Need a 34 build

[Such755]

I Am pretty bored with my pure cleric. It is an amazing healbot, but that's it.
I want to try being either epic at offensive casting (As epic as a cleric can be) or epic at meleeing (again, as much as a cleric can).

I am inclining more towards caster, since I got used to the incredibley strong barbarian and fighter, and was also considering 18\2 monk build, but I realized that it will greatly harm my offensive casting (2 spell penetration...)

So help me out here guys:

1) How well can a melee oriented cleric heal in raids? (the big raids, on hard and elite.) - how much SP can it achieve?
2) How good can a cleric be at the melee role?
3) I know a 18\2 monk build has huge benefits (two extra feats, EVASION!, wisdom bonus to AC...) but how much w ill it hurt my casting ability?
4) Is it possible to reach an actual useful AC with a 18\2 build? (useful = not for end game\high end content, but not sacrificing other abilities)
5) Is it possible to be a melee 18\2 cleric, strength build, using wraps? (How good it is compared to sword cleric?)
6) How to distribute stats points?
7) Which race? (Everything goes)
8) feats?
9) enhancements?
10) Gear? (Please no epics, also mantion where to slot my GS HP item)
11) Last but not least: I can take my 20th shroud reward as I write this. Which of the following tomes is best for the build you suggest? +3 int\str\charisma?

I know I asked a LOT of questions, but I will very much appreciate it if they get answered with details.
Thank you all very much in advance!

[Memek]

1) How well can a melee oriented cleric heal in raids? (the big raids, on hard and elite.)

He can heal nearly as well as a healbot. A melee focus doesnt really affect the heals much at all, except if you splash some other class of course. But overall, a melee Cleric will be a fine healer.

how much SP can it achieve?

Wisdom only gives very little mana, 29 spell points at level 20 per 2 Wisdom. That is not an issue.
Of course a healbot might take Mental Toughness and you wont have that, but thats all.

2) How good can a cleric be at the melee role?

Pretty decent, ~50% damage output of a heavy melee. Depends on whom you ask, some guess up to 70% - for detailed numbers you'd have to look into the DPS spreadsheets and run the numbers.
Attack bonus is only slightly lower than Paladins and Rangers and the likes.

3) I know a 18\2 monk build has huge benefits (two extra feats, EVASION!, wisdom bonus to AC...) but how much w ill it hurt my casting ability?

You gain 2 Wisdom from Water stance which is nice if you want to build a casting/meleeing hybrid. Lose some mana, 2 Spell Pen, 2 caster levels on some spells which is no big deal.

4) Is it possible to reach an actual useful AC with a 18\2 build? (useful = not for end game\high end content, but not sacrificing other abilities)

If you go Wis based, then yes. If Strength based, yes, but it will require good gear.

5) Is it possible to be a melee 18\2 cleric, strength build, using wraps? (How good it is compared to sword cleric?)

Depends on the sword... eSoS, well, i'd rather wield than wraps.
But apart from that, wraps are fine weapons, your Stunning Fist will good, even awesome if you Wis based.
The big disadvantage is that you'd want the 2WFing feats which is expensive. If going THFing the feats do less than the TWFing feats so it's easier to leave them away.
And you need Dex for the TWFing feats. THFing is easier to build.

7) Which race? (Everything goes)

No compromise - Half-Orc.
Otherwise, Human is nice for the feat and HElf maybe for Fighter dilli.

8) feats?

Depends on if you want hybrid or only melee, TWFing or THFing and if you'd splash.
Similarly for the attributes.

But core feats, i'd say
Toughness for HP
Quicken for casting spells
Emp Heal for the PrE
Maximize at least for BB and DP.

Rest can go to melee, and Heighten if hybrid.

Wraps or THFing... tough call. Stunning Fist is awesome but going THFing makes the stat and feat requirements a lot less tight.

Overall, i'd say hybrid is better in today's meta game. Energy Drain plus insta kill really speeds up killing epic creatures. And in non-epics you can do cool stuff with Greater Command and the likes. For Epics, DC might be on the low side. But Cometfall always works, although it doesnt knock them out for long.

