LET'S TALK: Introduction

[Meat-Head]

General Malphunktion?


True Reincarnation:
IMO the XP requirements remain too high. Levelling TRs is a grind and a chore to me, made better by the bravery bonus but still not there yet. The large XP requirements cause TRing players to be less new-player friendly too - I for one have posted LFMs as obnoxious as 'Zerging, started, people that can't make it here will be publicly mocked' and 'Zerging, elitist jerks only' when I've just wanted to speed up the time I'm stuck playing a class I don't enjoy.
The two things I'd suggest are:
- Let us choose to play as a 32 point build on 'intermediate' lives. 32 build points, 1.9m XP requirements.
- Change tomes that are looted in raids so that they persist through TRing. Unbound tomes would continue to be destroyed upon use, but bound tomes would not be 'used up', meaning you could use it again on your next life.

These are particularly great ideas imo.

[TEcarson]

Thank you Mr. Floyd. This is exciting news, just you posting here proves that the Devs DO listen to the forumites.

I have one suggestion, could the Major get a promotion? I think he's due for the rank of Lt Col. Of course Lt Col Malphunktion doesn't have the same ring.

Maybe General Chaos?

[BOgre]

Some of the topics on my mind are:
- class balance
- overall difficulty of content
- bugs
- AC
- Ranged combat
- Challenges
- True Reincarnation
- Strengths & weaknesses of the game
- where we're headed

Mad,

1st, Thanks for being here, and thanks for asking.

I have intentionally not read any of the responses yet; I want to reply without being influenced. I wish I had more constructive criticism, instead of just criticism, but here's what I've got:

- class balance
The feeling for me on the surface is that casters are overpowered, melees are getting the shaft, specialists are an afterthought, and healers are suffering too much from the cost of party healing. You've heard all that before, I'm sure. But I think it's a factor of party roles. That is, it'd be okay for a Fighter to know he can't wipe out an entire room the way a Sorcerer can, if he was secure in his role as single target DPS or AC tank. So fighters need more love in that respect, or in other words: Fix AC. A healer has already made the choice to be a support class, to heal the party. They need some love with respect to the cost of their profession. Raising mob/boss HP is all well and good, if not a little cheap, but our Clerics are bearing the brunt of that decision. Specialists aren't very special anymore. Rangers need a spell pass (there are a couple threads here and there, PM me if you'd like a list of the ones I've got subscribed), and ranged combat in general could use some work. Rogues, well, I'd say the problem with the Rogue is that they're optional. Most traps can be avoided, stealth is hardly an afterthought in most quests. We all love to splash a level or two of rogue, but a really well built rogue is often underestimated as DPS, overlooked or ignored as trapper. Most quests could use a complete overhaul in terms of trap deadliness, and some quests would benefit from requiring stealth, not as an optional, but as a must. I've left out casters, because I think they're doing fine, except that they, and ALL the classes, need completed PrEs.

- overall difficulty of content
This has been discussed in any number of threads. I think Shade's tiered Epic idea is a good one. I think Normal difficulty should be completable by casual, random loot gen, at-level players. It seems that most content past level 14 or so is NOT.

- bugs
I hate that bugs make it to live. I hate that adding a new feature on top of old code breaks a hundred things. It shouldn't. I'd love to know that you have a dozen play testers and bug hunters, I'd love to see Lammania put to better use in that area. I'd love to see bugs that have been identified on Lamma get squashed before patch day.
I don't know what your priorities are for which to fix when, but I'd guess that anything that affects a game mechanic, like Destruction/Improved Destruction, Handwraps, item and weapon effects, and of course in-quest bugs like bosses stuck in walls and such, these should be on the very top of the list. These should be fixed, killed, squashed, beaten to a pulp within DAYS of their being identified, not weeks, months or years later. If new content has to be delayed because a particular bug can't be properly fixed, then so be it. NEVER build new code on top of old bugs.

- AC
The best idea I've seen on the subject is Sirgog's. I can't think of a thing to add.

