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  1. #1
    Community Member Juggle's Avatar
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    Arrow **Best Rune Arm to Use (Toven's Hammer vs. Lucid Dreams)**

    Too much drama, cancelled...

  2. #2
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    you can get the benefits of both anyways, just don't invest in the full line for both.

    full investment in one = 19 points.

    7/1/1 in both = 18 points. feel free to put the remaining 1 wherever you like.

    also, "we're going to change it eventually" does not mean the change is coming any time soon. barbarian TRs got their wonky past life for months. those using dual concordant opposition (item + weapon) have in some cases been able to use it for years, and continue to still be able to use it from what i've heard.

    also, on a side note...

    toven's caps at 4 blasts, lucid dreams caps at 5. depending on your target (for example, whether or not you're hitting a raid boss with no friends or a huge group of devils), lucid dreams will actually have the equivalent to a 1.25 damage buff (that is, you get 1.25 bolts per full charge with lucid dreams for every 1 bolt you get from toven's hammer) which is obviously higher than the 1.15 damage buff available to lightning

  3. #3
    Community Member Juggle's Avatar
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    /ok

  4. #4
    Community Member Juggle's Avatar
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    /ok

  5. #5
    Community Member sacredguyver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyAlliance View Post
    -Not able to put transform kinetic energy on it or +2 exceptional intelligence and no lightning strike weapons either, which at least to me, makes me feel like I’m missing out on things
    If you're talking about the upgrade items, there is supposed to be a new chest in Master Artificer for doing the optional that has a chance to drop both pieces. Haven't checked yet myself, or heard otherwise, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by macubrae View Post
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  6. #6
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyAlliance View Post
    Dual conc opp is working as intended, you may use 1acc and 2 weapons for conc opp and they will all stack. just as if you were to use 1 lightning guard acc and 2 litII weapons...
    so far as i know, there are actual dev posts stating that this is not the case. both effects are essentially the same. it is not like lightning strike + lightning guard, it's more like double lightning guard, because weapon con-op doesn't proc when you attack, rather it procs when you are hit.

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyAlliance View Post
    I know this, read the OP thanks. It's a toss-up between the two this shows the benefits of both and so on. Move on.
    if you know it, you didn't say it. nothing in the OP mentions toven capping at 4 blasts (iirc it's 2/2/3/4/4 blasts at the various tiers). you did mention AOE, but the number of blasts was nowhere in your OP.

    Quote Originally Posted by sacredguyver View Post
    If you're talking about the upgrade items, there is supposed to be a new chest in Master Artificer for doing the optional that has a chance to drop both pieces. Haven't checked yet myself, or heard otherwise, though.
    that con was referring to lucid dreams. not to toven's hammer. his point was that lucid dreams will never get those two awesome abilities.

  7. #7
    Community Member Juggle's Avatar
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    /ok

  8. #8
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyAlliance View Post
    To quickly bust a rumor that may or may not still be going around, the Toven’s Hammer lightning strike weapons paired with a GS Lightning Strike weapons does NOT stack.
    Funny everything I have read and the screen shots I have seen would indicate that this is incorrect.

    You can't bust a rumor by asserting something is true without evidence.

    As for some dev said something...I think I will wait for a dev to actually state what the intended behaior is.
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  9. #9
    Community Member Juggle's Avatar
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    Alright

  10. #10
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyAlliance View Post
    Dual conc opp is working as intended, you may use 1acc and 2 weapons for conc opp and they will all stack. just as if you were to use 1 lightning guard acc and 2 litII weapons...
    The last developer quote about this was from Eladrin. He specifically said if it did work that way it was a bug and subject to possible change.

    Feel free to dig up a quote from a dev that shows this has changed if I missed it.

    Oh and classifying something as a bug means it is not working as intended.
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  11. #11
    Community Member Absolute-Omniscience's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyAlliance View Post
    Sorry I left out some beginner information for you. Don't make this a mess just because you feel like trolling...move on.
    I call BS. If you actually knew about it you would have listed it either under toven's cons or under Lucid's pros.
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  12. #12
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyAlliance View Post
    Sorry, but this is the way that it works.
    yes, but not the way it is supposed to according to the devs.