11) Last but not least: I can take my 20th shroud reward as I write this. Which of the following tomes is best for the build you suggest? +3 int\str\charisma?

I'd strongly advice you to take the Essence of Cleansing, unless you already have a spare one.

[maddmatt70]

I would make either a melee focused cleric or a spellcasting focused one and with the current state of the game go spellcaster focused cleric.

18 cleric 1 wiz 1 monk Human.
Max wisdom with level ups.
Human: spell focus evocation
Monk Level: toughness
Wiz level: empower
1st: maximize
3rd: empower healing
6th: greater spell focus evocation
9th: quicken
12: spell penetration
15th: Heighten
18: wiz past life or greater spell penetration depending on if you have a wizard past life.

[Such755]

I guess going TWF with wraps is not an option, I forgot it requires 15 dex (with the tome of course), and that is not an option.
I don't quite understand the concept of" Hybrid", does it mean it will be wisdom focused caster? (18 wis + levelups)
Also, I feel more inclined towards casting, now that I read all of the above.

maddmatt70 - Why take only one monk level? Why take wizard level? I rather lose the extra feat for the extra monk level and evasion...


Here's what I have in mind:
Str - 10
Dex - 8
Con - 16
Int - 8
Wis - 18
Char - 14

Levelups into wis.
+3 tome of charisma + human adaptability for a round number.

Feats: (7 base + 1 human + 2 monk- toughness only)
Toughness x2
Maximize
Empower
Empower heal
Quicken
Heighten
Spell penetration
spell focus
greater spell focus


I guess that I can forget about melee, since you can't do both (At least you can't be GOOD at both...)


Question: don't monks use Wisdom as their to-hit modifier?
Another question: How about favored soul for pure casting ability? Pure or 18\2...? Which is better? (FVS vs Cleric)

[maddmatt70]

I guess going TWF with wraps is not an option, I forgot it requires 15 dex (with the tome of course), and that is not an option.
I don't quite understand the concept of" Hybrid", does it mean it will be wisdom focused caster? (18 wis + levelups)
Also, I feel more inclined towards casting, now that I read all of the above.

maddmatt70 - Why take only one monk level? Why take wizard level? I rather lose the extra feat for the extra monk level and evasion...


Here's what I have in mind:
Str - 10
Dex - 8
Con - 16
Int - 8
Wis - 18
Char - 14

Levelups into wis.
+3 tome of charisma + human adaptability for a round number.

Feats: (7 base + 1 human + 2 monk- toughness only)
Toughness x2
Maximize
Empower
Empower heal
Quicken
Heighten
Spell penetration
spell focus
greater spell focus


I guess that I can forget about melee, since you can't do both (At least you can't be GOOD at both...)


Question: don't monks use Wisdom as their to-hit modifier?
Another question: How about favored soul for pure casting ability? Pure or 18\2...? Which is better? (FVS vs Cleric)

To answer some of your questions:
1. the one monk level is for ocean stance so while centered you get +2 wisdom. You would have to either use a staff or kama and wear robes of course.
2. the wizard level I like more then the monk level because other then toughness there is no real useful monk feat and I think having a high hit points and self healing is sufficient survival and it is not like an 18 cleric 2 monk has a great reflex save anyway whereas the wizard bonus feat could be used for empower, maximize etc.
3. Monks hit with either strength or dex if you take weapon finess. The one exception to this is the zen archery feat which allows a monk to stay centered and shoot a bow and throw monk weapons and apply their wisdom to their to-hit.
4. Favored Soul are better overall then the cleric and at casting specifically. The reasons for this are as follows the Favored soul prestige enhancement gets a bonus to their dc and spell penetration due to the FVS aura and does more untyped damage Blade Barrior then a cleric and they have more spell points. I do think it is possible for a cleric to be competitve with an FVS because the get +1 wisdom over a FVS, they can get alot of spell point supplements to help with the spell point differential, they can also benefit from the FVS aura while running with a FVS, and in my opinion clerics splash levels far better then an FVS due to FVS only having 1 9th level spell and not having healing word. I think the 18 cleric 1 wiz 1 monk is competitve with 20 FVS assuming the cleric in question has a ton of spell point supplements like baubles, abbots gloves, and epic spell storing rings.