- Ranged combat
A ranger should be the master of ranged combat. Arguments about rangers dealing damage outside of threat range are ridiculous, in light of what a caster can do. Ignore these arguments. There are already plenty of game mechanics in place to make overuse of high DPS ranged damage dangerous. Kiting mobs away from your tanks and center of healing, spreading out concentrated mobs, breaking CC, and so on, are all factors that casters already have to consider when dealing a ton of ranged damage, an archer has the same decisions to make. So: Rework multi-shot to fit into BAB, as has been detailed in the ranged threads. Give AAs and DWSs the tools to do their job FULL time, without the NEED to switch to melee weapons. This is important: Bows are not ONLY a ranged weapon. Yes, a Tempest has every reason to put down the bow and whip out the Khopshes, but an AA shouldn't have to, and a Sniper should be able to park his butt on a ledge and insta kill the single mobs threatening the party healer, or the CC caster, or the nuker, or the enemy's line of rangers harassing the party from their own sniper nests.

- Challenges
I've tried to like them. I wish I had some input, but all I've got is complaints, and you've heard all those before. Shade's tiered epic difficulty idea comes to mind as a fix, but other than that, the only suggestion I'd make is to drop the price of the pack in half, bump the timers a bit the lower difficulties, spread out the ingredients a bit. I'd like a chance to get any ingredient from any challenge, rather than having to grind the same couple of challenges over and over. Especially heinous in light of the way free tokens work.

- True Reincarnation
I haven't yet, but I'd wish that the tomes I've read would come with me when I do.

- Strengths & weaknesses of the game
Strengths:
Combat, Instances, Character customization. I'm sure you know this already, but most of the best selling mmos have nothing remotely close to DDO in these areas. WoW's combat is a joke, the game is so boring it's painful. Any class/race combo in WoW ends up looking and working exactly like any other. Pointless. Vast explorer areas full of wandering kill-thieves is not good. DDO has this part mastered. Thank you!!!
Weaknesses:
Storytelling and Immersion, Advertising. OK, if you're a D&D fan, the sound of a DM's voice telling you that you hear a metal grate sliding on stone is pretty cool. But I'm not sitting at a table with my makeshift privacy board, dice, chewed up pencil, and pewter minis. I'm playing a video game, and if a metal grate slides across stone, I want to hear it in full 5.1, you know? Ditto for NPCs. There's a million actors out of work or serving coffee or driving cabs. I bet one or two of them might do decent voice over work.
And, if the storytelling and immersion were there, and you advertised even HALF as much as WoW does, I'd bet you'd never have to worry about underpopulated servers ever again.

- where we're headed
Hey, you've got what few franchises could ever hope to have: a blank slate. Eberron is pretty much wide open for you. There's literally no end to the stories you can tell, the environments you could visit, the baddies you could summon. So:
More Snakes.
More Dragons.
Manticores.
Lycanthropes.
Tarrasque. No, seriously, don't add these! I have nightmares

[sephiroth1084]

I REALLY appreciate this move, MF! Props to you for putting this up.

I will definitely be participating in those discussions.

[Ungood]

Well Met MadFloyd.

Since this is an Introductory of the coming discussions, I would like to first and foremost "You've got guts"

Sure, I mean it not like we are going to hurl physical objects at you, but, make no mistake, allowing us to air our grievances with the game at you, takes some gumption, and I hope that good things come of this.

Thank you.

[Coldin]

Awesome Mad. These threads might actually get me to come out of my lurking status. I do hope these will also come with two way communication. Discussing ideas with other players is nice, but I do appreciate knowing our ideas and thoughts are heard and how they might affect the game.

[NexEverto]

2011 has been an interesting year, but definitely bumpy in many respects. We need to do better in 2012.

Some of the topics on my mind are:
- class balance
- overall difficulty of content
- bugs
- AC
- Ranged combat
- Challenges
- True Reincarnation
- Strengths & weaknesses of the game
- where we're headed

Bugs, Ranged Combat, and Challenges?! Three of my favorite and most passionate topics! Oh MF... You poor thing, I hope you realize you've just given me a great reason to pester you personally! I look forward to spamming you with walls of text, screen shots, and lists of every known bug!

Till then, I wish you and the rest of the Turbine crew a safe, happy, and enjoyable holidays, and look forward to 2012, which I hope will be your most productive year yet!

[GermanicusMaximus]

The major difference between then and now is casters were doing 95% of the work but allowing melee to collect the kill count tally then, while now casters can do all the work and reap all the kills now.

Melee was piking the entire time, both then and now. They were also demanding casters have a 44 DC to join groups, then waffled when 44 NECRO DC was what was brought to the table.

