Archmage Kinetics/Illusion

[ManifestDestined]

First time using forums, so sorry if my format is odd.
I currently have a 28-point Drow level 16 wizard, no TR, who is strongly archmage. I recently respecced him from fire specialist to kineticist/illusionist. I have maxed out kinetic damage, 5 of the critical chance, and 5 of the critical damage. I am also currently using superior potency VI I have Evocation focus and Greater Evocation focus on me. I have the magic missiles, invisibility, blur, displacement, phantasmal killer, arcane bolt, and arcane bolt spell-like abilities (SLA) purchased. As a result, I only have 1100 spell points without Archmagi effects. I have and use Quickened, Extend, Maximized, and Empowered for free on my SLAs.
-I like the slow spell-point use of this build. I use 100-300 spell points on buffs, depending on quests, then I use the rest on Displacement renewal and spell-like abilities, along with force missiles, with a couple maximized/empowered cyclonic blasts and disintegrates. Spell costs: MM- 2. ABo- 2. ABl- 6. Force missiles- 8. PK- 10.
-Surprisingly, I usually get double the kills of the other slayers in the group, including other arcanes. Most of this comes from spamming quickened (nonheightened) phantasmal killer every 6 seconds with a 90% kill rate, but I also get a large number of from my SLA arcane blast, SLA arcane bolt, SLA MM, and force missiles. My phantasmal killer has a DC of 30 without buffs, items, heightening, or misc. My arcane bolt and blast average 120 damage, >300 on crits. My SLA MM and force missiles hit for 23 average with 60s average crits.
-I get annoyed by the pretty long recharge; Should I get chain missiles so I can get another 8-second recharge SLA?
-Should I get heightened now or at level 20?
-If my PK DC is high enough, should I keep it as a SLA at higher levels?
-Is the cyclonic blast SLA more or less valuable than my PK SLA?
-I never use any level 7+ offensive spells, what should I use in those slots?
-Has anyone ever tried something like this before?

Again, first time using the forums, so thats why this post might be awkward.
I would love any feedback you have for this build, whether its the weirdest thing you have heard of or something interesting with potential.

[Jaid314]

- slow is right. i was going to make a force archmage once, but got bored (evidently it works fine for you, so either i was doing something wrong or you just enjoy a different style of play). i would recommend you keep at least a few points in something other than force (1/1/1 in damage/crit chance/crit damage in cold and lightning should cover most of your bases).

- ok, you should probably know this is not the "best" build in the game (but hey, if you're having fun and being reasonably effective, that's the main thing). expect to hear people tell you there are more effective builds, and don't get defensive about it. there *are* better builds, but so long as you're contributing effectively i don't believe anyone has the right to ask more of you than that (although, on the other hand, they can certainly make it a requirement for being in their party, they just can't demand that you change how you play and have fun is all). the drawback of course is that sometimes people will be looking for very specific things in a wizard (like being able to clear trash in shroud part 1). if you don't think you'll be able to do what is asked, speak up sooner rather than later (feel free to get the job they want done using a method they don't expect, though; just make sure it gets done ) ultimately, the largest determining factor in who helps out in a quest is the player, not the build, anyways. there's lots of extremely gimped max str/con frenzied berzerker THF barbarians out there, and it's not because their build sucks.

- yes, you should get chain missiles. not only is it another spell to add to your rotation, it's an AOE spell to add to your rotation.

- get heighten now as in at level 18? well, that depends. if you don't have greater evocation focus yet, level 18 will be your last chance (you can't get it with the bonus at 20). if that is the case, i would recommend you leave heighten to 20, though that's a long time to wait and you'll have a hard time landing DC-based spells for sure by then. if you do have greater evocation focus already, heighten should be your first choice imo. although, i'm not sure what you'd take at level 20 if you do that...

- if you're going up to tier 3 for displacement either way, you may as well go to tier 4 for phantasmal killer. frankly, i wouldn't go to tier 3 in illusion personally, but since it's not my character it's none of my business. really, that ability is the only even remotely compelling reason to go illusion archmage.

- i wouldn't go after cyclonic blast. too costly, too little benefit. it's useful, but for the number of times you'll use it you can either clicky it (howling bracers out of lordsmarch chain) or cast it (non-empowered, non-maximised) most likely. not that it isn't a good spell, it definitely has it's uses (clearing persistent AOE, deals damage to almost anything without a mantle, and a bit of CC + some AOE), but i wouldn't worry about getting it for an SLA.

- i'm sure people have tried one side or the other. not sure i've ever seen illusion/evocation for an archmage, but i've seen a few evocation and probably a few illusion archmages around. really though, i can't say that i pester every single archmage for their schools of choice.

