Ban the Exploiters

[LeLoric]

It's the old long term profitability over short term strip the house of piping and sell it for scrap metal profits.

My suggestions are always based upon what I think is best for the game long term.

The real harm from exploits comes from them existing for extended periods and from percieved inaction or unfair responses from the company behind the game.

Also the double incentive is to get rid of the embarrassing, but needed warning as fast as possible

Oh I agree I just don't see it happening with the load screens. It's essentially negative advertising filling up positive advertising space.

[djl]

While Turbine's QA has been admittedly pretty poor of late catching all exploitable bugs before release is a pipe dream.

Well, from what people have said BOTH exploits were reported in Lammania but not acted on. I am unsure how true that is but if it is indeed true then it is definitely something that should be changed in the future.

[Claymorep]

It's simple, really. Don't rush updates and patches when minimal testing has been done, and when people report issues on Lammania, FIX THEM before you make the update live. If they tested stuff properly and weren't in such a hurry to push out updates when they are only half-baked, these exploits wouldn't occur.

This and...

Just to remember that "the previous" bug and "this" bug were both indicated to Devs on Lammania before the official release date on live servers so they had time to stop the launch and correct the bug (but clearly preferred another way with this end).
The first one was clearly an exploit, but hard to say about this one as, moreover, it is on since the U12, before patch 1 and before patch 2 and sincerely found people using it thinking it is WAI... as something like the new scroll trading or the new bta challenge ingredients.

[LeLoric]

Well, from what people have said BOTH exploits were reported in Lammania but not acted on. I am unsure how true that is but if it is indeed true then it is definitely something that should be changed in the future.

Devs have said they never received notice of anything with the supply chest bugs. No one person has come out to say they specifically told devs of either bug it just comes out that someone told them yet there is no proof of this magical someone. Sorry evidence backs up the devs a bit here.

[djl]

Devs have said they never received notice of anything with the supply chest bugs. No one person has come out to say they specifically told devs of either bug it just comes out that someone told them yet there is no proof of this magical someone. Sorry evidence backs up the devs a bit here.

No, that's actually a good thing. I'd much rather them not know about it than them know about it and release it anyway, hoping nobody discovers it.

[Claymorep]

Devs have said they never received notice of anything with the supply chest bugs. No one person has come out to say they specifically told devs of either bug it just comes out that someone told them yet there is no proof of this magical someone. Sorry evidence backs up the devs a bit here.

On Lammania it was clearly specified by someone that I don't remember after all this time about both bugs...

Anyway as the first one was clearly specified to them it's an evidence they didn't do anything and the update hitted the live server, so the first bug is an evidence that didn't backs up Devs, exactly the opposite!

[LeLoric]

No, that's actually a good thing. I'd much rather them not know about it than them know about it and release it anyway, hoping nobody discovers it.

Knowing the pride they take in their work and wanting to put out a good game I would think the devs want to do everything possible to have a clean bug free game. Sometimes business decisions may be a hindering factor in doing this or just simple mistakes but I am pretty sure they want things to be done right and having issues like this probably is a huge embarassment for them.

[mudfud]

LOL!

So you guys finally man up and say something is an exploit AND THEN you say people CAUGHT MAY face displinary action...

Come on Turbine...Fair warning is being given.

You then need to follow it up with 'players caught will be permanently banned from the game'.

I think if they admit they can "catch" people all those people who lost "stuff" in the shared bank will be asking for there stuff back, that turbine claims to not be able to track. And that could lead to alot of explaining on turbines part about what they tell the community as a whole of not being able to track. Since essentially this is the same thing.

[LeLoric]

On Lammania it was clearly specified by someone that I don't remember after all this time about both bugs...

Anyway as the first one was clearly specified to them it's an evidence they didn't do anything and the update hitted the live server, so the first bug is an evidence that didn't backs up Devs, exactly the opposite!

No it was never posted to anything on lamannia. This is flat out wrong. It is possible something was sent in a private tell or similar but neither of these issues wrere never posted to lamannia forums.

[LeLoric]

I think if they admit they can "catch" people all those people who lost "stuff" in the shared bank will be asking for there stuff back, that turbine claims to not be able to track. And that could lead to alot of explaining on turbines part about what they tell the community as a whole of not being able to track. Since essentially this is the same thing.

This is a clearly different issue and relating the two for argument is a fallacy.

[Claymorep]

No it was never posted to anything on lamannia. This is flat out wrong. It is possible something was sent in a private tell or similar but neither of these issues wrere never posted to lamannia forums.

On Lamma forum there were clearly written by someone that he (with name and surname) sent a bug report about the first bug 3 days before the lauch, so on forum there is evidence about the bug "evidence"

[umeannothing]

This is a clearly different issue and relating the two for argument is a fallacy.

Not at all, if they can track one, and not the other, then it is a serious issue and proves they do log items in players banks and inventories.

[Claymorep]

This is a clearly different issue and relating the two for argument is a fallacy.

Not so clear as after so many negative bugs (the disappearing of items from shared or reincarnation banks included) led some "pure" players to go in rage and used this bug as a sort of compensation.

Morevover he is clear in what he is writing as it is the same mechanic to trace a stolen item and to trace a "disappeared and reappered" item.

[mudfud]

This is a clearly different issue and relating the two for argument is a fallacy.

