if you had to dip 1 level for UMD what class would you choose?

[Wildseed]

I am splashing artificer into my build because the build has a blue bar from paladin, and I get more mana from it, so, I would say it depends on what you wanna do with the other levels, I splashed bard on my sorc for the extra UMD and probably wouldn't change it now that artificer is out because both are cha based. So, I'd say think about it and decide.

[TDarkchylde]

Rogue:

Pros - LOTS of skill points, LOTS of class skills besides UMD, 1d6+3 sneak attack with enhancements, no alignment restrictions, limited free Martial proficiency (Rapier, Shortsword, Shortbow), F2P class, Skill, Damage and Haste Boosts
Cons - No bluebar, scrolling Master's Touch doesn't affect THF weapons or bows

Arty:

Pros - Small bluebar based off of INT, proficiency in any Martial weapon (including DAxes for Dwarves) via castable Master's Touch, bonus to scroll UMD and CL, limited elemental damage boosts via enhancements, access to Repair, Stoneskin and Resist Energy (all levels) wands (to name some) with no UMD required, no alignment restrictions, free Repeater proficiency (and unlimited ammo via Conjure Bolts), access to Echoes of Power due to Magical Training feat, Skill and Damage Boost
Cons - P2P class (though Favor unlockable), UMD required for some popular Arcane wands like Blur and Shield, few direct boosts to melee, no Haste Boost

Bard:

Pros - Small bluebar based off of CHA, proficiency in any Martial weapon via castable Master's Touch, access to Cure and some popular Arcane wands (such as Blur or Invis) with no UMD required, F2P class, baby Fascinate, access to Perform
Cons - Alignment-restricted (can't be Lawful), smaller blue bar than Arty, no Echoes of Power due to no Magical Training feat, most class skills duplicated with Rogue (exceptions Perform, Concentration and Heal), no class boosts


From there, take your pick.

[CoasterHops]

I am in my final life for my WF melee 12mk/7fighter/1 something, previous TR was 12mk/8fighter and I loved it, the only problem was that it lacked a little bit of self sufficiency.

As a melee DPS is top notch, I don't really need the Rogue lvl for the sneak, also it runs alot of hate, mainly built as a tank Earth Stance III/Stalwart I.

Would going Arti net me more to my UMD than splashing rog at 20? If so then maybe I will change my original plan and plug arti in as the 20th level instead of rogue.

[voodoogroves]

Rogue:

Pros - LOTS of skill points, LOTS of class skills besides UMD, 1d6+3 sneak attack with enhancements, no alignment restrictions, limited free Martial proficiency (Rapier, Shortsword, Shortbow), F2P class, Skill, Damage and Haste Boosts
Cons - No bluebar, scrolling Master's Touch doesn't affect THF weapons or bows

Arty:

Pros - Small bluebar based off of INT, proficiency in any Martial weapon (including DAxes for Dwarves) via castable Master's Touch, bonus to scroll UMD and CL, limited elemental damage boosts via enhancements, access to Repair, Stoneskin and Resist Energy (all levels) wands (to name some) with no UMD required, no alignment restrictions, free Repeater proficiency (and unlimited ammo via Conjure Bolts), access to Echoes of Power due to Magical Training feat, Skill and Damage Boost
Cons - P2P class (though Favor unlockable), UMD required for some popular Arcane wands like Blur and Shield, few direct boosts to melee, no Haste Boost

Bard:

Pros - Small bluebar based off of CHA, proficiency in any Martial weapon via castable Master's Touch, access to Cure and some popular Arcane wands (such as Blur or Invis) with no UMD required, F2P class, baby Fascinate, access to Perform
Cons - Alignment-restricted (can't be Lawful), smaller blue bar than Arty, no Echoes of Power due to no Magical Training feat, most class skills duplicated with Rogue (exceptions Perform, Concentration and Heal), no class boosts


From there, take your pick.