[Havok.cry]

First time using forums, so sorry if my format is odd.
I currently have a 28-point Drow level 16 wizard, no TR, who is strongly archmage. I recently respecced him from fire specialist to kineticist/illusionist. I have maxed out kinetic damage, 5 of the critical chance, and 5 of the critical damage. I am also currently using superior potency VI I have Evocation focus and Greater Evocation focus on me. I have the magic missiles, invisibility, blur, displacement, phantasmal killer, arcane bolt, and arcane bolt spell-like abilities (SLA) purchased. As a result, I only have 1100 spell points without Archmagi effects. I have and use Quickened, Extend, Maximized, and Empowered for free on my SLAs.
-I like the slow spell-point use of this build. I use 100-300 spell points on buffs, depending on quests, then I use the rest on Displacement renewal and spell-like abilities, along with force missiles, with a couple maximized/empowered cyclonic blasts and disintegrates. Spell costs: MM- 2. ABo- 2. ABl- 6. Force missiles- 8. PK- 10.
-Surprisingly, I usually get double the kills of the other slayers in the group, including other arcanes. Most of this comes from spamming quickened (nonheightened) phantasmal killer every 6 seconds with a 90% kill rate, but I also get a large number of from my SLA arcane blast, SLA arcane bolt, SLA MM, and force missiles. My phantasmal killer has a DC of 30 without buffs, items, heightening, or misc. My arcane bolt and blast average 120 damage, >300 on crits. My SLA MM and force missiles hit for 23 average with 60s average crits.
-I get annoyed by the pretty long recharge; Should I get chain missiles so I can get another 8-second recharge SLA?
-Should I get heightened now or at level 20?
-If my PK DC is high enough, should I keep it as a SLA at higher levels?
-Is the cyclonic blast SLA more or less valuable than my PK SLA?
-I never use any level 7+ offensive spells, what should I use in those slots?
-Has anyone ever tried something like this before?

Again, first time using the forums, so thats why this post might be awkward.
I would love any feedback you have for this build, whether its the weirdest thing you have heard of or something interesting with potential.

When I played archmagi I enjoyed having the chainmissle SLA. The cyclonic blast spell is not worth anything though, and I would not reccomend spending your enhancement points on it. PK is definitely superior in every way. Heighten spell is great to get ASAP (edit: what the guy above me said about heighten is true). Consider getting prismatic spray and greater shout at the higher levels because they are decent evocation CC spells (imho) enervate can ensure something fails its saves so that is also reccomended. Symbol of death is nice for lowering groups of mobs saves, again recommend it for any wizard. Meteor swarm is actually enhanced by kinetics so you might consider picking it up as well, simply for the massive damage it can do to things that aren't immune to fire. Powerword kill might have a long cooldown, but it instantly kills a target with no save, so having it around for the oh **** moments is nice. same goes for otto's irresistible dance. Hope something in here helps you.

[Credinus]

I won't speak for the illusion archmage line, since I haven't bothered with it. But I've been running a full force-specced evocation archmage lately, currently level 18, and will offer some advice about it...

- I noticed you don't have any lore items listed in your gear. If you don't already, consider having a major kinetic lore item and even an arcane lore (greater if you have access to one) since arcane lore will help cyclonic blast and disintegrate; the extra crit chance and damage really helps those otherwise weak force SLA's. For instance, my magic missiles do about 23 damage a piece non-crit, but around 60 damage a piece on a crit.

- Cyclonic blast SLA is absolutely not worth the 125 max SP reduction if you aren't focusing solely on your SLA damage. If you are, it's -almost- worth it, but the problems with cyclonic blast are that a) it's got a reflex save (which means hard/elite level 18+ mobs will usually take half or no damage from it) and b) it's got some wonky damage, sometimes doing WAY less than it should (my average blast hits for about 400, but sometimes hits for about 40, which doesn't make any sense at all since a successful non-evasion save should still make it do about 200). It also suffers from the same long-cooldown problem as the rest of the archmage SLA's. It does, however, do pretty good damage when fully-specced for it against non-evasion mobs, and it also does a good job of knocking down casters. Additionally, it blows away your own AoE clouds too, which really sucks.

- Arcane bolt and blast become nearly useless in the endgame due to the fact that they have a reflex save but can't be heightened. Arcane bolt especially; you'll have to really focus on evocation spells to get its DC above 30. It also doesn't help that they don't use loaded dice, so you can get some really worthless hits with those spells. If you aren't fully speccing for SLA damage, you might consider replacing those two, as the extra max SP from not having them might go to better use.