It's the same issue but without being allowed to speak of exploits it can't be made clearer. But let me try this.
You have an ingredient bag with all your ingredients in the shared bank. It disappears. Turbine tells you that they can't replace your bag and all the stuff in your bag, since they CANNOT TRACK what is inside your bags. How is that different then saying they can catch you.
I believe that if they can catch you then they are either not doing anything about the CANNOT TRACK what's inside your ingredient bag or flat out lying saying they CANNOT TRACK what's inside the bag.
And with that being the case if they can "catch" you then all the people who lost bags in shared bank will want an explanation that turbine is not caring to give.

[RoelHeeswijk]

It is time for Turbine to man up so to speak. Turbine has a code of conduct that the playerbase is supposed to follow.

I agree with the idea, but I call ******** on that specific statement. Sorry matt. The code of conduct disallows so many things that it's a joke, they can't possibly take action based on that.
First we need rules that are more fair*, then we need to enforce those strictly.
The current situation, where Turbine has made the rules such that they have the liberty to suspend a player on any ground, but at the same time are afraid to actually do so, is pretty much the worst imaginable except for corruption. By wanting total control they lost vigor.

*and since you can't always predict the nature of bugs, they sometimes need to go public and say "this specific thing is not allowed, don't do it while we are fixing it", instead of trying to keep it silent. (well, I'm not specifically talking about this specific exploit, that was pretty clear exploiting)


edit:

We are aware of an issue where players can trade items that are normally restricted. We will be fixing this in the future, but in the meantime, please do not engage in this exploit. Players caught may face disciplinary action.

Also, just a reminder, we do not allow players to explain how exploits are done on our community sites. It's okay to vent frustration within the community guidelines, or discuss this topic in a way that does not provide detail about how an exploit is done, but if you do discuss exploit details or disciplinary action taken against you or others, you may face additional disciplinary action.

Thanks for your cooperation and understanding.

Uhm wow, yeah, kinda exactly like that, thank you Cordovan. Good to see there is at least someone on the turbine team with some sense regarding all this. A bit late and not yet very public, but still.
(Not that I agree in the slightest with the disciplinary action taken against the ones who talk about the disciplinary action that have been taken, but that's another point)

[Ungood]

(Not that I agree in the slightest with the disciplinary action taken against the ones who talk about the disciplinary action that have been taken, but that's another point)

In other words, take your beatings like a man and be quite about it.

[Chai]

I always think you give someone the benefit of the doubt when it comes to exploits, but once it is made crystal clear by Turbine you hit them with as hard a stick you got.

I think that some things are pretty clear when it comes to exploits, but on the flip side I constantly find things that are inconsistent with Turbine rulings and their explanations on particular exploits/non-exploits.

And if you can't rely upon Turbine you certainly can't rely upon your fellow players who will honestly try and convince you how some standard game mechanic is really an exploit.

So no I don't think it is just clear cut as a rule that people just know what is and is not an exploit. Most do not. That is because an exploit for all intensive purposes can be almost anything Turbine labels it to be based upon their vague description.

If we were allowed to go over these, which we are not, I would post the ones I am aware of that would be hilarious to watch someone try to deny everything, and claim they didnt know what they were doing wasnt intended.

Im up to 14 right now.

Im aware the way they wrote the rule is vague, however, most of the things people participated in over the years that was clearly not intended, they know they shouldnt be doing it. There are a few I can think of that are gray areas.

[gloopygloop]

While Turbine's QA has been admittedly pretty poor of late catching all exploitable bugs before release is a pipe dream.

Catching all of the exploitable bugs that people tell them about during the Llama preview would be good, though.

[gloopygloop]

If we were allowed to go over these, which we are not, I would post the ones I am aware of that would be hilarious to watch someone try to deny everything, and claim they didnt know what they were doing wasnt intended.

Im up to 14 right now.

Im aware the way they wrote the rule is vague, however, most of the things people participated in over the years that was clearly not intended, they know they shouldnt be doing it. There are a few I can think of that are gray areas.

Some of the exploits are just that blatant. Like the guy who was flagged as an exploiter during Mabar while he was serving in Iraq and hadn't logged on to DDO in several months.

Yes, Turbine, it's going to take a while for you to live that one down.


I'd also like to know if farming Trogs in eADQ1 is still a bannable exploit. Because I could probably kill them with my Pale Master and it would be nice to be able to use up all of my SP before I recallm summon and dismiss my hireling to reset the instance and head back in to farm up another set of 3 chests. If that's still considered an exploit, though, then I'd like to know which enemies I'm allowed to kill in eADQ1 to do my scroll farming.

[gloopygloop]

Devs have said they never received notice of anything with the supply chest bugs. No one person has come out to say they specifically told devs of either bug it just comes out that someone told them yet there is no proof of this magical someone. Sorry evidence backs up the devs a bit here.

That's actually not accurate. At least one person said that they specifically told devs of the supply chest bug when it was on Llama, but the moderators repeatedly deleted that person's posts.

They also deleted 6 of my posts where I mentioned that fact.

I think it's entirely possible that they didn't receive any official notification/bug reports/whatever because their bug reporting system is apparently buggy, but at least one person did let them know and the moderators have deleted his posts where he came out to say that.

Not classy.