**Best Rune Arm to Use (Toven's Hammer vs. Lucid Dreams)**

[Juggle]

Too much drama, cancelled...

[Jaid314]

you can get the benefits of both anyways, just don't invest in the full line for both.

full investment in one = 19 points.

7/1/1 in both = 18 points. feel free to put the remaining 1 wherever you like.

also, "we're going to change it eventually" does not mean the change is coming any time soon. barbarian TRs got their wonky past life for months. those using dual concordant opposition (item + weapon) have in some cases been able to use it for years, and continue to still be able to use it from what i've heard.

also, on a side note...

toven's caps at 4 blasts, lucid dreams caps at 5. depending on your target (for example, whether or not you're hitting a raid boss with no friends or a huge group of devils), lucid dreams will actually have the equivalent to a 1.25 damage buff (that is, you get 1.25 bolts per full charge with lucid dreams for every 1 bolt you get from toven's hammer) which is obviously higher than the 1.15 damage buff available to lightning

[Juggle]

/ok

[Cyr]

Dual conc opp is working as intended, you may use 1acc and 2 weapons for conc opp and they will all stack. just as if you were to use 1 lightning guard acc and 2 litII weapons...

The last developer quote about this was from Eladrin. He specifically said if it did work that way it was a bug and subject to possible change.

Feel free to dig up a quote from a dev that shows this has changed if I missed it.

Oh and classifying something as a bug means it is not working as intended.

[Juggle]

The last developer quote about this was from Eladrin. He specifically said if it did work that way it was a bug and subject to possible change.

Feel free to dig up a quote from a dev that shows this has changed if I missed it.

Oh and classifying something as a bug means it is not working as intended.

Yeah as I stated in the OP, it may currently work, but you can bank on them fixing it. Let's keep moving away from my actual point. This is for anyone with an artificer trying to establish which runearm to use and that's it. All you people are doing is picking out one sentence and blowing it out of proportion. This is just a helpful post that's all.

[Cyr]

Yeah as I stated in the OP, it may currently work, but you can bank on them fixing it.

You do realize that the post you responded to was about your assertion that CO stacks and is WAI with the WAI assertion meant to refute another posters pont right?

[Juggle]

/ok

[MRMechMan]

I know this, read the OP thanks. It's a toss-up between the two this shows the benefits of both and so on. Move on.

Classy, I like it.




But seriously, if someone points out a HUGE oversight on your part, just take it like a man and admit you forgot something...it's pretty obvious what happened-you DID NOT assume the reader knew the 4 vs 5 shots like you said...you just forgot it.

Don't try and blame the reader because YOU messed up. Have at least some honesty, anyone can edit their posts to try and make someone look bad when it is actually THEIR fault.

[cforce]

7/1/1 in both = 18 points. feel free to put the remaining 1 wherever you like.

This. The added damage for crit lines beyond the first point is so marginal that having the flexibility to use Lucid for bosses or other single-target scenarios and Toven's for AoE trash cleanup is just better.

[sacredguyver]

-Not able to put transform kinetic energy on it or +2 exceptional intelligence and no lightning strike weapons either, which at least to me, makes me feel like I’m missing out on things

If you're talking about the upgrade items, there is supposed to be a new chest in Master Artificer for doing the optional that has a chance to drop both pieces. Haven't checked yet myself, or heard otherwise, though.

[Juggle]

/ok

[Jaid314]

Dual conc opp is working as intended, you may use 1acc and 2 weapons for conc opp and they will all stack. just as if you were to use 1 lightning guard acc and 2 litII weapons...

so far as i know, there are actual dev posts stating that this is not the case. both effects are essentially the same. it is not like lightning strike + lightning guard, it's more like double lightning guard, because weapon con-op doesn't proc when you attack, rather it procs when you are hit.

I know this, read the OP thanks. It's a toss-up between the two this shows the benefits of both and so on. Move on.

if you know it, you didn't say it. nothing in the OP mentions toven capping at 4 blasts (iirc it's 2/2/3/4/4 blasts at the various tiers). you did mention AOE, but the number of blasts was nowhere in your OP.

