Need help understanding PM.

[jackel_inognito]

Okay, I have never played a spellcaster before, my wizard is the first. I was wondering, what are the differences between PM and archmage? I know that PM gets undead form, and archmage gets extra sp, but otherwise what are the big differences? Basically ANY information on wizard PrE would be helpful.

Also, I was planning on using tihocan's build due to my lack of wizard experience, but if they are out-dated or you know of a better one then please send it on by. Tihocan's build here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=232660

Thank you in advance

[Cauthey]

Palemaster in form heals through Death Aura and Lesser Death Aura. Or, from Harms cast from the party divine.

Archmage can Reconstruct self if warforged, otherwise relies on party healing.

Palemaster in form gets a bonus to Necromancy spell DCs.

Archmage, I believe, gets a bonus to chosen school spell DCs.

Palemaster in form benefits from a stack of immunities as undead, and enjoys 100% fortification.

Archmage must equip fortification items for 100% fortification.

Palemaster SLAs - three different negative energy strikes.

Archmage SLAs - a variety of options, all very cheap SPs.

[Enoach]

The big differences between the two PrEs

PM is Necromancy Focus and can choose any other
AM can focus in any two schools one primary one secondary <- More Options for focus

PM gets bonus HP per PrE Tier
AM gets bonus Spell Points per PrE Tier

PM has Shrouds that give them Undead qualities such as immunity to Insta-death and 100% fortification and other ailments that can impact flesh living creatures

PM gets 3 negative energy Spell Like Abilities that use HP instead of SP to cast
AM gets a variety of Spell Like Abilities(SLAs) that they can purchase using AP and MAX SP total. These SLAs come at a reduced cost, usually have a slightly longer timer - but have no cost increases when using Metamagic feats.


Disadvantage for the PM comes in the form of outside Party Healing - Since they need negative energy to be healed while in form. These types of spells are difficult to master due to their targeting mechanic so many that could carry these spells choose not to. Other disadvantage is if you reach 0 HP you become dust, there is no incap for PM in form.

[Simplesimon1979]

Warforge will usually go archmage. They already can self heal and archmage gives them more SP and very cheap web SLA

Fleshies go PM. Some go archmage till lvl 12 and switch for wrath form.

DC will be pritty much the same for both at 20.

For a first life wiz max INT, 16 CON and the rest in STR or you could MAX both CON and INT with no points in anything else.

Instightfull reflex is a good feat to pick up. Half damage is always a plus

[bigolbear]

ok pale master help:

When assuming undead form you will be healed by negative energy and harmed by positive and take extra damage from light spells. Pale master get 3 spells that cause negative energy damage(thus healing) these are lesser death aura(lvl 2) death aura(lvl 4) and negative energy burst (lvl 4).

most pale masters use the death aura to provide constant self healing over time and damage to any nearby enemies and use negative energy burst as a burst heal/aoe damage when taking lots of damage.

up to lvl 12 they play like any other wizard realy. zombie form isnt too great and the SLA (necrotic touch) is touch range only so its good for finishing off some one that rushes you but thats it for a traditional wizard.

from lvl 12 to 18 they get necrotic bolt and can assume vampire or wraith form.

Vampire form is very risky as there is much light based damage in the game such as searing light from hobgoblin shamans and vampires take x4 damage from light. you can make a mele mage with vampire form but its not for beginners. vampire form also grants a boost to enchantmnet spells so if you feel able to risk heavy light damage and want to use enchantment vampire form may be for you.

Wraith form gives a defensive boost (miss chance) and a significant boost to 'move silent' which combined with the spell invisibility grants a viable stealth option. Most pale masters use wraithform from lvl 12 to 18.

necrotic bolt causes small damage to you, but its free in terms of mana and the self damage can be easily fixed by the regeneration with death aura. It does decent damage(neg energy) to a single target at range - fort save for half.

At lvl 18 pale master realy take off. They get the third sla - necrotic blast, just like necrotic bolt but this one is AOE.
They also get lich form, this is the superior casting form that also comes with a bunch of defensive benefits including more hit points and procing temporary hit points.

from lvl 12 up its a good policy to use your sla's to kill weak enemies reserving mana for tuffer fights. Note that your slas dotn work on undead and golems so make sure to carry spells that do, you could even make use of a anti undead staff such as a holy of undead bane. Alternatively make use of those high necro DC's with spells like halt undead and command undead, and make them your allies.

lvl 20, end agme shinanigans:
lichform, death aura, neg burst covers your healing. gather stuff up and lay a good trap with ottos and symbol of death then knock em down with circle of death and wail of the banshee. (caution some angry meles will accuse you of being over powered)

regarding the summons:
They are as much a liability as a benefit, but it is possible to make good use of them with practice. the summons are amusing but certainly not a path to power. personaly I think the best use is when soloing they are good for killing something thats left on 5% health that is imune to neg energy or using the freebe skeleton to gather groups of enemies before engaging. You may also have a pale master summon in additon to another summon.