"No no no, I dont want you to kill it, I want you to make it harmless so I can kill it. I had a wizard, barbarian, coupla bards, and a rogue back then, and I thought playing a melee was equally as boring during those times as it is now.

Cant wait for the individual threads.

Chai, some people in the game really have a strange love/hate relationship with casters, not only arcane but divine as well.

"Nerf those rascally divine casters! But people will still play them, right? And they will still be able to hjeal me?"

Those same people wonder why there is a shortage of divines in the game, and why such a large percentage of them are anonymous

[dkyle]

Chai, some people in the game really have a strange love/hate relationship with casters, not only arcane but divine as well.

"Nerf those rascally divine casters! But people will still play them, right? And they will still be able to hjeal me?"

Those same people wonder why there is a shortage of divines in the game, and why such a large percentage of them are anonymous

My FvS is one of my most played characters right now, and I absolutely think FvS is overpowered. It's ridiculous how much DPS she can put out, sustainably, while also being massively more self sufficient than a pure melee class. Not to mention being able to keep a whole party up if needed.

Good balance makes a game better. That's it. It's not about jealousy or envy.

[GermanicusMaximus]

And that's why having stuff for the top 5% is important. I also it's important important for 95% to have a sense that there is some sort of future for them to work towards.

Agreed, there should be content in the game that meets the needs of ALL the players. Introductory content for new players. Amazingly difficult content for the very best players. Content for every level in between so that players can gradually work through the system to the highest level their skill allows them to reach.

The biggest difficiency is lack of content at the higher levels. Levels 17+ is a barren desert compared to what it should be.

[Phemt81]

"you've got guts"

thank you.

+1

discussing ideas with other players is nice, but i do appreciate knowing our ideas and thoughts are heard and how they might affect the game.

+100

[Tygre]

...(it might be read here or might need to be posted in the to-be discussion threads)

Difficulty: scaling needs work in some areas... when it is better to run a mission solo or duo than with a full party the implementation might need work... (i.e. Weapons Shipment)

TR: keeping tomes used... having the Completionist feat occupy a free feat slot (I figure if any one gets that far, they've earned it)... the last level xp seems stiffer than it needs to be

[Memnir]

2011 has been an interesting year, but definitely bumpy in many respects. We need to do better in 2012.

****, I wish you'd created this thread a year ago. A year ago I would have still cared enough to answer you in detail. As it is, 2011 has just left me feeling dead inside to DDO. I just don't have enough "Give a Hoot" in me to engage in this. It's too late, in my opinion.


Bumpy? No. I'd use a different, much stronger word to describe 2011. One banned here on the forums.
I also have no faith left in me that this conversation will lead to anything positive... if anything at all.



But yes, you do need to do better in 2012. My only suggestion is to do like George Costanza did, when he wanted to change his life. He did the opposite of every first impulse he had. And it worked. Maybe it's time that the powers-that-be at Turbine did likewise...

[Tolastun]

My observations:

- class balance
Class Balance is good overall but some classes dominate at low levels (Artificers) then start to have problems, others are great at mid levels (Monks) and then others are considered gods (Favored Souls, Sorcs) at end game.

- overall difficulty of content
very good with the exception of a few quests, they seem to be way too easy (even for first time players) or so extreme that you only find them ran once at 20 for the favor. it should be a even balance of difficulty through the leveling curve.

- bugs
Major issue here. some bugs seem to be around for years and appear to have not been touched at all, others pop up after a patch that require a quick hotfix. there appears to be a push for the game to throw out new content and not have it tested correctly. Even Patches don't seem to fix everything that claims to be fixed (12.2 is a great and recent example on that)

- AC
AC has no real meaning for most of my toons, its either high enough you don't get touched or completely ignored as not a factor. Many healers will probably agree that players feel its easier to get hit and stack for something like spell pen/seeker/etc.... that will do something to up our damage rather then stack for 2 points of AC that has no effect on our survivability. a Caster who has a orthon pop up next to him in ToD has no choice but to take a hit because they cant get their AC up to a point where it will matter, so why bother.

- Ranged combat
Ranged combat is ok overall imho

- Challenges
unless you have a dedicated group that knows what its doing, you quite often get shunned and find it hard to get a good group. i have barely stepped foot into the challenges due to the frustration factor i find with them, they are laggy, buggy in some cases, and overall a royal pain.