[Memek]

I don't quite understand the concept of" Hybrid", does it mean it will be wisdom focused caster? (18 wis + levelups)

This http://my.ddo.com/character/thelanis/mhagenta/ is a hybrid. I started with 17 Wisdom (+ level ups). You primarily spec into casting, secondarily into melee while making some slight sacrifices towards the primary to reach decent secondary. Gameplay wise, you cast and melee (and heal, obviously, but all Divines can do that).

Sacrifices - Since im not a Human or HElf i cant get +1 from racial enhancements, so in total my Wisdom is 2 down from the maximum, build wise. The rest is lack of gear and tomage.

I also dont have Spell Foci so the DC for the almighty Implosion is further down... But personally, i wouldnt spec the whole character into one spell with a 1 minute cooldown.
Not saying that it doesnt work nicely, but personally i just wouldnt do it.

Also, I feel more inclined towards casting, now that I read all of the above.

If you want to melee, then put some melee into the build. It'll turn out decently and i'd guess you'll have much more fun playing it. I do, at least.
There is a certain charm to casting Greater Command, have everything sit down, and beating them into the ground with a big axe.

[Mubjon]

I am planning on doing an 18/2 cleric/monk for my final life. Instead of going with twf or thf I chose to go with Zen Archery and use longbows. The object was to still stay back and cast offensively, but fall back with using a bow to debuff the mobs. A paralyzing, crippling etc. HElf for the rogue dilly for an extra dmg.

So I would have taken a few archery feats

Point blank shot
IC: Range
Zen Archery

Then I would take caster feats and all level ups to Wisdom.

Empower
Empower Healing
Quicken
Heighten

Then I still have two feats from the Monk and both of them I believe was toughness mostly because I had a lack of choices.

Now I did this on a 36 pt build, but if I had to go 34 pt I would do the following stats:

Str 10
Dex 15 (to help with reflex saves so I can make better use of the evasion I would have at level 8)
Con 16
Int 8
Wis 17
Chr 9

Get a +1 Charisma Tome or use the human enhancement to bring it to 10, use elf enhancement to raise dex, and all level ups, plus the greater human to wisdom if you have the tomes to make it even. You will have good to hit with the bow, the point blank shot will increase the dmg die 1 step to give you some dmg, the most important thing though is to paralyze or otherwise help disable the mobs attacking the melee or casting spells. The best part is that you will be able to still cast all the important spells and heal any raid while remaining in stance as bows would be KI weapons.

[Memek]

I am planning on doing an 18/2 cleric/monk for my final life. Instead of going with twf or thf I chose to go with Zen Archery and use longbows.

Hmm, im not so sure that the OP was asking for a complete and utter gimp. To be honest, it's not particularly difficult to make an archer - you just close your eyes and click whatever you want - and keep that up during all level ups and (most importantly) during all questing - doesnt matter if you are optimized to do basically nothing or simply do nothing at all in the first place - all the same. Pewpew on!

And, haha, excuse me if i laugh, but i suppose you havent progressed far in your quest for the final life if you are aiming for a pewpew for a 12th lifer then?
I dont know, but most people i know wouldnt even consider taking a character in DDO to completionist, and those who do, wouldnt want it to end up completely and utterly and ridiculously so useless as a pewpew.

But hey, play as you like. But maybe dont advice people what to do with multi-TR plans, considering that all you can promise them is a swift boot to their butt.
But hey, you play as you like.

[butcheredspirit]

I see you are playing with a few options for build.

