Make Shards/Seals unbound

[somenewnoob]

I like this concept, though I'll one-up you

- Make them unbound
- Make the item require 10 epic dungeon tokens in addition to the seal/shard/scroll
- Epic raid items will require 5 dungeon and 5 epic raid tokens instead
- Lower the cost of augments

And for the love of god make it so that tokens and fragments are untradeable. If that means they can't go in bags ever, so be it.

An excellent suggestion for an excellent suggestion!

[k1ngp1n]

This is the problem with eliminating so-called "grind".

You sure about that?

[somenewnoob]

snip
This is the problem with eliminating so-called "grind". If you don't replace it with something else, you accomplish little. And that something else generally means new content, which takes a lot of time and money to produce.snip

Well, for me, I wouldn't stick around a game just to grind, to keep my business a game NEEDS to add new content. I was glad they added the high end content and raids lately. THAT is what will keep me playing, not a mind numbing grind for ultra rare drops. So they better go ahead and spend that time and money on new content, or they lose my money and my time gets spent elsewhere. I can't imagine I'm the only one who feels that way.

[Xandrel]

Unbound Epic shards/seals does sound like a grand idea. But perhaps smaller steps first, to minimize the impact.

At the very least I would have to offer a few other item changes while discussing this idea

Epic shards/seals = Unbound
DT Runes = BtA
Shavarath Stones = BtA

End game grind is why I dont play end game that much. This would help with that and let me play rahter than hunt/grind.

EDITED: Fixed my thinking

[brian14]

When epic was first released it was released as the mother of all time-sinks to keep the addicted players around while more content was coming out.

Now this is SO much stuff to do at end came there just isn't time to do it all.

Anything that lowers stupid and repetitive grind is a good thing.

I ran a few epic quests for the express purpose of getting ONE Epic Token, so I could finish my Mabar cloak.

I came to conclusion they ARE a timesink, and have no intention of running them again, ever.

If seals/shards become unbound, I might consider epic quests.

/signed

[somenewnoob]

I ran a few epic quests for the express purpose of getting ONE Epic Token, so I could finish my Mabar cloak.

I came to conclusion they ARE a timesink, and have no intention of running them again, ever.

If seals/shards become unbound, I might consider epic quests.

/signed

Aye, I am exceptionally bored with end game stuff right now, it just feels pointless and like a grindy timesink. If I could trade some of the shinies that come out of it, I think I would be more inclined to run more stuff.

[DeafeningWhisper]

What do you assume people will trade for the seals/shards? Likely other seals/shards, larges, etc... Those are all obtained by grinding. I don't see a loss of players because the grind has gone it away because it hasn't. Under your theory the game lost a dramatic number of players because of the scroll trade in mechanic.

All this idea does is potentially remove some of the headache involved.

I agree with that statement, it will move the grind not remove it. Basically you get to grind the Epics you want then trade the seals/shards for the seals/shards of the quests you don't want to run.

I know people who run Red Fens Epics daily, I hate the quests there but some of the items are nice, I run House D Epics pretty often on the other hands so been able to trade for those would be nice.

[Qaliya]

Aye, I am exceptionally bored with end game stuff right now, it just feels pointless and like a grindy timesink. If I could trade some of the shinies that come out of it, I think I would be more inclined to run more stuff.

And once you have your shinies, then what?

[Thrudh]

Well, for me, I wouldn't stick around a game just to grind, to keep my business a game NEEDS to add new content. I was glad they added the high end content and raids lately. THAT is what will keep me playing, not a mind numbing grind for ultra rare drops. So they better go ahead and spend that time and money on new content, or they lose my money and my time gets spent elsewhere. I can't imagine I'm the only one who feels that way.

You're not the only one... If the mind-numbing sands epic grind was the only thing left for me, I'd leave.

I don't particularly like the other epics grind that much, but the items are easier to get... And since I'm still looking for tokens to slot out the few epic items I do have, I don't mind getting skunked 10 times in a row in a particular quest (because at least I got 10 epic tokens)

[somenewnoob]

And once you have your shinies, then what?