    Sorry I left out some beginner information for you. Don't make this a mess just because you feel like trolling...move on.
    here's the wiki entry for toven's hammer.
    here is the one for lucid dreams.

    feel free to tell me where in those descriptions it mentions the actual number of bolts fired by either of them. it is not stated anywhere, it is not immediately obvious that toven's hammer only has 4 bolts at tier 5 charge, and you didn't mention this very significant piece of information in your post which supposedly is supposed to help people decide which rune arm to use. it is a significant DPS boost which you have not taken into account, one which is larger than the DPS boost from an infusion that you specifically mentioned as providing an advantage to toven's hammer.

    providing useful and relevant information is not trolling. you may not like it that i'm pointing out places where your guide is lacking. too bad. you would do better to update your OP to include that information than to whine and complain about those who provide the information your OP did not provide.

  13. #13
    Community Member Juggle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    Funny everything I have read and the screen shots I have seen would indicate that this is incorrect.

    You can't bust a rumor by asserting something is true without evidence.

    As for some dev said something...I think I will wait for a dev to actually state what the intended behaior is.
    Okay well you can be certain that it will be fixed, so do whatever you would like

  14. #14
    Community Member Juggle's Avatar
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    Alrighty

  15. #15
    Community Member Juggle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    The last developer quote about this was from Eladrin. He specifically said if it did work that way it was a bug and subject to possible change.

    Feel free to dig up a quote from a dev that shows this has changed if I missed it.

    Oh and classifying something as a bug means it is not working as intended.
    Yeah as I stated in the OP, it may currently work, but you can bank on them fixing it. Let's keep moving away from my actual point. This is for anyone with an artificer trying to establish which runearm to use and that's it. All you people are doing is picking out one sentence and blowing it out of proportion. This is just a helpful post that's all.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaid314 View Post
    7/1/1 in both = 18 points. feel free to put the remaining 1 wherever you like.
    This. The added damage for crit lines beyond the first point is so marginal that having the flexibility to use Lucid for bosses or other single-target scenarios and Toven's for AoE trash cleanup is just better.
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  17. #17
    Community Member djsonar919's Avatar
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    I always find post like these humorous. The reason why this is funny to me is that each Rune Arm has it's particular place to shine. Each Rune Arm does something good at various situations. To me, an argument like this is along the same lines as an argument between Niacs Biting Cold versus Electric Surge. Both are extremely powerful when all the correct enhancements are taken. Both work well in various situations. Both are dependent on the person who casts them. I don't believe it's wrong to start threads like these. To me it's like comparing apples and oranges.
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  18. #18
    Community Member Juggle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djsonar919 View Post
    I always find post like these humorous. The reason why this is funny to me is that each Rune Arm has it's particular place to shine. Each Rune Arm does something good at various situations. To me, an argument like this is along the same lines as an argument between Niacs Biting Cold versus Electric Surge. Both are extremely powerful when all the correct enhancements are taken. Both work well in various situations. Both are dependent on the person who casts them. I don't believe it's wrong to start threads like these. To me it's like comparing apples and oranges.
    If you actually read it, you'd see that I am, in fact, showing people how to use both.

  19. #19
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyAlliance View Post
    Yeah as I stated in the OP, it may currently work, but you can bank on them fixing it.
    You do realize that the post you responded to was about your assertion that CO stacks and is WAI with the WAI assertion meant to refute another posters pont right?
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  20. #20
    Community Member Dark-Star's Avatar
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    So much misinformation in this thread.

    To quickly bust a rumor that may or may not still be going around, the Toven’s Hammer lightning strike weapons paired with a GS Lightning Strike weapons does NOT stack.
    LS2 + LS2, they do indeed stack contrary to the OP. I posted proof and results of my testing in another thread. To state otherwise is misleading the community and patently false.

    As to your assertion that you talked to a dev, someone I know also talked to a dev who told him it was WAI (this was U11-ish).

    More false claims:

    Dual conc opp is working as intended, you may use 1acc and 2 weapons for conc opp and they will all stack
    Stacking rule for con-op is 1 item + one weapon, period. This has been unequivocally proven in the monsterously long con-op thread from some years ago. I personally did some of that testing.

    As to the point of the thread: 7/1/1 x2, and use both situationally is the best way to go.
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