My cleric was

16str
14con
18wis
12 cha (could drop this to ten for 34 point)

Halfelf fighter dill, lets you use any martial melee weapon.
Fighter dill gives +1 str,
human (greater) adaptability gives +1 str.
Human adaptability can be used to up wisdom
All level ups into Wisdom.
Then tomes of course.

20 cleric levels.
The idea is that implosion and destruction (etc) are going to kill faster than a big sword.
But melee is boosted as much as it can, without sacrificing spell casting, aura power etc.


Melee rips everything apart at low levels.
At high levels you have so many powerful spells, and can still contribute in melee.
The aura and the burst is reason enough to be in the melee.

Hope this gives you atleast one idea you like.

It's all down to what you find more important or fun.
Melee primary, or offensive casting primary -
For the most part, powerful healing just comes naturally (and from items).

[Mubjon]

Hmm, im not so sure that the OP was asking for a complete and utter gimp. To be honest, it's not particularly difficult to make an archer - you just close your eyes and click whatever you want - and keep that up during all level ups and (most importantly) during all questing - doesnt matter if you are optimized to do basically nothing or simply do nothing at all in the first place - all the same. Pewpew on!

And, haha, excuse me if i laugh, but i suppose you havent progressed far in your quest for the final life if you are aiming for a pewpew for a 12th lifer then?
I dont know, but most people i know wouldnt even consider taking a character in DDO to completionist, and those who do, wouldnt want it to end up completely and utterly and ridiculously so useless as a pewpew.

But hey, play as you like. But maybe dont advice people what to do with multi-TR plans, considering that all you can promise them is a swift boot to their butt.
But hey, you play as you like.

Yes because a cleric that has all the important feats to heal a raid, cast DP, blade barrier, and the past lives to increase the DC +3 on conjuration, +3 to evocation DC, + 6 to spell pen, for their offensive spells along with 2400+ Spell points, 500 hp on a casting cleric make it the biggest gimp in DDO.

Who said it was a completionist? I do not seem to recall ever mentioning that I was going to bother with barb, fighter, ranger, rogue or anything of the sort. Just said that it would be a 36 pt build. Grinding out past lives as a cleric, wizard or sorc is nothing they go very very fast.

I suppose you are one of those people that I have ran into recently that do not even know the Cleric can has a prestige?

[Firesmall_at]

CLR18/MNK2 all the way.

I envy those guys. Evasion is awesome. They get bounced around and the red bars don't go down. They hardly heal themselves. I think it is the best Cleric build out there. Just not for me... yet.

But I am a simple big arse sword guy for now. I like my big arse sword when things are laggy.

[Memek]

Yes because a cleric that has all the important feats to heal a raid, cast DP, blade barrier

Yes.
Certainly.
Other questions?

and the past lives to increase the DC +3 on conjuration, +3 to evocation DC, + 6 to spell pen, for their offensive spells along with 2400+ Spell points, 500 hp on a casting cleric make it the biggest gimp in DDO.

Sure, i'd get all those past lifes and then blow them all by rolling a pewpew and discard all that to make a completely useless character... Suuuuure.

I suppose you are one of those people that I have ran into recently that do not even know the Cleric can has a prestige?

Sure, sure. A prestige that you didnt even have to screw up with pewpew... but i guess that was my fault.

Look, we could keep argueing for a while but i dont think it'll lead anywhere.
You plan your characters to pewpew, i build my characters to kill stuff.
You build your characters to pewpew, i build my characters to heal killers.
You build your characters to pewpew, i build my character to heal the tank or tank himself.

It's all good. You pewpew, i do everything else. It's all good. What are we argueing about again?
Oh right, eventually your character becomes irrelevant... But lets ignore that for now.

Keep pewpewing!

[Mubjon]

Yes.
Certainly.
Other questions?


Sure, i'd get all those past lifes and then blow them all by rolling a pewpew and discard all that to make a completely useless character... Suuuuure.


Sure, sure. A prestige that you didnt even have to screw up with pewpew... but i guess that was my fault.