[bigolbear]

as its your first wizard Id suggest taking the folowing feats:

spell focus necromancy,
greater spell focus necromancy,
toughness
mental toughness


These 4 feats will qualify you for all options in palemaster, they will also qualify you for archmange and allow you to take archmage school specialisations and SLA's in necromancy. Obviously its one or the other but its simple and cheap to reset enhancements and this will let you try out both.

Additonaly they are 4 generaly useful feats on any wizard. some powergamers may disagree about mental toughness but as its a prerequisite for both prestiges (archmage and palemaster:wraith form) then its valid any way.

[jackel_inognito]

I'm liking the sound of PM since I don't have warforged. However, I'm more concerned with the journey rather than end-game content since I don't know what end-game content there is (highest is a lvl12) And it sounds like PM is more end-game oriented. So, is AM obsolete without warforged?

[Enoach]

Non-Warforged can enjoy AM - the only difference is the Self healing aspect.

What you will get per tier is more SP and cheaper casting of spells in your selected schools. SP on a Wizard - especially a first time wizard with not a lot of hand me down gear is tight. The AM extra SP and SLAs can help slow down the SP bleeding.

[Cauthey]

Pale Masters are pretty popular. But, don't let their popularity lead you to believe that Archmages are obsolete. Apples and oranges, really. When I next do a Wizard life, I'll probably explore the Archmage side of things.

And I would disagree with the feedback that states:

Warforged == Archmage
Fleshie == Pale Master

Warforged can be Pale Masters, too. Some think it a little silly or redundant. But, you'll still leverage warforged immunities as you're not ALWAYS going to be in form, necessarily.

Metalbone of Orien (don't laugh too much at his INT, kay? I know he's somewhat gimped. )

Just the same - fleshies can be archmages. But, you loose the ability to self heal that route.

[danotmano1998]

The above info is pretty much spot on..

I'd like to add the following:

Archmages work well as a WarForged due to self healing.
Fleshies work well as a PaleMaster due to self healing.

Palemasters don't really level up as easily as an Archmage until they get into their forms and get some decent necro spells.


It's really a flavor choice. But not having warforged would make me go PaleMaster all the way. As an archmage fleshie, your self-healing will be sadly lacking.

[jackel_inognito]

Okay. I understand the difference. I am going AM. Build advice is all that I need now.

[butcheredspirit]

I went a fleshie AM.
Maximised, empowered, superior ardord Past Life Cleric has been more than enough so far for healing. Even am able to spot heal the party a bit.


My build went the evocation route, so far i'm level 8 and loving it.
With major kinetic lore, and boosts to spell level have been amazing.
Most things are dead in 1 (cheap) shot.

(there is almost something nostalgic about having magic missile as a signature move)

People seem to dislike both evo archmage, and cleric past life.
They both seem to be pretty cool to me.

I maxed int and con, the rest went into str.

Feats I took were the ones mentioned,
toughness
mental toughness
maximise
empower
s.f evo
(and cleric)

later will probably take
s.f necro
g.s.f. evo and necro

heighten
spell pen
(and one more)


anyway that's what I did on my archmage.

Take bits from it or not if it suits your playstyle. Like you, i'm more interested in the journey to 20.
I Hope you find a build you enjoy.

[Jsbeer]

Okay. I understand the difference. I am going AM. Build advice is all that I need now.

First, as an AM 3SP Heightened Web can be your best friend.

If you are going AM then you should really be Warforged for the self-healing. Max INT, get at least 16 in CON (18 is nice on a 32 point build and not that expensive), and put the rest in STR for early game benefits such as hitting/ carrying things and avoiding enfeeblement, or CHR for late game UMD. All ability level-ups in INT naturally.