Everyone dismisses focusing chant on bard dips ... stacking +1 to skills and attacks rolls.

I am in my final life for my WF melee 12mk/7fighter/1 something, previous TR was 12mk/8fighter and I loved it, the only problem was that it lacked a little bit of self sufficiency.

As a melee DPS is top notch, I don't really need the Rogue lvl for the sneak, also it runs alot of hate, mainly built as a tank Earth Stance III/Stalwart I.

Would going Arti net me more to my UMD than splashing rog at 20? If so then maybe I will change my original plan and plug arti in as the 20th level instead of rogue.

Honestly, at that point you need better gear. Have you put ranks into UMD so far? You may be better off eating a +2 INT tome and LRnig and making sure you toss points into UMD.

11 ranks (1/2 rank a level)
1 charisma (from a 6 charisma base and a +6 item)
1 charisma (eating a +2 tome on top of that +6 item)
1 charisma (exceptional +2 CHA slotted somewhere)
4 GH (get a planar gird)
2 good luck (head of good fortune, epic slotted item, whatever)
3 competence item (cannith crafted persuasion, golden cartouche, epic spare hand)
3 enchantment item (epic big top, epic T3 cove spyglass)
1 boat CHA +2 shrine

That's a 27 UMD

+6 charisma skills greensteel triple positive clothing item for swapping in (with a bonus raise dead clickie)

that's a 33 UMD with some grind yet minimally so gear - no seven fingered gloves from Titan, no +4 CHA tome, yugo pots, litany. That's about a 75% chance on reconstruct/heal scrolls.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Use_magic_device

I'm assuming dark monk; light can do walk on the sun and moment of clarity for another +7 stacking


EDIT: Bard isn't an option for you, FYI. Non-lawful only ... arti or rogue. If you had to do it, I'd probably do arti.

[TDarkchylde]

Everyone dismisses focusing chant on bard dips ... stacking +1 to skills and attacks rolls.

The duration's pretty short with only a single level of Bard - it's almost a half-boost with a few more uses at that point. It's kind of hard to keep going. It could be sustained longer if you had a larger bluebar (Rangers come to mind) and wasted a feat on Extend. Very few builds will do both without gimping themselves.

[Emili]

...
11 ranks (1/2 rank a level)
...

The splash of an LR+1 offers him more than what an LR could bring...

He may want the full 23 ranks (so opt placing 2 skill points per cross-class level into UMD - Monk for instance have decent sp per level)... Just a splash of a class opens the MAX you may cap skills - you just need to double up points on those cross-class levels = Start at 4 ranks of umd then use two skill points from then on per lvl = 23

Monk have a decent skill point pool so they can double up the skill points used per lvl and achieve max ranks in UMD if they wished.

Rule of thumb for the skill minded:

For any "SPLASH" character build is to take the class with the highest amount of skill points (and skill set you're emphasising) at first level - gaining all those bonus base skill points. - At level start your UMD rank at 4.

Always eat a +2 InT tome at lvl 7 (God I miss my non-ml tomes)

So...

23 ranks <- 4 at level one + 19 levels with (2sp invested every level)
1 charisma (from a 6 charisma base and a +6 item)
1 charisma (eating a +2 tome on top of that +6 item)
1 charisma (exceptional +2 CHA slotted somewhere)
4 GH (get a planar gird)
2 good luck (head of good fortune, epic slotted item, whatever)
3 competence item (cannith crafted persuasion, golden cartouche, epic spare hand)
3 enchantment item (epic big top, epic T3 cove spyglass)
1 boat CHA +2 shrine
===
39 <- 95% chance Heal/Recon/Resurection Scroll (115% chance on raise dead)

[goodspeed]

id go arti just for wand use as well as the umd. Wand of stoneskin.