Then I'll get some more shinies for my other toons!

I don't mind a bit of grind, for things like Shroud (even though my end rewards are still epically cursed!), because I know I can get extra ingreds I don't want/need and trade them for the ones I do want or need. I like being able to do that and also for helping other people out in teh guild who need stuff that I have extra of.

But the epic loot system as it is now has zero appeal for me. So really, I am at a "Then what?" point right now the way it is.

[Thrudh]

Epic shards/seals = BtA

This is already true..

DT Runes = BtA
Shavarath Stones = BtA

I'd love to see that.

[Xandrel]

And once you have your shinies, then what?

Actually a lot of us TR, those shinnies may not work for the next class.

In this case I would have to work on acquiring new shinnies. It is still a perpetual machine, but with less grind.

[somenewnoob]

Here's the kind of grind I like... Shroud, epic tokens, Crystal Cove, Challenge crafting, Cannith crafting... Every run, you're getting closer and closer to your goal... Even raid loot falls into this category because even if you don't get an item, you're always getting closer to the next 20, 40, etc. list.

YES. This right here. Your making progress.....it's not waiting to get lucky and win the lottery.

If I pick up a few shards/seals and I know I can later trade them for ones I want, that is making progress!

[Xandrel]

This is already true..

My bad... see how much I deal with epic stuff. Ok then the next step up would be unbound.

[Thrudh]

And once you have your shinies, then what?

Gotta fill those augment slots.. And then new items come out, and you have to reshuffle your entire inventory.

And of course, there are always alts and TRs...

Playing the same game as a wizard or a cleric instead of a melee is a very different experience.

Right now, the game is balanced around the 60/hour a week person... I'd rather it was balanced around the 20/hour a week person (I'm a 10/hour a week person myself).

There's a lot more to do in this game than when the epic system was released. It's not a bad idea to revisit the grindiness of epics.

[DeafeningWhisper]

And once you have your shinies, then what?

Let me answer you with a question, is the fact you can trade Shroud mats making it so people rarely run this quest?

[k1ngp1n]

I would be more in favor of that.

Don't forget that what you want is irrelevant, it is what the majority of the customer base wants that matters.



Cue assumptive comments regarding the silent masses.

[Thrudh]

Getting tokens is ridiculously easy.

So is completing Shroud... 30 epic quests (assuming you only do the ones that drop a full token) is easy, but it definitely takes some time...

I'm lucky to run 3-4 epics a week... It takes me 10 weeks to slot out an epic item...

Am I the average? No... but I don't think the game should be balanced around the guy who can get 30 tokens in 3 days either.

Perhaps a more moderate solution would be instituting something like the "every 20" mechanism for epics. I would be more in favor of that.

I'd be 100% for that...

[Thrudh]

Let me answer you with a question, is the fact you can trade Shroud mats making it so people rarely run this quest?

Heh, good point...

[voodoogroves]

Personally, my suggestion was based on a few things

- The cat is out of the bag. Done is done. Why demonize ... let's just open it up. That said, I do want (a) controls and (b) some reward for effort.



- I rarely run Big Top any more because I ran it like crazy a while back and I'm rich with shards. I'm not sure I'll need another House P shard for a long, long time.
.... If things were more generically tradeable then I might, even if they are "easier" and go 3-1 or 5-1 for harder shards and I still get tokens.
.... this means running it isn't "mostly pointless"
.... hopefully this doesn't remove effort, but shift it from "specific" quest-based to a more generic



- I do want some limitations and controls. There needs to be some sort of mapping the gain to the effort.
.... if the seals/etc. go unbound, there needs to be some AT A MINIMUM account-based effort required. I like the idea for tokens.
.... given the call for lowering slot costs, it may be easier to fit out an epic item you can make ... that's great, but the item itself shouldn't be an automatic easy button ... so I increased the cost from the original suggestion of 3 to 10
.... raid items (and by this I mean items for which today the seal only drops in a raid) are special and need to remain so and should require investment in that level of quest