If you're talking about the upgrade items, there is supposed to be a new chest in Master Artificer for doing the optional that has a chance to drop both pieces. Haven't checked yet myself, or heard otherwise, though.

that con was referring to lucid dreams. not to toven's hammer. his point was that lucid dreams will never get those two awesome abilities.

[Juggle]

Alright

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Sorry I left out some beginner information for you. Don't make this a mess just because you feel like trolling...move on.

I call BS. If you actually knew about it you would have listed it either under toven's cons or under Lucid's pros.

[Juggle]

Alrighty

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Oh please I just typed this thread up when I was at a coffee shop being bored sorry if I left out ONE CON....get out of here.

If you intent to flame every poster who points something out, and be unbelievably stuck-up about it; you can count on being nitpicked.

[Jaid314]

Sorry, but this is the way that it works.

yes, but not the way it is supposed to according to the devs.

Sorry I left out some beginner information for you. Don't make this a mess just because you feel like trolling...move on.

here's the wiki entry for toven's hammer.
here is the one for lucid dreams.

feel free to tell me where in those descriptions it mentions the actual number of bolts fired by either of them. it is not stated anywhere, it is not immediately obvious that toven's hammer only has 4 bolts at tier 5 charge, and you didn't mention this very significant piece of information in your post which supposedly is supposed to help people decide which rune arm to use. it is a significant DPS boost which you have not taken into account, one which is larger than the DPS boost from an infusion that you specifically mentioned as providing an advantage to toven's hammer.

providing useful and relevant information is not trolling. you may not like it that i'm pointing out places where your guide is lacking. too bad. you would do better to update your OP to include that information than to whine and complain about those who provide the information your OP did not provide.

[Adrenas]

yes, but not the way it is supposed to according to the devs.



here's the wiki entry for toven's hammer.
here is the one for lucid dreams.

feel free to tell me where in those descriptions it mentions the actual number of bolts fired by either of them. it is not stated anywhere, it is not immediately obvious that toven's hammer only has 4 bolts at tier 5 charge, and you didn't mention this very significant piece of information in your post which supposedly is supposed to help people decide which rune arm to use. it is a significant DPS boost which you have not taken into account, one which is larger than the DPS boost from an infusion that you specifically mentioned as providing an advantage to toven's hammer.

providing useful and relevant information is not trolling. you may not like it that i'm pointing out places where your guide is lacking. too bad. you would do better to update your OP to include that information than to whine and complain about those who provide the information your OP did not provide.

I'll drop in some more info on Toven's that isn't in the wiki. The lightning blasts all come out one behind the next in a straight line, unlike lucid dreams with the spread of charges. Truth is that that is one of Lucid Dreams biggest cons, the spread is so wide that the extra bolt it has over toven's isn't going to hit in many situations. Toven's always blasts straight ahead. Of course on many bosses the room is big enough (or you can get close enough) that all bolts from Lucid Dreams will hit.

In my honest opinion the rune arm enhancement lines need to be removed and the same benefits gained via granted feats at various levels. The arti class is too AP starved right now imo and if tier 2 and 3 prestige are ever added then points will have to come out of vital enhancements to get them. Arti's should have great rune arm ability without the AP, unlike with buffing say a bow or a blade.. you actually have to know what you're doing and put some effort into properly using the rune arm. Or maybe they could just make the arti electricity spells not completely suck and not have horrible DC?

In reading this thread I noticed that FAR more time was spent nit-picking and insulting the OP (and the OP returning the favor) than actually discussing which is the better rune arm or how to spec for them. That's shameful and you should feel ashamed for it, especially considering that the topic of the post is a very good question that is up for debate.

[Cyr]

To quickly bust a rumor that may or may not still be going around, the Toven’s Hammer lightning strike weapons paired with a GS Lightning Strike weapons does NOT stack.

Funny everything I have read and the screen shots I have seen would indicate that this is incorrect.

You can't bust a rumor by asserting something is true without evidence.

As for some dev said something...I think I will wait for a dev to actually state what the intended behaior is.

[Juggle]

Funny everything I have read and the screen shots I have seen would indicate that this is incorrect.

You can't bust a rumor by asserting something is true without evidence.

As for some dev said something...I think I will wait for a dev to actually state what the intended behaior is.

Okay well you can be certain that it will be fixed, so do whatever you would like