[Jaid314]

Rule of thumb for the skill minded:

For any "SPLASH" character build is to take the class with the highest amount of skill points (and skill set you're emphasising) at first level - gaining all those bonus base skill points. - At level start your UMD rank at 4.

not sure i entirely agree with that. it really depends on how many of those skills available you actually want to have at high ranks.

for example, a rogue with 8 base int eating a tome at level 7 can gain 16 skill points to put entirely into UMD if they pick up those levels at 12 and 13. putting the first level as rogue and the second at, say, 9, will get you 28 skill points at level 1 and 8 skill points at 9... but only 12 of those can go into UMD. now, if you were thinking you'd like UMD, and would also like balance, jump, haggle and tumble at low levels, plus full trap skills, then yes it's a good idea to put in the high-skill class at level 1. but that's not always the case. if all the OP cares about is UMD, then it's best to take the 1 level of whatever it is at higher levels, unless their int is low enough to bring it to 4 or lower that they'd gain from taking it later. in the case of rogue, this will never happen (it might happen for bard or arti i guess?)

[Emili]

not sure i entirely agree with that. it really depends on how many of those skills available you actually want to have at high ranks.

for example, a rogue with 8 base int eating a tome at level 7 can gain 16 skill points to put entirely into UMD if they pick up those levels at 12 and 13. putting the first level as rogue and the second at, say, 9, will get you 28 skill points at level 1 and 8 skill points at 9... but only 12 of those can go into UMD. now, if you were thinking you'd like UMD, and would also like balance, jump, haggle and tumble at low levels, plus full trap skills, then yes it's a good idea to put in the high-skill class at level 1. but that's not always the case. if all the OP cares about is UMD, then it's best to take the 1 level of whatever it is at higher levels, unless their int is low enough to bring it to 4 or lower that they'd gain from taking it later. in the case of rogue, this will never happen (it might happen for bard or arti i guess?)

Key emphasis I stressed is on the x4 and skill set... and yes of course max ranks is level +3. How is it best to take the first level of Rogue at higher level - all other aspects of the character remain the same come 20 - is finite.

Artificer: 4sp + int mod (x4) bonus at level 1

Bard: 6sp + int mod (x4) bonus at level 1

Fighter: 2sp + int mod (x4) bonus at level 1

Monk: 4sp + int mod (x4) bonus at level 1

Rogue: 8sp + int mod (x4) bonus at level 1

ie. WF melee 12mk/7fighter/1something...

The difference in the 1 something being Rogue taken at level one or at a level higher come level 20 is nothing but skill points (and thus more skills with higher ranks for the vuild which too a rogue level at level one - all feating and other aspects being the same).

Monk and Arty have the same skill point pool but many differening in class skill sets (interesting concentration is an in class Arty and Monk skill, slight synergy in using up less skill point spend there for aquiring ranks) then Arty has Artificer Knowledge (+2 umd and +1 caster level on scrolls) along with construct mastery ... of course Rogue have the SA and rest of monk skills spend open to it.

So the question is do you want the same end character but less ranks across skills? Why would you?

[Jaid314]

Key emphasis I stressed is on the x4 and skill set... and yes of course max ranks is level +3. How is it best to take the first level of Rogue at higher level - all other aspects of the character remain the same come 20 - is finite.

Artificer: 4sp + int mod (x4) bonus at level 1

Bard: 6sp + int mod (x4) bonus at level 1

Fighter: 2sp + int mod (x4) bonus at level 1

Monk: 4sp + int mod (x4) bonus at level 1

Rogue: 8sp + int mod (x4) bonus at level 1

ie. WF melee 12mk/7fighter/1something...

The difference in the 1 something being Rogue taken at level one or at a level higher come level 20 is nothing but skill points (and thus more skills with higher ranks for the vuild which too a rogue level at level one - all feating and other aspects being the same).