- The chain missiles SLA is pretty decent and worth having. If you've got just two mobs next to each other, it's hard to beat; your initial target will take roughly force-missile damage and the secondary target will take a ton of damage. As a medium-large group AoE, though, it doesn't do a whole lot since you can't control which mobs take the extra missiles.


You're getting to that level where you're really going to notice the downsides of the force damage SLA's. Their relatively low damage output, combined with their cooldowns, make them really ineffective at taking down mobs in high-level quests where trash mobs tend to have 500+ HP even on normal. To put things into perspective, here's some numbers and experiences I've been having as a fully-specced force damage evoker, starting with what I've got gear+stat-wise:

Gear enhancements which affects my spell strategies: major kinetic lore, superior potency 6, arcane lore, superior corrosion 8 (for black dragon bolt on bosses), major repair lore/superior recon 7 (for self-healing boosts)
Meta magics: heighten (always on for every spell that can be heightened), quicken (always on for SLA's and reconstruct), maximize/empower (always on), enlarge (always on for SLA's), extend (always on for key short duration buffs like displacement/haste/rage), spell focus and greater spell focus evocation, toughness+mental toughness
Enhancements: Manipulation 1 for all types (extra 20% damage for every spell is useful for scenarios where SLA's won't cut it), 9% crit chance on kinetic, will get last point of kinetic crit damage at level 19

With this setup, my current DC for evocation spells is 35 (will be 37 once I can finally get the kinetic scepter from reign of madness to drop), with the DC for everything else being 31 (29 for enchantment due to docent, but this isn't a crowd control build anyway). My primary damage spells are my full SLA lineup (all evocation + arcane bolt/blast), disintegrate, wail of the banshee, black dragon bolt, and meteor swarm. I've got others I use situationally (such as cone of cold in large mobs). Here's my average damages for the SLA's:
-Magic Missile: ~23 per missile non-crit, ~60 per missile crit
-Chain Missile: Primary target ~200 non-crit and ~500 crit, secondary target I dunno, but it's a lot
-Cyclonic Blast: ~400 damage non-crit, ~1000 damage crit (not counting saves, or the occasional 40 damage nonsensical hits)
-Arcange Bolt/Blast: Wide spread due to non-loaded dice, but average non-crit is ~80 and average crit is ~200

Disintegrate does ~2100 on a crit, which is pretty nice.

Overall, the damage is there, but the problem is that the cooldowns make it really hard to deal with groups (considering neither of your "aoe" SLA's are particularly reliable). Additionally, there's THREE things that could nullify most, if not all, of your SLA's: evasion, mantle, and shield/nightshield. A perfect example mob that you might as well forget using SLA's is the rakasha lord in extraplanar mining; he has evasion AND casts a shield to block your magic/chain missiles.


In parting, you'll get some more usefulness out of your evocation SLA's for a couple more levels, but after that you're going to find yourself using regular spells much more frequently, especially since you are not fully-specced for those SLA's in the first place. Before you hit level 18 (when the price for a feat swap greatly increases), I would take some time to consider two options: either switch to a fully force/evocation SLA spec to maintain some modicum of usefulness (which means dropping your illusion archmage line) or get a feat swap and change out of the evocation archmage focus entirely. It really is an all-or-nothing prestige line at endgame, whereas most of the other AM lines can benefit from just dabbling in it on the side for 1-2 useful SLA's. The necromancy AM line is particularly useful as a primary focus for the DC increases on the better instant kills.

I'd really recommend against the illusion line entirely; it can be fun for sure, but when you get to the nitty-gritty and look at the numbers, the max SP reductions for the SLA's really don't make up for the casting cost of them since none of the buffs are used often and in the endgame phantasmal killer's success rate isn't going to be nearly as high as, say, wail of the banshee (which can take out multiple targets at once). By endgame, there's several options available to have permanent blur from gear, none of which are particularly difficult to obtain, so that eliminates one SLA. An extended displacement last 4 minutes at level 20, so you'll likely not be casting it more than 4-6 times per quest anyway so that pretty much eliminates another SLA. Shadow walk will pretty much just be used when running somewhere after all the mobs are cleared anyway, so it will get maybe 1 use every few quests; there's another SLA not worth its weight in SP. Phantasmal killer will grow less and less effective due to needing to pass 3 separate rolls to kill a target outright, so that SLA grows fairly weak. Invisibility is great in the early-mid levels when there's a lot of quests you can zerg from start to finish with it, but the late level quests make it far less useful (in many cases due to a lot of mobs having see invisibility). Overall, it's just not worth the feats and max SP to take the illusion line at all in the late levels.