This feat order should work out well:

lvl 1 - Toughness
lvl 1w - Maximize Spell
lvl 3 - Mental Toughness
lvl 5w - Extend Spell (*) or Spell Focus: School 2
lvl 6 - Spell Focus: School 1
lvl 9 - Greater Spell Focus: School 1
lvl 10w - Heighten
lvl 12 - (Greater) Spell Focus: School 2 OR Insightful Reflexes
lvl 15 - Spell Penetration
lvl 15w - Quicken Spell
lvl 18 - Greater Spell Penetration
lvl 20w - Empower Spell


Nothing really special to say here - Heighten at chosen 10 when it starts to become useful, and ditto with Quicken, Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration. (Greater) Spell Focus 1 & 2 refer to your primary and secondary school specializations.

(*) It is arguable whether Extend is really necessary later on so feel free to change it (either while levelling or later on) to whichever one of Greater Spell Focus: School 2 OR Insightful Reflexes that you didn't pick. (Remember you can get a single free feat exchange but don't waste that on this early on as it is better saved for late game where feat exchanges are VERY expensive.)

Personally, I'd take Insightful Reflexes at level 12 especially if you already got Spell Focus 2 at level 5w as a high reflex save will save you from an incredible amount of damage, and frequently let you surive multiple burst damage spells long enough to cast a quickened reconstruct.


Core skills should be Concentration, Balance, UMD, and Diplomacy. Rest of them is up to you but as long as you get these you will be fine.


Enhancements are pretty easy to change, so pick what you like (so long as you meet the AM PrE requirements). A link to the PrE requirements and other useful info about AM:

http://ddowiki.com/page/Archmage_enhancements

[goodspeed]

With pale you insta kill stuff. With archmage you cc just about everything and cast some dmg spells as well.

Main thing is until you get wail of the banshee those fingers of death start to add up. And pale doesn't really start until you get your wraith form at lv 12. So alot of wizards tend to go AM until lv 12 or some wait will around 18, then they reset enhancements and go for palemaster with the real prized form lich. (plus you won't run into near as many light casters at end unlike everything whippn some kind of holy spell at you as you level.)

(holy spells like searing light and the like basically pimpslap you if you don't get that undead form off fast enough.)

All up to how ya wanna play your cards.

[Spiffyspiffy]

Pale Masters are pretty popular. But, don't let their popularity lead you to believe that Archmages are obsolete.

That's a funny quote. PM came first. In fact I remember when I TR'ed my sorc to a WF wiz, I still chose to not take PM and had no other option, and now I really like AM.

PMs will be +DC in Necro (but only by 1), and -DC others (but only enchant and conj really matter). Both will instakill just fine, on epic, at basically the same success rates depending on target and equipment.

PM is certainly easymode levelling, as is any WF wiz (who doesn't use an undead form) but endgame the aura really doesn't keep up, and PMs simply will never get outside healing. They're still viable for some things, being a favorite for epic scroll farmers, and mostly the deficiencies can be glossed over but sometimes somebody wants that last 1%.

Also, healing for flesh AM wizards is doable without relying on always grouping. UMD, Halflings with dragonmarks, half elves with a dilly, and cleric PL are all workable. The PL with all feats and a potency clicky is really quite potent.

Two rules though:

Don't be a WF as a PM. It's a waste.
Don't be a Drow as an AM. You're a waste.

[Zachski]

Er.

Palemasters get +2 DC to Necromancy (they need to take both SF and GSF to get Pale Master 3) and an additional +1 DC to all schools (bringing the total up to 3) due to one of their forms granting +2 Int

[Spiffyspiffy]

Er.

Palemasters get +2 DC to Necromancy (they need to take both SF and GSF to get Pale Master 3) and an additional +1 DC to all schools (bringing the total up to 3) due to one of their forms granting +2 Int

AMs can take GSF Necro just fine, and I'd wager most do. I certainly did. That is not a bonus inherent in PM, only the form bonuses are, and really we're only taking lich. AM enhancements, however, give +2 DC to one school and +1 DC to a second - in addition to any feats.

So actually, I was wrong. AM with a primary school of necro matches a lich form PM in DC. My primary is enchant and only my secondary is necro, which is why I remembered a 1 DC difference.

Although, my feats are setup so that I can switch between primary of necro/enchant or even all the way to PM with just an enhancement reset.

[Carpone]

Things to know: Searing Light will kill you in vampire form. You'll learn the hard way when not to be in form, like elite Running with the Devils.

[Lifespawn]

Okay. I understand the difference. I am going AM. Build advice is all that I need now.

Halfling can also offer great self healing with the dragonmarks since your metas work on the first 2 and the third is a heal spell