Look, we could keep argueing for a while but i dont think it'll lead anywhere.
You plan your characters to pewpew, i build my characters to kill stuff.
You build your characters to pewpew, i build my characters to heal killers.
You build your characters to pewpew, i build my character to heal the tank or tank himself.

It's all good. You pewpew, i do everything else. It's all good. What are we argueing about again?
Oh right, eventually your character becomes irrelevant... But lets ignore that for now.

Keep pewpewing!

lol I doubt you are doing much killing.

The only thing we know for certain is that you have a problem with reading comprehension.

[Memek]

lol I doubt you are doing much killing.

Alright. A caster who can level drain, both single target and mass, and insta kill, both single target and mass, wouldnt be able to kill, right?

But yah, i cant kill, and i just tag behind the others. When im not pretending to solo. Or predending to tank. You're absolutely right, and you make a VERY GOOD POINT. Gotta be a pewpew to make such a good point.

I could also start bugging you that im primarily a healer but then again you seem to be primarily an archer so i'd expect a guy with the profession of "running into trees" to outkill you. So, no harm done and it's fair game. The day a healer stands lower than a pewpew is Armageddon. You'll just know that... something... is just... off. And then the end comes... Dont want that to happen, so your pewpew can bite it.

The only thing we know for certain is that you have a problem with reading comprehension.

Ok, keep pewpewing. Im sure you'll find players to carry you along and have a good experience. Everything will be awesome!

But i can guess where you want to go... your character has a cute little longbow which does basically nothing at all, and my character... doesnt? Ok, i dont really see where this is going...

Why dont you have fun with your useless character with the cute little bow but leave new players alone? I think it'd be super for everyone. The new players would get good advice, you' get to spend time with your fancy - and certainly - very very powerful bow, and everyone else would have a good time. That certainly sounds splendid!

[DeafeningWhisper]

I have a "Jack of all Trades" 1st life cleric build I'm still gearing after I realized that, without a past life wiz (or 2) a pure caster build was gonna be kinda tough to make work because of Spell Pen issues.

Human 20 Cleric, 32 points
stats:

Str 14
Dex 8
Con 14 (+1 enhancement +2 tome +6 item +1 ex = 24)
int 8
Wis 18 (all lvl ups here)
Cha 12 (+2 here for U, or +1 con if you don't want to get human adaptability con)

Feats:

1 Toughness
1 Empowered Healing
3 Maximize
6 Empowered Spell
9 Quicken
12 Heighten
15 Shield Mastery
18 SF: Evo

I solo stuff by kiting them through emp/max BB with a HoX shield and Cove dagger on (you take little damage thanks to Shield Mastery and Cloak of Night DR, you also save sp thanks to dagger lesser maximize).

If and when I run out of sp I have my Fabricator Gauntlets, unsupressed and upgraded Dreamspitter or Rhal's Might bleeding/puncturing with Bold Trinket to finish the job.

Final gear will look like this:

Head: Minos
Neck: Torc
Goggles: Con Op HP
Cloak: Epic Cloak of Night
Body: Epic Cavalry Plate (fit +6 con)
Belt: triple air sp
Bracers: Bracelet of Madness
Gloves: Fabricator's Gauntlets
Boots: Cannith boots of Propulsion
Ring: Thamor's Ring (add +2 ex con to get 497 unbuffed HP)
Ring:Tempest/Water Savant ring (add +2 ex wis for +3)
Trinket: Greater Cunning Trinket/Greater Bold Trinket/Shard of Xoriat/Eardweller

In Epic raids equip HoX shield and Heal Scrolls (it's hard enough keeping everyone alive as is to do anything else), in easy Epics melee with the group with Dreamspitter/Rhal's Might and Bold trinket (that way aura is not wasted). Boss fights go with HoX shield/Cove Dagger.