- True Reincarnation
very nice feature that allows you to keep interest in a toon after you get them decked out while keeping a bonus. personally i think DDO Store tomes and BTC Tomes should carry over upon TRing and at the proper level you get the bonus (+1 at 3, +2 at 7, etc)

- Strengths & weaknesses of the game
Strengths: re-playability on a MMO and varied content
Weaknesses: Bugs and Exploits.

- where we're headed
would like more contact from Devs on what is going on with future content for player base feedback.

- Other (yes, i added this)
a survey for GMs after a in game ticket so we can see if they helped us, didn't help us or anything that we feel might be improved upon. on more then one occasion i have had a ticket closed without any reason given and then told if i opened a third ticket to talk to a GM (on my second one) that my account would be sanctioned.

longer test times on the test server for the final builds

the ability to test for exploits and report them via the test server forum (if i found one that happened due to standing in a certain spot and facing a certain way (that's a fictitious example) that gave me +4 Tomes in a korthos chest, i would want to figure out what caused it and report it so others would be able to replicate it and get that fixed. as it stands now, i would send in a ticket (on a buggy system) and move on due to the nature of the rules in place)

more accountability for exploiters, as it stands now, some exploits are being felt as needed to be done to stay competitive and since the recent issues, its felt that a slap on the wrist is all that will happen to people (which is pretty much what has happened)

[Ganolyn]

****, I wish you'd created this thread a year ago. A year ago I would have still cared enough to answer you in detail. As it is, 2011 has just left me feeling dead inside to DDO. I just don't have enough "Give a Hoot" in me to engage in this. It's too late, in my opinion.


Bumpy? No. I'd use a different, much stronger word to describe 2011. One banned here on the forums.
I also have no faith left in me that this conversation will lead to anything positive... if anything at all.

Well MF seems to be putting a lot of effort into this if it is all for nothing. Mem, you are one of the most positive people on these forums. I urge you to give them a chance to impress you before you throw the baby out with the bathwater. If they fail to, you can always dig up your post with a hearty "I told you so".

[JOTMON2]

- class balance - should be more about party balance than class balance, every class has strengths and weaknesses that are supposed to be complimented by other classes. Keep this in mind when looking at class balancing.

- overall difficulty of content Don't balance quests to epic geared parties running lower level content .. they should be cakewalking them. Balance the difficulty for at level non-tr well geared competent party of 5(allways leave room for the piker)


- bugs !!!!! Fix them, Log and track them with tracking numbers when reported, respond back to bug reporters with progress either by direct emails or in the forums. I have bugs from 3 years ago and my only response from these are "thank your for your bug report".. then crickets.. no tracking number no follow up... feels like it went straight to the junkmail bin. Better QA before releasing content to live. Disable bugged content discouvered in Lamannia and dont let it go live until it works properly. Test new items to ensure they perform as described, half azzed releases make you look like idiots.

- AC - bring it back but fix bugs first. Fix rangers while you are at it( and give them pets)

- Ranged combat. Repeater rogues need some love. let them craft trap effect bolts.

- Challenges.. personally not a fan, but whatever..

- True Reincarnation- Change tomes so that when they are read they become BTC and do not disappear. TR's can re-read them if they keep them in the banks, for future re-use. Default in prior life settings for cosmetics and screen positions for hotbars.

- Strengths & weaknesses of the game
- STR- dnd core ruleset, combat system, teamwork to run quests.
- Weaknesses Neutered GM's that seem like minimum wage call center lackeys more interesteed in listening to their ipods than dealing with player issues. No GM should ever close a ticket without talking to the player, no canned responses. add a "was my GM helpful" checklist to the end of a ticket.

- where we're headed
- doom... poor server maintenance, lag, increase in unresolved bugs, terrible GM service, poor customer service, a gereral feeling that Turbine staff have no interest in the player base concerns. If it wasnt such a unique game enjoyed by dedicated players it would die the death of everquest. Please dont let this happen. Fix the bugs, bring out the Druid and Gnome and better epic content. Stop sloppy programming (like double teleport from the 12, not relocating the teleport to the crafting house from house K to house C...etc...), revitalize the system, reinvest the money we have paid into this game back into the game..

.....and remember we complain because we care.....

[die]

MadFloyd...thanks for taking this on...it is long over due.


Happy holidays and get some rest you're going to need it!

