F'IN MIND?

for those who don't know:

Supreme Evasion (Ex): At 20th level, a Thief acrobat takes no damage from any effect requiring a Reflex save.

this is not evasion where if you make your save you take no damage, this is you can't actually fail the save. 100% immunity to anything that has a reflex save.
fireball... immune
chain lightning... immune
force trap... immune
comet fall... immune
blade barrier... immune
spike trap... immune

shall i go on with the list of hundreds of enemy attacks that just plain don't work on supreme evasion?

in strongest language possible.... /NOT SIGNED

[MRMechMan]

fireball... immune
chain lightning... immune
force trap... immune
comet fall... immune
blade barrier... immune
spike trap... immune

And yet the blades in shroud still tear ya to pieces...


Honestly, acrobats are often dex based and teirIII=18 rogue so you will have a reflex save north of 40 most likely...and probably already have improved evasion...rogues need some love as it is, I wouldn't be totally averse to giving them supreme evasion.

It's not like it's a small rogue splash that gets that ability or even 13/6/1 builds...it's only near-pure rogues that would get it.

They are already evading every single spell tossed at them 95% of the time. That other 5% they are taking 1/2.

The only benefit would be monestary and epic traps and maybe some other abilities that have CRAZY high DCs.

[morticianjohn]

And yet the blades in shroud still tear ya to pieces...


Honestly, acrobats are often dex based and teirIII=18 rogue so you will have a reflex save north of 40 most likely...and probably already have improved evasion...rogues need some love as it is, I wouldn't be totally averse to giving them supreme evasion.

It's not like it's a small rogue splash that gets that ability or even 13/6/1 builds...it's only near-pure rogues that would get it.

They are already evading every single spell tossed at them 95% of the time. That other 5% they are taking 1/2.

The only benefit would be monestary and epic traps and maybe some other abilities that have CRAZY high DCs.

Agreed, we are talking acrobat 3 not some rogue splash. This ability would be awesome but IMHO not OP

[Jaid314]

minor side note, i doubt that most acrobats are dex-based. they'll have dex, sure, but i don't think they'll have enough to be considered dex-based. dex-based QS builds means you get to use two weapons in the game (3 if you count the epic nat gann separate from the regular nat gann). str-based means you can use all the various named ones, greensteel ones, and alchemical ones. not exactly a hard choice to me at least.

(of course, there will be some that are TWF, though i still doubt they'll be dex-based either... but some might be, i guess).

[Uska]

Ok what broken splat book is that from or is it from that mess that is 4E anyways ummm now that I know what it is NO!

[CheeseMilk]

Pole jump would be cool, it could work like FvS wings/abundant step, just needs a new animation.

And it certainly wouldn't be in any way game-breaking, since the inception of Cannith Boots.

Superior Evasion could work like the Rogue special ability Slippery Mind, where you get a reroll on a failed save.

I'm not sure how Shadow Tumble works in PnP, but going by the name, in DDO it could grant 50% (or 25% or whatever) miss chance (a la Displacement or Blur) while tumbling.

That would be pretty neat.

[MRMechMan]

I'm not sure how Shadow Tumble works in PnP, but going by the name, in DDO it could grant 50% (or 25% or whatever) miss chance (a la Displacement or Blur) while tumbling.

That would be pretty neat.

Haha yea that would be SICK.

People who are saying it's OP...superior evasion is nothing compared to 45-50 necro DC, X6 barb crits, DP+shieldblocking fvs yadda yadda...rogues really do need all the love they can get right now.

One thing I don't like though is it would mean reflex save is useless on acrobat...I like the rerolled save ability more as it's powerful but reflex save still matters.

And seeing an acrobat tumbling everywhere being the last man standing in VOD or something would be hilarious.

[MRMechMan]

Also I feel acrobats should get quite large bonuses to trip feats, and improved trip for free.

[Miow]

Haha yea that would be SICK.

People who are saying it's OP...superior evasion is nothing compared to 45-50 necro DC, X6 barb crits, DP+shieldblocking fvs yadda yadda...rogues really do need all the love they can get right now.

One thing I don't like though is it would mean reflex save is useless on acrobat...I like the rerolled save ability more as it's powerful but reflex save still matters.

And seeing an acrobat tumbling everywhere being the last man standing in VOD or something would be hilarious.

hmmmmm kite them in the spikes!!!! lol

[Chai]

ok looked up what supreme evasion is...

how to frame this politely... HAVE YOU LOST YOUR F'IN MIND?

for those who don't know:


this is not evasion where if you make your save you take no damage, this is you can't actually fail the save. 100% immunity to anything that has a reflex save.
fireball... immune
chain lightning... immune
force trap... immune
comet fall... immune
blade barrier... immune
spike trap... immune

shall i go on with the list of hundreds of enemy attacks that just plain don't work on supreme evasion?

in strongest language possible.... /NOT SIGNED

When you compare state of the current game versus what it would be like if this was added, its not really far fetched.

Current state of the game, accrobat only ever failing on a roll of a 1.

The benefit of the supreme evasion feat for accrobats is 5% more reflex save successes in most cases.

95% immune to damage if reflex save is required -vs- 100% immune is the comparison in most cases.

[grodon9999]

Just wait until we get a quest filled with epic halfling mobs . . .

[Cyr]

/meh

Big deal they save on a 1. I'm just not seeing the big OP concern here.

[Darkrok]

I'd sign it with one change.

Rather that doing no damage automatically make it like Slippery Mind - if you would have failed a save you get another save.

That way we don't cause the reflex save to be pointless. A good reflex save would be necessary to make Supreme Evasion useful. Right now, best case, a character with improved evasion takes 50% damage 5% of the time. With Supreme Evasion they would take 50% damage 0.25% of the time. But again, that's best-case. They'll still need to put in the gear, build, etc to get to a reflex save that allows that. Even if they don't get to save on a 1 though it will still be a useful feature of the PrE and thematically appropriate.

[Aaxeyu]

It would make reflex save completely useless for an acrobat. That doesn't sound fun.

[Jaid314]

It would make reflex save completely useless for an acrobat. That doesn't sound fun.

that would make acrobats stop caring about things that specifically boost reflex saves only, but dex still adds damage for an acrobat, plus boosts AC, so....

[Kinerd]

I am shocked by the negative response to this proposal. Has anyone, anywhere, ever had the thought "acrobats are OP"? Ever? The general population doesn't even consider rogues DPS builds, and we're worried about a marginal increase in Evasion ability for acrobats? Come on already.

[Norean]

maybe also pole jump and shadow tumble? =P

What about pole dancing?

[Chai]

Just wait until we get a quest filled with epic halfling mobs . . .

That means I have to crush up two chattering rings to make a coupla beaters for that right?