Enhancements:
Capstone
Radiant II (and pre-reqs)
Unyielding Sovereignty
Adaptability Con
Greater Adap Wis
Toughness III
Prayer of Smiting I
Smiting IV
Life Magic III
Energy IV
Wisdom III
Extra Turning II
Scroll Mastery III

Do not get Life Magic 4 it's a huge catch since 90% of the time you'll be over healing thanks to Empowered Healing and turning it off is not efficient, save some AP there.

Hope it helps.

[Mubjon]

Alright. A caster who can level drain, both single target and mass, and insta kill, both single target and mass, wouldnt be able to kill, right?

But yah, i cant kill, and i just tag behind the others. When im not pretending to solo. Or predending to tank. You're absolutely right, and you make a VERY GOOD POINT. Gotta be a pewpew to make such a good point.

I could also start bugging you that im primarily a healer but then again you seem to be primarily an archer so i'd expect a guy with the profession of "running into trees" to outkill you. So, no harm done and it's fair game. The day a healer stands lower than a pewpew is Armageddon. You'll just know that... something... is just... off. And then the end comes... Dont want that to happen, so your pewpew can bite it.

Ok, keep pewpewing. Im sure you'll find players to carry you along and have a good experience. Everything will be awesome!

But i can guess where you want to go... your character has a cute little longbow which does basically nothing at all, and my character... doesnt? Ok, i dont really see where this is going...

Why dont you have fun with your useless character with the cute little bow but leave new players alone? I think it'd be super for everyone. The new players would get good advice, you' get to spend time with your fancy - and certainly - very very powerful bow, and everyone else would have a good time. That certainly sounds splendid!

lol I fed you enough, it is obvious that you are not really able to read much and comprehend what you have read.

[SirValentine]

I want to try being either epic at offensive casting (As epic as a cleric can be) or epic at meleeing (again, as much as a cleric can).

Cleric can be awesome at either. It's tough to be awesome at both though. Take your pick.

1) How well can a melee oriented cleric heal in raids? (the big raids, on hard and elite.)

Healing ability isn't really affected much on a light splash. Less
SP is an issue in some raids, but surmountable with gear.

2) How good can a cleric be at the melee role?

Very good. About one step lower than a similarly geared Ftr/Barb.

3) I know a 18\2 monk build has huge benefits (two extra feats, EVASION!, wisdom bonus to AC...) but how much w ill it hurt my casting ability?

With 2 bonus feats, you can use one for a Spell Pen feat to counteract the caster level loss, and still come out one feat ahead. And the Water stance gives you +2 Wis for +1 DC.

For me, the dealbreaker wasn't the caster level loss, or SP, or spell slots, it was the limitation on weapons I can hold and still keep the +2 Wis, since you can only get that stance bonus when "centered". I have too many nice weapons that are not monk weapons.

4) Is it possible to reach an actual useful AC with a 18\2 build? (useful = not for end game\high end content, but not sacrificing other abilities)

I have no experience with AC builds, but I hear it's very gear intensive. However, on a blue-bar character, you're probably better off getting hit, with a Torc on, for infinite free SP.

5) Is it possible to be a melee 18\2 cleric, strength build, using wraps? (How good it is compared to sword cleric?)

Wouldn't see why not, though you might be tight on build points, since you'd need some Dex, too, right? For the TWF feats?

6) How to distribute stats points?
7) Which race? (Everything goes)
8) feats?
9) enhancements?

For what build? Melee? Caster? Clonk?

11) Last but not least: I can take my 20th shroud reward as I write this. Which of the following tomes is best for the build you suggest? +3 int\str\charisma?

No, take the cleansing essence, unless you are entirely certain you have all the GS accessories you could ever want.

[SirValentine]

Another question: How about favored soul for pure casting ability? Pure or 18\2...? Which is better? (FVS vs Cleric)

FvS do more damage with BB, etc.. However they are very limited on spell slots. Clerics have vastly more flexibility. The ability to do most of your healing on a Cleric with aura & bursts makes up for FvS greater SP pool.

If you do go FvS, go pure, their 20th ability & capstone are awesome and worth it. 10 DR, and a free spell (CLW or Searing Light).