/signed... Hi rune Merry Christmas.. and Merry Christmas too you and your MadFloyd

[GermanicusMaximus]

My FvS is one of my most played characters right now, and I absolutely think FvS is overpowered. It's ridiculous how much DPS she can put out, sustainably, while also being massively more self sufficient than a pure melee class. Not to mention being able to keep a whole party up if needed.

Good balance makes a game better. That's it. It's not about jealousy or envy.

Congrats on playing a high player skill, high impact toon. Based upon your join date, I would expect you to be doing so.

Balance and equality are most definitely not the same thing. I wouldn't make the case that the classes are equal. Quite frankly, if they were I would consider it a major issue.

Playing a caster, either arcane or divine, is a high player skill position. If you roll a caster, you are in a tough competition to establish yourself as the best of the best. A mediocre (or worse) caster is useless in this game. Finding groups that will accept you will be next to impossible, and eventually the toon will become either a mule or deleted.

High risk, high reward, in terms of game impact.

The average melee toon? Sorry, melee just don't scale with player skill the way casters do. If they did, Shade would actually be a god

For a fair number of melee toons in this game, player skill = turn on auto attack. The next level up is hold down left mouse button. There are certainly players who exceed that, but they are the minority.

The upside is that as a melee player you can play at this lower skill level and still get accepted into groups.

If we actually want to make melee and casters truly equal in this game, I'm fine with that. Step #1 is making melee scale with player skill level the way casters do.

Oops! What do we do with the percentage of the player base who now have neither the player skill to play a melee or a caster? I like having these players in the game, and they certainly are helpful to Turbine in achieving its revenue goals.

I suppose we could just make melee equal to casters, without actually requiring melee to have the same skill as casters. At that point, DDO has now become a children's game. I'm a little too old to be playing a children's game, as is the majority of the DDO player base.

Understanding the underlying mechanics makes it fairly simple to understand that melee and casters, while not equal, are indeed balanced.

[Memnir]

If they fail to, you can always dig up your post with a hearty "I told you so".

I've had my fill of those.

How many of those have to be tolerated before one can justifiably give up? Because I hit my internal limit around June or July. And things have only gotten worse since that time, and my faith and hope in a turnaround has been spent by now. Dried up and blown away.


Granted, it's nice that this thread exists and I hope it yields a glorious harvest of results. But, this needed to be done a long time ago. Efforts like this are best made before things hit a crisis point, and rarely work after. To me at least, U11 and especially U12 represent a crisis point that has finally reached a roiling boil. Maybe this will be the exception. But, there is a track-record here that would be folly to ignore. I'm done pretending that track-record doesn't exist, and correspondingly my faith in this effort is super low.

[sirgog]

And that's why having stuff for the top 5% is important. I also it's important important for 95% to have a sense that there is some sort of future for them to work towards.

There actually is a lot of content designed for high-level casual players, it's just that there's no real indication given when you ding 20 as to what is the easier and harder content, and most of the easier high level content doesn't really prepare you for the harder stuff should your goal as a player be to graduate up to it.

Example: Consider a casual player that dings 20. IMO the following content is designed for them:

- Inspired Quarter, all difficulties. Mindsunder Elite might be too tough to get down without a few tries.
- Dreaming Dark quests, all difficulties.
- Amrath flagging quests on Casual or Normal.
- Vale walkups, Hard and Elite
- Shroud and Sub-T raids, Normal (HoX might be too tough).
- House C flagging quests, Casual through Hard
- House C explorer areas (all three)
- House P epic dungeons, probably excluding Small Problem
- Sentinels epic dungeons, definitely excluding Spies in the House


The problem is that out of those quests, the only ones that really provides a foundation of equipment and tactical experience that might help them in something harder (say nLOB) are Shroud, Amrath walkups (for the Con 6 GFL belts) and more recently the House P epics. Several of the others have really niche loot (Mindsunder/epic Sentinels), or just offer no alternatives to old 'must-have' items like Minos Legens. In particular, I can only think of two items from those chains that offer Heavy Fortification (Full Plate of the Defender from VOD, Supreme Tyrant Mineral items from Shroud) - both located in raids that you usually would not attempt without 100% Fort.

The most important items for such a casual player to obtain are located in much lower level content - Minos Legens from Orchard slayer, Torc of Raiyum from ADQ2, and +6 stat rings that might need to be swapped around as other items are replaced.


TLR: The game would be more newbie-friendly if, on dinging 20, it was made clearer 'what to do next'.