Monk and Arty have the same skill point pool but many differening in class skill sets (interesting concentration is an in class Arty and Monk skill, slight synergy in using up less skill point spend there for aquiring ranks) then Arty has Artificer Knowledge (+2 umd and +1 caster level on scrolls) along with construct mastery ... of course Rogue have the SA and rest of monk skills spend open to it.

So the question is do you want the same end character but less ranks across skills? Why would you?

not every build cares about having 8 different skills at useless levels. if you actually are going to be leveling up several of the rogue skills, it's worth it to take it at first level. if, as i already explained (and as you should therefore already know, considering the answer is right in the post that you quoted) if the ONLY thing you care about is the UMD, then it's best to take the level(s) later on when you can spend more of the points at a 1:1 ratio on the skill that you actually care about. you will have fewer skill points spent at 1:1 ratio overall, but you won't care because your skill points spent on the one skill that actually matters at a 1:1 ratio will be higher.

[Ancient]

Rogue at level 1 will allow for more total skill points, but sometimes if a low skill point class wants to max a few key skill points then the better answer is to take rogue later.

Here is an overly simple example.

An int dump stat half-orc fighter would like to maximize Intimidate and UMD using only single rogue splash level.

For each fighter level, they will need 3 skill points (1 for intimidate, 2 for cross class UMD). Their plan is to use a 10 base int and a +2 tome at level 7.

If Rogue is taken at level 1, they start with a skill of 4 in intimidate and UMD (and a few other things), but then can only afford half ranks in UMD until level 8 when the tome kicks in. Without another splash, the fighter will never have the spare skill points to catch up. They will not be able to max both skills.

If Rogue is taken at level 8, then the fighter starts with a skill of 4 in intimidate and 2 in UMD. The half ranks in UMD means that the UMD will be behind by 5 points at level 8. The spare rogue skill points are more than enough to catch up UMD. The future 3 points per level are enough to maintain both intimidate and UMD meaning that with this approach the fighter can have max skill ranks in both skills.

As a general rule, it is better to take Rogue at level 1... but it is not 100% always the best choice.

[Snapdragoon]

no real idea of what the class or split would be. and the main point was really what gives the best UMD boost.
although i must say that the suggestions and ideas posted give lots to think about.

and 18 ranger 1 monk 1 rogue sounds fun :P

[Wildseed]

Because you are dipping expressly for UMD , I would say rogue.
Lets assume for better reliability on a higher level player for heal/teleport scrolls for example..

Bard 6 skill points = +6 UMD +1 Focusing Chant spell = +7UMD
Artificer 4 skill points and a +2 UMD to scrolls effectively +6UMD +situational boosts +2 UMD* = +8UMD
Rogue 8 skill points = +8UMD +situational boosts +2 UMD* = +10UMD
um... huh? sorry you can't put more than 4 skill points into UMD regardless of how many skill points rogue nets you, only 4 can be put into umd... so that would be 4 plus sit boosts plus 2 possibly so that's 6 UMD... which sounds correct since they don't get the bonus to UMD arti gets

*Rogue and Artificer have access to enhancement line for skill boost to get another +2 to skills for 20 seconds (unless you are human then the human versitility blows this one away)


You may consider artificer if you like first level Artificer spells like conjure bolts which is handy on a xbow user, but otherwise the rogue is still 2 points ahead in your UMD class skill points.

Comments in red

[DrakHar]

Comments in red

They're not talking about level 1, so why would they be limited to putting 4 into UMD?

[Wildseed]

They're not talking about level 1, so why would they be limited to putting 4 into UMD?

Ahh, right you are, I was thinking at level 1 if it is another level it depends upon the level. ... as can't put more than 5 at 2...6 at 3 etc.... I did not see a level I assumed they were going to do it when it was best suited to the build at level 1 (max amount of skill points) The original post did not say a level, so I assumed level 1.

[Dragavon]

It really, really, really depends ... what are the other 19? What will the build be doing?

This.

Impossible to answer without knowing what kind of character and playstyle OP want. Each option has different strenghts